Here's a real question: Enhanced Armament for the extra die, or those Turbolasers that prevent more than 1 damage from being redirected?

Extra dice are extra dice, which give a 7/8ths expected damage return.

But preventing redirects from using useless shield sections as ablative HP means your damage (and crits) get through to hull faster.

Hmmmmmmmm...

Personally I have a thing for x17s. I'd rather most my damage go where I point it then the *chance* of doing +1 damage that's just going to be redirected.

Here's a real question: Enhanced Armament for the extra die, or those Turbolasers that prevent more than 1 damage from being redirected?

Extra dice are extra dice, which give a 7/8ths expected damage return.

But preventing redirects from using useless shield sections as ablative HP means your damage (and crits) get through to hull faster.

Hmmmmmmmm...

I hope everybody will agree to keep this thread clean of off-topic.

* * *

I planned to buy an Assault Frigate because I like both the model (sic!) and variety. I really like the model rules-wise and the more I think about it the more reasons I find to include it in the list.

- It's fast;

- It's durable;

- It has good broadsides that can be further increased by enhanced armament card;

- It has the highest squadron capacity AND offensive retrofit slot for expanded hangar bay;

- It's also the cheapest way to increase fleet's squadron capacity;

- It has good titles;

My question is: is there a good reason to not include it into the Rebel list?

A good reason, no not a good reason, but my reason is that the space guppy is fugly. Each to his own taste of course, but I like it even less having seen more close up shots of that thing.

So what does everyone think about:

Mk. II B + Raymus Antilles + Expanded Hangar Bay + Flight Controllers

You're activating 6 squadrons every turn with the Squadron command, and if they're attacking as part of the command, they get +1 dice each.

Neb titles and CR90 numbers/Big-D's pride I'd imagine

So what does everyone think about:

Mk. II B + Raymus Antilles + Expanded Hangar Bay + Flight Controllers

You're activating 6 squadrons every turn with the Squadron command, and if they're attacking as part of the command, they get +1 dice each.

Is the assault frigate's squadron value higer than in the previews? In the previews it had asquadron rating of 3 on the b version. So with expanded hangars and a squadron token you're looking at 5 squadrons activating right?

So what does everyone think about:

Mk. II B + Raymus Antilles + Expanded Hangar Bay + Flight Controllers

You're activating 6 squadrons every turn with the Squadron command, and if they're attacking as part of the command, they get +1 dice each.

Is the assault frigate's squadron value higer than in the previews? In the previews it had asquadron rating of 3 on the b version. So with expanded hangars and a squadron token you're looking at 5 squadrons activating right?

Thought the token was half.

If so that'd equal 6, if not then it's 5 and the 1 squadron is no great loss.

token is half engineering, 1 squadron

Here's a real question: Enhanced Armament for the extra die, or those Turbolasers that prevent more than 1 damage from being redirected?

Extra dice are extra dice, which give a 7/8ths expected damage return.

But preventing redirects from using useless shield sections as ablative HP means your damage (and crits) get through to hull faster.

Hmmmmmmmm...

I would say it depends on your enemies fleet, setup, complementing upgrades and so on.. its not flat out T17s or enhanced armament all the way. In my opinion, the usefulness of T17s diminishes with the increasing amount of reds (or blues) you gather, and even more so in case you have the intel officer equipped. Using the intel officer on one redirect token means you are only needing one accuracy result to keep even a VSD from redirecting at all - or to lose one token permanently. Next point, how much fire can you focus on one section over the course of the game? For the T17s you probably want to target a side section to start eating away shields asap. With enhanced armament the sweetest spot is at the rear, with shots fired to the side sections to reduce shield facings your enemy may redirect to. Theres a ton of more questions to this, planned path of approach, what to do with your second attack, enemies fleet composition..

For myself, I will go with enhanced armaments first, simply because I like to gather MOAR dice. It also may have a nice psychological effect on enemies when you repeatedly ask him where the fifth red die went ..

There is an upgrade that allows redirects to be on any shield facing. Not just the adjacent ones. Watch for that.

There is an upgrade that allows redirects to be on any shield facing. Not just the adjacent ones. Watch for that.

Which so far can only be taken on the Corvette and the Assault Frigate in the defensive retrofit slot. Its an interesting balance as taking Advanced Projectors supercharges your redirect at the cost of passing up on accuracy negation via Electronic Counter Measures. As those two ships only have a single redirect token I'm not sure about the viability of a 6 point upgrade that can be shut down by a very common dice result. Give me that slot on a ship with multiple re-directs like a Victory though and I would Advanced projectors all day every day.

You mean like the ISD will likely have?

While Accuracy rolls are common, they may not always choose the redirect (depends on range really) being able to shunt some shield damage from a all black attack would save many ships.

I think the x17 and the neb b + damage title are the better combo. With a neb you are most likely to be firing at the same facing, whereas the af2 can circle their prey.

There is an upgrade that allows redirects to be on any shield facing. Not just the adjacent ones. Watch for that.

Which so far can only be taken on the Corvette and the Assault Frigate in the defensive retrofit slot. Its an interesting balance as taking Advanced Projectors supercharges your redirect at the cost of passing up on accuracy negation via Electronic Counter Measures. As those two ships only have a single redirect token I'm not sure about the viability of a 6 point upgrade that can be shut down by a very common dice result. Give me that slot on a ship with multiple re-directs like a Victory though and I would Advanced projectors all day every day.

All ships except for the vic have both the problem and the benefit of having a single def token of each type. Problem because an enemy can pretty reliably deny you the most valuable token for any instance, be it with accuracy or the intel officer (who is also not affected by electronic countermeasures in any way..) . Benefit because you potentially may use all tokens for the same attack, negating more total damage than the VSD could.

You forgot the CR90 and it's two evades. There is also the Nebs two braces

I think my go to ship for Wave 1 is going to be an MKIIA with Raymus and Enhanced Armament. That beast can easily put out 5 Red's with a re-roll at long range. Anyone have any thoughts on the best way to support it? Should I try to cram as many corvettes in as possible or beef up on the squads?

You forgot the CR90 and it's two evades. There is also the Nebs two braces

**** space whale is the only wave 1 ship with one of everything

it just has to be a rebel...

but wait! so does the gladiator!

I smell a traitor...

I think my go to ship for Wave 1 is going to be an MKIIA with Raymus and Enhanced Armament. That beast can easily put out 5 Red's with a re-roll at long range. Anyone have any thoughts on the best way to support it? Should I try to cram as many corvettes in as possible or beef up on the squads?

Perhaps. But until you go in deeper and show those similarities, I can't take analogies as a proper guide. It is a bit like: A bread and a cake are both baked, the cake is developed from the bread, thus it is a good idea to do icing on bread.

I tried it once and it was freaking delicious!

I think my go to ship for Wave 1 is going to be an MKIIA with Raymus and Enhanced Armament. That beast can easily put out 5 Red's with a re-roll at long range. Anyone have any thoughts on the best way to support it? Should I try to cram as many corvettes in as possible or beef up on the squads?

How about...

AFMkIIB w/ XI7 Turbolasers, Gen. Dodonna

AFMkIIB w/ Enhanced Armament, Raymus Antilles

Neb-B Support w/ Salvation, XX-9 Turbolasers

2 A-wings, 2 X-wings

Comes to 298 points. I don't know that I am completely in love with this as a good supporting cast, but I'm definitely going to give it a go this weekend. Thinking about objectives as well. Advanced Gunnery, Fleet Ambush and.... Dangerous Territory? Dangerous Territory specifically to try to take advantage of obstacle placement - and then ignore them all as I try to kite and lean on the MkII broadsides at range. Advanced Gunnery (which I feel is not going to be selected often) to make Raymus' broadside even more potent, and then Fleet Ambush to try to have an early isolated target for the space whales.

If I had any confidence that Advanced Gunnery would ever be chosen, I think I would shift whatever I had to in order to make Raymus' MkII the Paragon. I don't know that I'd often have initiative with 298 though!

I think my go to ship for Wave 1 is going to be an MKIIA with Raymus and Enhanced Armament. That beast can easily put out 5 Red's with a re-roll at long range. Anyone have any thoughts on the best way to support it? Should I try to cram as many corvettes in as possible or beef up on the squads?

How about...

AFMkIIB w/ XI7 Turbolasers, Gen. Dodonna

AFMkIIB w/ Enhanced Armament, Raymus Antilles

Neb-B Support w/ Salvation, XX-9 Turbolasers

2 A-wings, 2 X-wings

Comes to 298 points. I don't know that I am completely in love with this as a good supporting cast, but I'm definitely going to give it a go this weekend. Thinking about objectives as well. Advanced Gunnery, Fleet Ambush and.... Dangerous Territory? Dangerous Territory specifically to try to take advantage of obstacle placement - and then ignore them all as I try to kite and lean on the MkII broadsides at range. Advanced Gunnery (which I feel is not going to be selected often) to make Raymus' broadside even more potent, and then Fleet Ambush to try to have an early isolated target for the space whales.

If I had any confidence that Advanced Gunnery would ever be chosen, I think I would shift whatever I had to in order to make Raymus' MkII the Paragon. I don't know that I'd often have initiative with 298 though!

I like it. Although have you thought about dropping the X-Wing to A-Wings. The A-Wings are faster and more reliable doing damage to ships. That would let you upgrade the XX-9 to XI7. It also looks like you just want to leave your opponent a smoldering wreck.

I don't know about Advanced Gunnery. I know most imps would jump at the chance to use that objective. Maybe try opening salvo since you have such great long distance firepower? Or maybe most wanted and just run with your bojective ship? I'd also stay away from Fleet Ambush just because of the Corrupter and Rhymer combo. Fleet ambush just makes that first turn alpha very killer. Instead of Dangerous Territory maybe try superior positions. Unless you take some corvettes I'm not very confident that Rebels play navigation very well (Corvettes are awesome at navigation though).

Paragon is also a little hard to pull off with the arcs on the MKII. Your ship selection looks solid and most of my critique is just in the details objectives so hopefully its helpful.

I was thinking about running the following:

CR90A w/Dodonna, Jaina's Light

CR90A w/ Leia

CR90B w/Dodonna's Pride

MKIIA w/Raymus, Enhanced Armament

4x A-Wing

Objectives:

Opening Salvo (awesome when you outnumber your opponent (4 ships might be enough), and its more likely that the opening shots happen at long range so I can get use out of the evade token to lessen damage back.

Hyperspace Assault

Superior Positions (just for positioning superiority and the possibility of getting a bunch of rear shots with corvettes)

I prefer the Corvettes over the Nebs just because the arcs are way more forgiving and more likely to bring the side and front arc to bear on the same target on top of better speed and maneuverability. Salvation thought has me questioning my choices...

I like it. Although have you thought about dropping the X-Wing to A-Wings. The A-Wings are faster and more reliable doing damage to ships. That would let you upgrade the XX-9 to XI7. It also looks like you just want to leave your opponent a smoldering wreck.

I don't know about Advanced Gunnery. I know most imps would jump at the chance to use that objective. Maybe try opening salvo since you have such great long distance firepower? Or maybe most wanted and just run with your bojective ship? I'd also stay away from Fleet Ambush just because of the Corrupter and Rhymer combo. Fleet ambush just makes that first turn alpha very killer. Instead of Dangerous Territory maybe try superior positions. Unless you take some corvettes I'm not very confident that Rebels play navigation very well (Corvettes are awesome at navigation though).

Paragon is also a little hard to pull off with the arcs on the MKII. Your ship selection looks solid and most of my critique is just in the details objectives so hopefully its helpful.

I was thinking about running the following:

CR90A w/Dodonna, Jaina's Light

CR90A w/ Leia

CR90B w/Dodonna's Pride

MKIIA w/Raymus, Enhanced Armament

4x A-Wing

Objectives:

Opening Salvo (awesome when you outnumber your opponent (4 ships might be enough), and its more likely that the opening shots happen at long range so I can get use out of the evade token to lessen damage back.

Hyperspace Assault

Superior Positions (just for positioning superiority and the possibility of getting a bunch of rear shots with corvettes)

I prefer the Corvettes over the Nebs just because the arcs are way more forgiving and more likely to bring the side and front arc to bear on the same target on top of better speed and maneuverability. Salvation thought has me questioning my choices...

I don't know why I didn't default to four A-wings... I guess sometimes I can cling to the bomber keyword in a Dodonna fleet even if only a pair of X-wings may not have any impact at all over the course of a game. I think I prefer that change and stick with the A-wings flying strictly as a screen who can contribute attacks on enemy ships in the best case scenarios.

I thought about the fighter flexibility of Corrputer and Yavaris builds - both would be very deadly to walk into with a Fleet Ambush objective. I am intersted in seeing how Corrupter and Yavaris play out, they seem like they would be shoe-ins for strong lists but I can't get a sense on where squadrons are going to land in terms of importance.

The other part of your list that I absolutely love and would love to incorporate would be a CR90A with Leia and Jaina's Light. I do not like to think about 400 points when we know next to nothing of Wave 2, but *if* I was playing a 400 point Wave 1 match, that would be my first addition. Keep her near one of the space whales to always be able to correct a command, and let her hide behind it and snipe with a few dice here and there while maintaining the obstructed debuff for any return fire from that target.

I think Superior Positions is a great objective in your list with all of those Corvettes - the worry in my own would be about how often that speed-3 whale would actually get around something. I also like Hyperspace Assault - I think I like it better in a list like yours with four ships - but it remains very much in the running with my own list. I am trying to think more in terms of facing possible mirror matches lately - which is trouble for me. My brain always starts at "vs. the Empire" even though the only place where that is a guaranteed matchup is at home games.

So actually, making the adjustments you recommend, I go down to 295 points. So now I am free to try Paragon if I really wanted to, or perhaps even more importantly, remain below 300 points and put a Liaison on one of the Assault Frigates. You've certainly freed me up for some vital flexibility! I like the list a lot more now, thank you!

I've seen a Rebel pre-meta that mostly consists of three major types of builds: the 2 assault frigate build, the corvette heavy build, and the mixed fleet of corvettes and one of the frigates. That sound about right so far?

I've heard there are no stupid questions (Who lives in pineapple under the sea then?) so I decided to ask:

What's so good about Leia?
I really don't dig it. Could somebody explain to me how to use her effectively?