This came up in my last session, and seemed really weird... I was GMing, and had a character fleeing the scene of a crime. I knew that 2 maneuvers was the limit, so I had her take 2 strain to move away twice, and then intended to have her draw a blaster as an action. One of my players then called me on it, and commented that drawing a weapon is a maneuver, so she couldn't be running at top speed and pulling a gun. And yet, but this understanding of the rules, she could be running at top speed and firing an already drawn weapon.

...

We went with it, but it seems rather strange. I feel like the 2 maneuver limit to prevent abusive repetition - like aiming three times, or running crazy distances - not to enforce aggressive actions, like shooting or using a Force power... Anybody noticed this? Thoughts on the matter?

I agree, I think I'd let that one go, let them convert the action to a maneuver to pull a pistol. "The rules are more like guidelines anyway..."

It's definitely odd when you hit certain scenarios like that. There isn't really a good, hard explanation to give, since somebody could spend 2 maneuvers to run around and then slice something for an action, but it's mostly impossible for somebody to open a door, move to the other side, and then close it (3 maneuvers). But that's just how things are and it plays into the management of players and what all they can do in a turn.

If you want to stick to RAW, you could just point out Quick Draw talent, and items/weapons/attachments and modifications that give access to it, or Explorer's Signature Ability, and just sort of say that maneuvers and actions require a different set of work and effort to do that makes it impossible to do 3 maneuvers by default, but possible to do 2 maneuvers and an action. It isn't entirely a satisfactory answer, but it is what it is.

If you don't mind breaking it, you could do what whafrog suggested. Though I'd recommend requiring a Destiny Point and even more strain (maybe 3?). Seems steep, but that's what Signature Abilities, talents, and so on are for.

If she was running away from someone, you go with the chase rules (competitive Athletics checks between rounds, use manoeuvres for everything except adjust distance between people involved). And if she wasn't running away from someone, it wouldn't really matter (a place can't pursue you) and you can just skip the round-by-round mechanics and say, "You successfully run away, now what do you do?".

What I'm trying to say is that if the goal was merely to put distance between herself and the crime scene I think you'd be better served with having her make a check (for example Athletics, or Streetwise for local area knowledge, or Cool for not getting lost in the heat of the moment) and use the result to narrate the escape. Breaking things into rounds when there are no enemies involved is kinda needlessly complicated and detailed.

Again the game engine comes down to GM discretion. As long as you don't feel it's abusive, I say roll with it. If it started becoming habitual, I might put my foot down, but something like this, it makes sense in the context.

Fleeing from the scene of a crime sounds like the start of a chase. In addition to the maneuvers, I would suggest a coordination check for pulling out the weapon while running at top speed. I can imagine an easy difficulty roll upgraded once to increase the stakes. "Whoops, a despair, you've just dropped your weapon in the dark alley."

Maneuvers can get kinda hokey at times. In any case, it's best not to rules-lawyer it (from a GM or player perspective) but rather to simply ask "What is trying to be accomplished in this scene?"

This really sounds like a chase to me. These kind of hokey rules situations can be done away with by simply using the right rules for the situation, and it seems that often times the chase rules are underutilized. Make the Athletics check (or appropriate equivalent skill, based on terrain, mode of movement, and any other factors you deem relevant) at the top of the round, and then people are free to take actions and maneuvers. Apply setbacks freely to people running at top speed and trying to shoot

In the OP's case the error was the requiring the two Strain for Second Maneuver without offering the Action conversion right off the bat. As soon as it was apparent that the Player wanted to use their Action as a Maneuver the GM should have ruled that the PC could either take an Action and the second Maneuver for +2 Strain or convert the Action to a Maneuver and save the two Strain. The other option would be to have the "Draw" and Action by making the PC roll for it (as was mentioned above) this way it's technically still an Action, plus it makes narrative since because drawing a weapon while running full speed is a difficult thing to do.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but as I recall, a PC can take two maneuvers per turn that relate to movement. However, a PC could take another maneuver unrelated to movement (drawing a weapon, activating an ability, etc.).

Everyone pointed out chase rules but is she being chased? Is there any combat occurring anymore, or was she even in combat? If there are no opponents for chase rules or combat then I'd just let her run and pull out the weapon.

All good suggestions.

To clarify: It was the first round of combat, though the players had just stumbled in on the woman who had killed someone. A chase did ensue shortly thereafter, but not right then. She was just trying to get her gun out of the holster and get out the door in a hurry, and the players were still figuring out what was going on.

Regarding converting the action to a maneuver, I understand that was an option as opposed to taking strain, but if a character can be running (double maneuver) and using a Force power / shooting (an action), why can't a character be running (double maneuver) and drawing a gun (as an action)? I'm inclined to agree with Braendig's idea that only movement and aiming ought to be capped. Other maneuvers should be acceptable under the label "action'...

I'd probably let them do the weapon draw as their Action.

Long ago my group and I house ruled that you can take three maneuvers per turn by downgrading your action and spending 2 strain, but you can still only spend two maneuvers moving a round. Has solved so many problems.

All good suggestions.

To clarify: It was the first round of combat, though the players had just stumbled in on the woman who had killed someone. A chase did ensue shortly thereafter, but not right then. She was just trying to get her gun out of the holster and get out the door in a hurry, and the players were still figuring out what was going on.

Regarding converting the action to a maneuver, I understand that was an option as opposed to taking strain, but if a character can be running (double maneuver) and using a Force power / shooting (an action), why can't a character be running (double maneuver) and drawing a gun (as an action)? I'm inclined to agree with Braendig's idea that only movement and aiming ought to be capped. Other maneuvers should be acceptable under the label "action'...

Sorry I wasn't trying to scold you on your GM'ing

The difference between an Action and a Maneuver is that an Action generally requires a Roll against a Skill or the Activation of a Power, which means it can potentially fail, a Maneuver generally doesn't because it's considered so routine that failure is extremely unlikely. This doesn't mean a PC can't do something that would normally be considered a Maneuver as an Action it just means you can't necessarily do it automatically. So in the situation you've described you absolutely can have the PC Draw their weapon and do two Maneuvers but that Draw is no longer automatic because you've used up your two allotted automatic Maneuvers and now you have to roll as you would an Action to see if you succeed. It's actually pretty strait forward.

The main problem I have with 3 maneuvers (e.g.) a double-move and a draw is that it's really boring. Nothing really happens, cinematically-speaking. "Okay, for this round, everyone is running." Sure you can narrate random stuff to try and make it more exciting, but then what are we playing with dice for? I suggest that you get get those dice rolling, which will help to create a feeling of momentum in the encounter.

You can get the same "mechanical effect" PLUS some interesting narrative stuff by simply making up a Difficulty for the action (Athletics to run faster, or Coordination to draw a blaster from a holster attached to a moving leg) and then rolling it. In doing so, you can really inform the round and frame the encounter.

Like so...

In the case of our table, we've often 'merged' maneuvers if they're based on doing very different things, like running and "managing gear". Essentially, if 1 maneuver wouldn't interfere with a second, they're both done as a single maneuver. We probably should ask for a coordination check to do that, but, eh.

The main problem I have with 3 maneuvers (e.g.) a double-move and a draw is that it's really boring. Nothing really happens, cinematically-speaking. "Okay, for this round, everyone is running." Sure you can narrate random stuff to try and make it more exciting, but then what are we playing with dice for? I suggest that you get get those dice rolling, which will help to create a feeling of momentum in the encounter.

You can get the same "mechanical effect" PLUS some interesting narrative stuff by simply making up a Difficulty for the action (Athletics to run faster, or Coordination to draw a blaster from a holster attached to a moving leg) and then rolling it. In doing so, you can really inform the round and frame the encounter.

Like so...

Coordination--drawing the blaster, while running: 2eA+1eD+2eS 1 success

"Fleeing the scene of the crime, the feminine figure darts down an alleyway and manages to extract her blaster."

You can add, if you like (to get the game moving),

"She fires a couple blaster bolts in quick succession, but neither shot comes anywhere close to hitting its mark. She seems to be most concerned with escaping."

awayputurwpn, that's a super cool dice graphic. What's that website you linked it to? How's it work? Is it just a dice roller?

The main problem I have with 3 maneuvers (e.g.) a double-move and a draw is that it's really boring. Nothing really happens, cinematically-speaking. "Okay, for this round, everyone is running." Sure you can narrate random stuff to try and make it more exciting, but then what are we playing with dice for? I suggest that you get get those dice rolling, which will help to create a feeling of momentum in the encounter.

You can get the same "mechanical effect" PLUS some interesting narrative stuff by simply making up a Difficulty for the action (Athletics to run faster, or Coordination to draw a blaster from a holster attached to a moving leg) and then rolling it. In doing so, you can really inform the round and frame the encounter.

Like so...

Coordination--drawing the blaster, while running: 2eA+1eD+2eS 1 success

"Fleeing the scene of the crime, the feminine figure darts down an alleyway and manages to extract her blaster."

You can add, if you like (to get the game moving),

"She fires a couple blaster bolts in quick succession, but neither shot comes anywhere close to hitting its mark. She seems to be most concerned with escaping."

That's an excellent way of viewing things. If everyone is running for a round, make it an Athletics or Coordination check to ensure that something interesting is happening... With the rounds being longer than most RPGs, something of interest should be happening almost every round, and there shouldn't be wasted, uninteresting turns.

The main problem I have with 3 maneuvers (e.g.) a double-move and a draw is that it's really boring. Nothing really happens, cinematically-speaking. "Okay, for this round, everyone is running." Sure you can narrate random stuff to try and make it more exciting, but then what are we playing with dice for? I suggest that you get get those dice rolling, which will help to create a feeling of momentum in the encounter.

You can get the same "mechanical effect" PLUS some interesting narrative stuff by simply making up a Difficulty for the action (Athletics to run faster, or Coordination to draw a blaster from a holster attached to a moving leg) and then rolling it. In doing so, you can really inform the round and frame the encounter.

Like so...

Coordination--drawing the blaster, while running: 2eA+1eD+2eS 1 success

"Fleeing the scene of the crime, the feminine figure darts down an alleyway and manages to extract her blaster."

You can add, if you like (to get the game moving),

"She fires a couple blaster bolts in quick succession, but neither shot comes anywhere close to hitting its mark. She seems to be most concerned with escaping."

awayputurwpn, that's a super cool dice graphic. What's that website you linked it to? How's it work? Is it just a dice roller?

It's orokos.com!

I use it in all my Play-by-Posts, it's got an integrated bbcode function, and yeah it's a dice roller that can roll (at least) any numerical die (anything thing from a d0 to a d9999!) and all the Edge of the Empire dice. It includes pictures as well as shorthand nomenclature for the results.

You can follow the link I posted with the dice result or just go to create a user name. It saves all your dice rolls indefinitely, so far as I can tell, so it's really useful for going back and referencing, or if you need a PbP solution to keep players accountable...although I just use it for the pretty pictures

EDIT: As to "how it works," there's just a small learning curve to using the roller:

1. you need to know the name of each die (Boost, Setback, Ability, Difficulty, Proficiency, Challenge, Force)

2. you need to include the number of each die you want, followed by an "e," followed directly by the first letter (capitalized) of the die.

3. include the + symbol to roll more than one type of die.

Like so:

3eP+2eD = 3 Proficiency dice, 2 Difficulty dice (for example, a Wookiee with Brawn 3 & Melee 3 attacking a Gamorrean with his Ryyk blade)

1eP+2eA+1eB+1eC+1eD+1eS = 1 Proficiency, 2 Ability, 1 Boost, 1 Challenge, 1 Difficulty, 1 Setback (for example, a Twi'lek with Presence 3 & Charm 1, roleplaying exceptionally well, trying to put the moves on a human who has a bit of a prejudice against Twi'leks)

3eA+1eF+3eD = 3 Ability, 1 Force, 3 Difficulty (for example, an undisciplined Force user attempting to mind-trick a single stormtrooper)

Easy once you know how!

I've used Orokos before, but what's this integrated BBcode?

I've used Orokos before, but what's this integrated BBcode?

http://orokos.com/roll/287816 check out the links right under the big "Results" cell, next to "Copy pasta."

The bbcode link should open up a little text box with bbcode to copy/paste into forums like this one.

Oh gosh... I've been manually creating those to please my PbP GM... Formatting the roll alone takes about 4 minutes.

That is a thing of beauty...

I have a quick query I wouldn't mind some feedback on regarding maneuevers:

* Dropping a weapon is an incidental.

* Stowing a weapon a maneuver.

* Drawing a weapon is a maneuver.

Could you conceivably spend a single maneuver to just SWAP weapons? No quickdraw talents or anything, just like you're slinging a rifle on your back but drawing a sidearm at the same time. Too much? Take strain? Average (lol) Coordination check? Perhaps a little more unrealtistically, a player has a Vibro-axe drawn but wants to switch to their bowcaster. It's not quite a sidearm, but mechanically speaking it's the same sort of action.

Normally if someone wanted to attain doing something like that, they'd be forced to simply drop whatever weapon they're currently holding instead of stowing it and then drawing the preferred one. They'd just spend a maneuver later to collect it or wait until after combat (unless the GM is an ******* and says "nope you've lost it forever tough turtles.")

I know it's largely up to the GM, but I'm genuinely curious what other people think about that.

Although it's not supported by RAW, I would allow a character to swap out weapons with a single maneuver. Anything that encourages a player to change things up from the usual is fine by me.

I'd allow it but I'd have them make an Easy Difficulty Agility roll just so they don't take the extra Maneuver for granted, Quickdraw after all is a Talent that is available and some PC(s) paid EXP for so I don't want it to lose value.