Hey everyone,

With the release of the new cards, fighters, and Assault Frigate Mk2, what do you think the new Rebel meta will look like?

I can see a number of changes:

Salvation for a cheapo Long Range blaster Nebulon could give it a niche.

Not seeing Yavaris making a huge splash, as it's somewhat situational (better anti-fighter than anti-capital though. May make Wedge a real killer).

None of the new CR90 titles really is too major, but Mon Mothma IMO seems more flexible than Dodanna, as evades are incredibly good already.

Garm Bel Iblis seems like he'd need more heavy ships to do anything.

AF2 naturally is going to be in every list. Probably more of the cheaper, fighter-heavy variant than the other. Gallant Haven and Paragon both look astoundingly good.

A-Wings are going to replace X-Wings in most lists

Y-Wings are going to be the go-to bomber.

B-Wings are going to largely rot pending something new and interesting that helps them engage better.

Meanwhile for the Imps, I could see the increase in speed from Gladiators making bombers much more important in general. Presence of TIE Bombers will be the counter to CR90 Swarms as well.

I suspect fear of imp fighter will mean the rebels will only use fighters as a screen to protect from imp bombers. I am really looking forward to seeing what happens.

for the wave 1 meta, I think we have to focus on the biggest challenge currently facing the rebel fleet:

resisting the urge to buy ******* everything

for the wave 1 meta, I think we have to focus on the biggest challenge currently facing the rebel fleet:

resisting the urge to buy ******* everything

You want them, don't you? Go ahead. Buy them. Take them and strike down the empire!

for the wave 1 meta, I think we have to focus on the biggest challenge currently facing the rebel fleet:

resisting the urge to buy ******* everything

You want them, don't you? Go ahead. Buy them. Take them and strike down the empire!

And your journey towards the Dark Side will be complete.

I think we're getting our sides mixed

BTW the notion that rebs NEED the af2 only make me want to shelf mine and run nothing but nebs

Until the theory is either proven or disproven anyway. Going to run 3 escorts for starters

I'm a salve to my contrary nature, so I know I'm only buying the space guppy for the upgrades. I'm sticking to the non-ugly Alliance ships myself, so that's Neb FFs and Blockade Runners supported by fighters until the Mon Cals come out.

As for the A-wing replacing the X-wing, I'm waiting on two things myself. Firstly, will the A-wing keep its black die for Capital ships, and how well will Bombers do without an Escort? Beyond those two questions, I'm still not completely sold on a ship that has less hull and anti-fighter and lacks the Bomber keyword, all for the advantage of a slightly cheaper package and Counter2 and more speed. I'm still looking at the A-wing as an anti-bomber interceptor until I see it actually proves itself as a true all around fighter like the X.

A fortuneteller shared with me the following revelations:

- Meta will be dominated by starfighter-heavy lists with 8 squadrons;
- Because of that Players will favour Assault Frigates and Escort Frigates over Support Refit Variants and Corvettes;
- Every Assault Frigate will have expanded hangar bay and some of them will also be refitted with enhanced armament;
- Corvette swarm will be as ineffective as boring;
- Corvette will find its niche as a point filler;

* * *

Guys, seriously, please! We know almost nothing about Nebulon's upgrade cards. Real capabilities of Rebel ships are an enigma. Start serious theorycrafting after spoilers.

There have been enough spoilers for both sides to start to come up with lists. Personally, I'm looking forward to Salvation being a huge boost to frigates being used for ranged fire support- as mentioned earlier, throw some bomber squadrons to keep it protected, and it's dealing two hits on three sides of a red die, along with a critical effect on two of those.

I think there are enough counters to strong strategies in the game that I'm not sure we'll see one prevalent list. Fighter swarms are going to lose to lists with lots of AA (like Gladiator coverage, tons of Imperial fighters, or a line of Escort frigates), double victories are going to be mobbed by cheaper rebles, and so on.

A question to ask about Rebel strategies will depend on how valued the Assault Frigate will be. Personally I think any rebel list that wants to go toe-to-toe with Victories in a slugging match is going to need them. There's greater room for exploitable mistakes in rebel lists that lean on their Nebulons do do most of the fighting. All that needs to happen is a Victory to get into one of your side arcs and it's pretty much over.

With fighters so many options for mixes open up. Want to compete with TIE Interceptors? Take A-Wings. Want only enough to guard your capital ships? Take B-Wings. Want that awesome flank following a Corvette? Take Y-Wings with your X-Wing escort.

I will be shocked if the Yavaris Tallon combo isn't meta. It seems like the only way to deal decent damage.

Wedge with Yavaris Tallon would on average destroy 3 Tie Fighters/Intercepters a turn by himself.

Farlander with Yavaris Tallon can throw 6 black dice a turn with re-rolls against a ship's hull every turn hes in range(more firepower than the front arc of a VSD and can crit 3 times a turn)

I just pray they give the B-wing a greater chance to actually join the fight rather than plod along for 6 turns praying not to get intercepted and stuck.

If you are running a named pilot, I would be surprised if Tallon wasn't hanging around in the background. I mean, come on, it essentially doubles the value of that pilot.

Who wouldn't want to use Dutch to stop two enemy fighters from attacking, Farlander attacking twice, Luke putting two black dies through shields, or whatever Tycho does?

If you are bringing named pilots, Tallon is awesome.

The most effective thing I can come up with is one or two AF's with x17 turbolasers. The ability to negate most of the Victory's redirects is going to be the biggest boon to the rebels in this wave. That obstacle is primarily what makes the VSD such a pain to take down right now, to the point that's it's almost impossible in 180 pt games.

The AF has the range, the side batteries, and the agility to dictate the terms of the engagement between it and the VSD. Once people start to see the importance of x17s, Vics are going to start dropping way more frequently.

Something like this?

The most effective thing I can come up with is one or two AF's with x17 turbolasers. The ability to negate most of the Victory's redirects is going to be the biggest boon to the rebels in this wave. That obstacle is primarily what makes the VSD such a pain to take down right now, to the point that's it's almost impossible in 180 pt games.

The AF has the range, the side batteries, and the agility to dictate the terms of the engagement between it and the VSD. Once people start to see the importance of x17s, Vics are going to start dropping way more frequently.

The Imperial players will have to keep the Mark II from getting into a VSD's flank without being supported. And when the Imperials are supporting their VSD that means more of their fleet will be used to fend off the Space Whale. So, what to do with the rest of your fleet?

The most effective thing I can come up with is one or two AF's with x17 turbolasers. The ability to negate most of the Victory's redirects is going to be the biggest boon to the rebels in this wave. That obstacle is primarily what makes the VSD such a pain to take down right now, to the point that's it's almost impossible in 180 pt games.

The AF has the range, the side batteries, and the agility to dictate the terms of the engagement between it and the VSD. Once people start to see the importance of x17s, Vics are going to start dropping way more frequently.

You're seeing the Space Whale like I am. When that ship gets past the front arc and begins to circle a VSD it has the advantage. If the VSD stays for the Broadside battle it will lose and if it try's to run it opens its rear up for the Mark II to pound it from the rear.

The Imperial players will have to keep the Mark II from getting into a VSD's flank without being supported. And when the Imperials are supporting their VSD that means more of their fleet will be used to fend off the Space Whale. So, what to do with the rest of your fleet?

Objectives like hyperspace assault, superior positions, and perhaps adv gunnery or opening salvo would be ideal to take, me thinks

The most effective thing I can come up with is one or two AF's with x17 turbolasers. The ability to negate most of the Victory's redirects is going to be the biggest boon to the rebels in this wave. That obstacle is primarily what makes the VSD such a pain to take down right now, to the point that's it's almost impossible in 180 pt games.

The AF has the range, the side batteries, and the agility to dictate the terms of the engagement between it and the VSD. Once people start to see the importance of x17s, Vics are going to start dropping way more frequently.

Something like this?

I think this would be extremely vulnerable to a Tie-Bomber list. With only 3 A-wings to defend your AFIIs its likely that the Rymer and Co. will bring down at least 1 AFII before it is able to finish flanking the VSDs.

Its likely more fighters will be needed

The most effective thing I can come up with is one or two AF's with x17 turbolasers. The ability to negate most of the Victory's redirects is going to be the biggest boon to the rebels in this wave. That obstacle is primarily what makes the VSD such a pain to take down right now, to the point that's it's almost impossible in 180 pt games.

The AF has the range, the side batteries, and the agility to dictate the terms of the engagement between it and the VSD. Once people start to see the importance of x17s, Vics are going to start dropping way more frequently.

Something like this?

I think this would be extremely vulnerable to a Tie-Bomber list. With only 3 A-wings to defend your AFIIs its likely that the Rymer and Co. will bring down at least 1 AFII before it is able to finish flanking the VSDs.

Its likely more fighters will be needed

Mass TIEs is a weakness, however, each AF gets 2 anti-squad dice and gunnery team, allowing you to shoot at your main target as well as all the TIEs in that same arc. Also, gallant haven helps your a-wings survivability immensely. I just posted this in the fleet thread and gave it a run down addressing this issue.

You're right though, TIE's could be a problem en masse.

Guys, seriously, please! We know almost nothing about Nebulon's upgrade cards. Real capabilities of Rebel ships are an enigma. Start serious theorycrafting after spoilers.

Dude, it's an internet miniatures game forum. Judgement has been passed, the game has been declared broken, and droves of players are ready to rage quit.

As far as the actual Rebel meta there's no way to be 100% sure until we've seen all of the cards. The upgrades are still not completely spoiled. I will be flying B-Wings with an A-Wing escort, a Nebulon, and an Assault Frigate later this week. Not saying it will be a good list but I love the B-Wing and hopefully it won't completely suck.

I don't plan on running a single awing, and I probably won't be running an assault frigate. Going to give the 5x Neb-B list a go. I wish there were a good 19 point commander... So that I could squeeze in another xi7...

The most effective thing I can come up with is one or two AF's with x17 turbolasers. The ability to negate most of the Victory's redirects is going to be the biggest boon to the rebels in this wave. That obstacle is primarily what makes the VSD such a pain to take down right now, to the point that's it's almost impossible in 180 pt games.

The AF has the range, the side batteries, and the agility to dictate the terms of the engagement between it and the VSD. Once people start to see the importance of x17s, Vics are going to start dropping way more frequently.

You're seeing the Space Whale like I am. When that ship gets past the front arc and begins to circle a VSD it has the advantage. If the VSD stays for the Broadside battle it will lose and if it try's to run it opens its rear up for the Mark II to pound it from the rear.

The Imperial players will have to keep the Mark II from getting into a VSD's flank without being supported. And when the Imperials are supporting their VSD that means more of their fleet will be used to fend off the Space Whale. So, what to do with the rest of your fleet?

Afaik, a VSD with enhanced armament matches the AF in terms of side arc firepower, and could employ intel officers as well to effectively cancel that single evade token. Once evade is out of the equation, mon mothma is useless on an AF and the space whale is less durable than the VSD. With 3 (4 if concentrate fire) reds, we are looking at 2,25 (3) average damage, so as long as you roll average, the x17 is not going to weigh in that much. And pointswise, I can bring a dominator VSD I with the same exact upgrades (gunnery team, intel officers) plus enhanced armament for 109 pts. Hell, I might take warlord title to change any excess accs to touble hits for 105. Not going to say I will not use the AF in a similar way, probably using enhanced armament instead of X17s circling the VSD - but the attrition battle is not that one-sided and pro-rebells at all.

Not seeing Yavaris making a huge splash, as it's somewhat situational (better anti-fighter than anti-capital though. May make Wedge a real killer).

Yavaris is one of the best cards in the expansion IMO. I've been using it with Raymus in 300 pt games for a while now, and its won me nearly every game - more importantly, when I've not used this combo I've lost and really missed that fighter support. Its even more effective with Luke and/or Most Wanted - My X-Wings nearly took out a Victory by themselves using this tactic (6 Bomber attacks with 2 dice each), with the Neb finishing it off.

Its important that you use a Neb B Escort and include Raymus so you can activate 3 squadrons every time you reveal a Squadron command.

Hadn't thought of Raymus. Good call!

I hope the "meta" is not to use the word meta...

I'm not sure how the rebel fighters will work out.

A wings look like they have to be used on their own - maybe to rush out and pin down subgroups of TIEs. It will probably be a one way trip.

X wings with their escort seem to be needed if you want to use B or Y wings. Otherwise a minimum number of TIEs left close to each Star destroyer will contain the bombers for so long that they won't be able to cause anywhere near their points in damage.

I'm worried that 50 points or so of TIEs will effectivily negate an entire 100 points of rebel fighters.

Most wanted has been hit with errata to not allow fighters to gain the extra dice...