The TO(s) make a competitive and balanced list for each faction. The list may be complete or allow for a percentage of points to be selected by each participant. The lists are then placed in a sealed envelope and kept until the start of the tournament. Each player then selects a faction and receives the envelope which corresponds to that faction just prior to starting their match. Now each player has a list which they did not create and may have little to no experience with. After each round the players receive a new sealed list. All the ships and all the cards are now in play. Each player plays by his wits and his skill and we know who the best pilots truly are. Or am I crazy?

Let's say you're the TO, what squads do you build for each faction?

So, kinda like a Chinese Fire Drill X-Wing tournament?

What squads you build are up to you. The lists aren't the important part. The balance between the three factions lists is. Personally I would seek for a way to incorporate as many of the little used elements as possible. Honestly, I'm drastically under qualified to be a TO. But not under qualified to have ideas.

I thought the TO had to make the lists and we would get like a few points here for adjustments? Am I not reading it right?

Yes, sorry I was speaking in the last comment in the capacity of a TO. The TO selects the Complete list or 90/100 points for example but the point is no one knows ahead of time what they will play or what their opponent will play. It comes down to the true overall skill of the player not simply mastery of a single list or predicting a favorable matchup correctly.

So who provides the dials cards and minis. Would suck if I drew a list I don' t own.

Assumes that all players have all the requiste parts (unless the TO provides the pieces) and that the lists the TO makes are perfectly balanced against each other.

The TO could provide some broad parameters such as this tournament may contain up to 3 B Wings, 2 A Wings, etc... While this could be an problem I suspect that vast majority of the competitive players have extensive ship libraries. If people truly fly casual then loaning a ship to a player who may be short one should be a non-issue.

The TOs lists don't have to be perfectly balanced, just closely balanced. I think perfect balance in a game with so many different parts and skills is an illusion. Some players play in tournaments with 99 or 98 point lists. Those are not perfectly balanced with 100 point lists but it still happens.

Well half of the fun for me is building your list and seeing how it does against the competition. Not knowing how your card may work of realizing later how they work seems at bit like a mess too if your squad is a bunch of stuff you have not used or are familiar with, I think there are some random list generator that would make for some crazy fun games but not for a tournament setting.

we do this with random squads generated by fab's squadron builder. ITS SO FUN.

Well half of the fun for me is building your list and seeing how it does against the competition. Not knowing how your card may work of realizing later how they work seems at bit like a mess too if your squad is a bunch of stuff you have not used or are familiar with, I think there are some random list generator that would make for some crazy fun games but not for a tournament setting.

That is exactly the point. For players to step outside of single lists, learn the game (in its entirety), learn all the ships and learn the upgrades too. You may get something you don't know and aren't familiar with but you'll be a more well rounded player for it.

Well half of the fun for me is building your list and seeing how it does against the competition. Not knowing how your card may work of realizing later how they work seems at bit like a mess too if your squad is a bunch of stuff you have not used or are familiar with, I think there are some random list generator that would make for some crazy fun games but not for a tournament setting.

That is exactly the point. For players to step outside of single lists, learn the game (in its entirety), learn all the ships and learn the upgrades too. You may get something you don't know and aren't familiar with but you'll be a more well rounded player for it.

Something something different perspectives eh? =P

I actually did that the first time I organised a little friendly tournament at home. I was the one introducing the game to my friends so the first to buy in. Since not everyone had their stuff, I created 6 team with what I had (3 rebels, 3 imperials). Before the tournament begun, everyone picked a team at random and had to use it for all the tournament.

It's a very friendly formula if you don't want to scare a new player away with top-tier build. Not like another tournament I organised where everyone was playing a turret...

Well half of the fun for me is building your list and seeing how it does against the competition. Not knowing how your card may work of realizing later how they work seems at bit like a mess too if your squad is a bunch of stuff you have not used or are familiar with, I think there are some random list generator that would make for some crazy fun games but not for a tournament setting.

That is exactly the point. For players to step outside of single lists, learn the game (in its entirety), learn all the ships and learn the upgrades too. You may get something you don't know and aren't familiar with but you'll be a more well rounded player for it.

I already have a pretty good understanding of the ships and upgrades in the game, but list-building is part of the game and it's a huge part of my enjoyment. I wouldn't be interested in a tournament format that takes that away from me.

I did something similar that was a LOT of fun, it was a kind of "secret santa" tournament. It was assumed everyone had 1 of every ship (which most do), and we drew names out of a hat and "gifted" people a pilot to use. If it was a generic, you had your choice of that ship's generics. You then built a squad on the spot using that ship. We did this tournament for a spring kit and I made sure all 8 people got something, plus two PTL cards. Tons of fun!

I also like list building, but I think your idea could work for a smaller, quicker tournament or a Furball. But I wouldn't want to randomly play lists that I didn't have at least a little customizing to. Maybe if your list was 70-80 points of ships and you let people customize from there?

It's IROC X-wing! lol

Well half of the fun for me is building your list and seeing how it does against the competition. Not knowing how your card may work of realizing later how they work seems at bit like a mess too if your squad is a bunch of stuff you have not used or are familiar with, I think there are some random list generator that would make for some crazy fun games but not for a tournament setting.

That is exactly the point. For players to step outside of single lists, learn the game (in its entirety), learn all the ships and learn the upgrades too. You may get something you don't know and aren't familiar with but you'll be a more well rounded player for it.

I already have a pretty good understanding of the ships and upgrades in the game, but list-building is part of the game and it's a huge part of my enjoyment. I wouldn't be interested in a tournament format that takes that away from me.

Vorpal I don't know you so I'm not sure what type of individual lists you play in tournaments or if you even play in tournaments at all? However the current tournament list selection paradigm seems to be about 75% of, first, eliminate Scum, then do I use BBBBZ or a fat turret? Most of the time that's as creative as tournament list building gets. Maybe you're one of the few the proud X(izor)YYZ tourney players?

The TO(s) make a competitive and balanced list for each faction. The list may be complete or allow for a percentage of points to be selected by each participant. The lists are then placed in a sealed envelope and kept until the start of the tournament. Each player then selects a faction and receives the envelope which corresponds to that faction just prior to starting their match. Now each player has a list which they did not create and may have little to no experience with. After each round the players receive a new sealed list. All the ships and all the cards are now in play. Each player plays by his wits and his skill and we know who the best pilots truly are. Or am I crazy?

Totally crazy. Instead of getting to build what I want and practice with it, I could end up with ships I've never flown while my opponent lucks into something he flies all the time. Sounds totally fair.

I would be the best TO for this... Everyone gets to fly either 6 spice runners or 6 rebel operatives.

The TO(s) make a competitive and balanced list for each faction. The list may be complete or allow for a percentage of points to be selected by each participant. The lists are then placed in a sealed envelope and kept until the start of the tournament. Each player then selects a faction and receives the envelope which corresponds to that faction just prior to starting their match. Now each player has a list which they did not create and may have little to no experience with. After each round the players receive a new sealed list. All the ships and all the cards are now in play. Each player plays by his wits and his skill and we know who the best pilots truly are. Or am I crazy?

Totally crazy. Instead of getting to build what I want and practice with it, I could end up with ships I've never flown while my opponent lucks into something he flies all the time. Sounds totally fair.

Let's just have everyone fly the same exact ships in every tournament that way it's completely fair. While we're at it lets make every die roll the exact average so that's totally fair too. It's not "fair" that Heaver is better than you and I (and everyone else) or that occasionally the dice crap on you (or your opponent). On a more serious note part of the function of this is to have lists (ships and upgrade cards and pilots) who rarely, if ever, get used or to use them in combinations we don't see. I picture a good TOs lists being something that very few people if any have flown before. Otacon even if that did happen you would become a better more well rounded player for it. Sometimes losses are where we make the most progress.

Sounds fun! Neat idea!

So that fun part where you build the list... you don't get to do that part.

The TO(s) make a competitive and balanced list for each faction. The list may be complete or allow for a percentage of points to be selected by each participant. The lists are then placed in a sealed envelope and kept until the start of the tournament. Each player then selects a faction and receives the envelope which corresponds to that faction just prior to starting their match. Now each player has a list which they did not create and may have little to no experience with. After each round the players receive a new sealed list. All the ships and all the cards are now in play. Each player plays by his wits and his skill and we know who the best pilots truly are. Or am I crazy?

Totally crazy. Instead of getting to build what I want and practice with it, I could end up with ships I've never flown while my opponent lucks into something he flies all the time. Sounds totally fair.

I am pretty sure he was talking about a casual tournament idea, for fun, not for "FFG Official Competitive play". All I am saying is, it isn't meant to be "fair" for everyone, but just a fun idea, and would be neat when players are forced to play Under-Dog squads and win an event with them.