Walk by the FFG area on Friday and Saturday. It is almost a certainty that at any point there will be enough empty tables for 8 games of X-Wing.

I do not buy the space issue AT ALL. I've spent many hours in that area over the last few years and while it is often very busy, I can't think of there ever being a time they couldn't have fielded another 8 games of X-Wing in addition to all the other things going on.

Here's the thing, Gencon gets REAL pissy about using the tables for stuff you didn't say you were using the tables for. And this isn't something you can plan on, either.

Walk by the FFG area on Friday and Saturday. It is almost a certainty that at any point there will be enough empty tables for 8 games of X-Wing.

I do not buy the space issue AT ALL. I've spent many hours in that area over the last few years and while it is often very busy, I can't think of there ever being a time they couldn't have fielded another 8 games of X-Wing in addition to all the other things going on.

Here's the thing, Gencon gets REAL pissy about using the tables for stuff you didn't say you were using the tables for. And this isn't something you can plan on, either.

I'm not trying to say FFG should just grab any old tables to make space as they see fit on the fly. They will have space that is theirs, that they could allocate to 8 more games of X-Wing, planning with Gen Con in advance if they must (though I don't think they need to - their space will be their space so long as all their events are "on the books" with Gen Con and they collect tickets) Instead there will be tables, in the FFG area, likely even in an X-Wing section, unused by anyone. Gen Con isn't going around every hour of the Con making sure Event X is on table 4375. They are renting space.

I admit that I have done a lot of complaining in this thread.

I just read this in the World Championship article:

"Throughout this initial phase of registration, we will reserve a number of seats for our U.S. Regional Champions, North American Champions, and select National Champions from around the globe; all non-reserved seats for the 2015 World Championships will be made available on a first come, first serve basis."

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2015/5/18/ffgs-2015-world-championships/

So regional champions will get a guaranteed spot at worlds. While that's not the tournament they won the bye for it really is the next best thing. Some might argue it's even better. I am glad to see that winning a regional at this point still has some affect on a players ability to advance in the organize play structure.

I apologize for saying FFG acted in bad faith.

I admit that I have done a lot of complaining in this thread.

...

I apologize for saying FFG acted in bad faith.

Good on you for stepping up and saying so. Lots of folks wouldn't, even on the internet. Class act.

I know nothing about Gencon, but it seems like all of the problems stem from hosting the tournament at that event. FFG might be better off calling for bids from individuals who want to host the national tournament next year. There wouldn't be any timing or space issues, only the questions of how many people wanted to play and how many space mats they could track down.

I admit that I have done a lot of complaining in this thread.

...

I apologize for saying FFG acted in bad faith.

Good on you for stepping up and saying so. Lots of folks wouldn't, even on the internet. Class act.

Especially on the internet.

I admit that I have done a lot of complaining in this thread.

I just read this in the World Championship article:

"Throughout this initial phase of registration, we will reserve a number of seats for our U.S. Regional Champions, North American Champions, and select National Champions from around the globe; all non-reserved seats for the 2015 World Championships will be made available on a first come, first serve basis."

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2015/5/18/ffgs-2015-world-championships/

So regional champions will get a guaranteed spot at worlds. While that's not the tournament they won the bye for it really is the next best thing. Some might argue it's even better. I am glad to see that winning a regional at this point still has some affect on a players ability to advance in the organize play structure.

I apologize for saying FFG acted in bad faith.

I just read that too and was going to post it. Although Worlds is a lot further for me to go.

I secured my ticket for nationals (I got it at 19 remaining, so I think I know who was clicking BUY frantically at the same time I was ).

I am wondering how this is going to impact the competition level for upcoming regionals. The last two I attended were fierce, but I suspect many will lose heart if they did not get a ticket for nationals.

So I just read through the worlds announcement, and it sounds like there are participation prizes, and then top 16, 8, 4, and winner. Which likely means the same thing will be the case for Nationals. Which makes me a bit sad that they're getting rid of the top 64 prize, which is an "obtainable prize" that is "earned." But top 16 makes it's really unfriendly to win anything.

Contradiction in the email; says Saturday, August 1st is the Top 16. It's supposed to be Friday.

There was something funky going on with some of FFG events. I thought I would be able to play in the LCG tournament as well because in search results it showed as Friday, but when clicking through it correctly read as Thursday. I'm not sure whether that was just an issue with the beta event finder though, because the xls was correct.

Out of interest I wonder how many Regional winners will actually be able to use their byes? It seems that maybe they need to change it so Regional winners skip qualifying altogether and automatically qualify for day 2. At least the prize would be worth it that way. It seems like a lot won't be able to anymore, unless they were very forward thinking in going to Gencon.

Anyway, I have a ticket and I am really looking forward to it. Actually I'm not really, 7 or 8 rounds with a cut to top 16 is just plain unpleasant.

I'll be the one with the strange Kiwi accent.

I'm probably way late to the party on this one, but if you hadn't already decided to go to GenCon months ago and were waiting to see what your regionals performance was, you were probably already out of luck. Travel(days off work) and the cost of a hotel(if it's anything like DragonCon ~$600-$1000+ depending) involved aren't the kind of thing most people can swing on a whim with a month or two of notice, maybe, especially when the official host hotels and probably most of the other options were booked months ago.

In other news... Worlds might be worse.

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/177082-world-championship-announced/#entry1627703

Contradiction in the email; says Saturday, August 1st is the Top 16. It's supposed to be Friday.

There was something funky going on with some of FFG events. I thought I would be able to play in the LCG tournament as well because in search results it showed as Friday, but when clicking through it correctly read as Thursday. I'm not sure whether that was just an issue with the beta event finder though, because the xls was correct.

Out of interest I wonder how many Regional winners will actually be able to use their byes? It seems that maybe they need to change it so Regional winners skip qualifying altogether and automatically qualify for day 2. At least the prize would be worth it that way. It seems like a lot won't be able to anymore, unless they were very forward thinking in going to Gencon.

Anyway, I have a ticket and I am really looking forward to it. Actually I'm not really, 7 or 8 rounds with a cut to top 16 is just plain unpleasant.

I'll be the one with the strange Kiwi accent.

I'm probably way late to the party on this one, but if you hadn't already decided to go to GenCon months ago and were waiting to see what your regionals performance was, you were probably already out of luck. Travel(days off work) and the cost of a hotel(if it's anything like DragonCon ~$600-$1000+ depending) involved aren't the kind of thing most people can swing on a whim with a month or two of notice, maybe, especially when the official host hotels and probably most of the other options were booked months ago.

I would say if you were going to Gencon just for X-wing, you are doing it wrong.

Contradiction in the email; says Saturday, August 1st is the Top 16. It's supposed to be Friday.

There was something funky going on with some of FFG events. I thought I would be able to play in the LCG tournament as well because in search results it showed as Friday, but when clicking through it correctly read as Thursday. I'm not sure whether that was just an issue with the beta event finder though, because the xls was correct.

Out of interest I wonder how many Regional winners will actually be able to use their byes? It seems that maybe they need to change it so Regional winners skip qualifying altogether and automatically qualify for day 2. At least the prize would be worth it that way. It seems like a lot won't be able to anymore, unless they were very forward thinking in going to Gencon.

Anyway, I have a ticket and I am really looking forward to it. Actually I'm not really, 7 or 8 rounds with a cut to top 16 is just plain unpleasant.

I'll be the one with the strange Kiwi accent.

I'm probably way late to the party on this one, but if you hadn't already decided to go to GenCon months ago and were waiting to see what your regionals performance was, you were probably already out of luck. Travel(days off work) and the cost of a hotel(if it's anything like DragonCon ~$600-$1000+ depending) involved aren't the kind of thing most people can swing on a whim with a month or two of notice, maybe, especially when the official host hotels and probably most of the other options were booked months ago.

I would say if you were going to Gencon just for X-wing, you are doing it wrong.

I'm going to GenCon just for x wing. Last year I bought a 4 day pass since I had confidence I would make the Top 32 cut, but by noon on Friday I was bored and done with Gencon. It could just be my mindset - I don't really want to go and learn a new game and hobby when I don't have the money or time for the ones I currently have.

So this year I bought a 1 day pass (don't have confidence I'll make the Top 16, and if I do, I'll check out Indy on Friday, and buy a Saturday pass and be out only an additional $10). But I also only live like 3.5hrs away, and plan on camping again, so my total cost is ~$100 + Gencon (which came out to be $67).

Contradiction in the email; says Saturday, August 1st is the Top 16. It's supposed to be Friday.

There was something funky going on with some of FFG events. I thought I would be able to play in the LCG tournament as well because in search results it showed as Friday, but when clicking through it correctly read as Thursday. I'm not sure whether that was just an issue with the beta event finder though, because the xls was correct.Out of interest I wonder how many Regional winners will actually be able to use their byes? It seems that maybe they need to change it so Regional winners skip qualifying altogether and automatically qualify for day 2. At least the prize would be worth it that way. It seems like a lot won't be able to anymore, unless they were very forward thinking in going to Gencon.

Anyway, I have a ticket and I am really looking forward to it. Actually I'm not really, 7 or 8 rounds with a cut to top 16 is just plain unpleasant.

I'll be the one with the strange Kiwi accent.

I'm probably way late to the party on this one, but if you hadn't already decided to go to GenCon months ago and were waiting to see what your regionals performance was, you were probably already out of luck. Travel(days off work) and the cost of a hotel(if it's anything like DragonCon ~$600-$1000+ depending) involved aren't the kind of thing most people can swing on a whim with a month or two of notice, maybe, especially when the official host hotels and probably most of the other options were booked months ago.

I would say if you were going to Gencon just for X-wing, you are doing it wrong.

I'm going to GenCon just for x wing. Last year I bought a 4 day pass since I had confidence I would make the Top 32 cut, but by noon on Friday I was bored and done with Gencon. It could just be my mindset - I don't really want to go and learn a new game and hobby when I don't have the money or time for the ones I currently have.

So this year I bought a 1 day pass (don't have confidence I'll make the Top 16, and if I do, I'll check out Indy on Friday, and buy a Saturday pass and be out only an additional $10). But I also only live like 3.5hrs away, and plan on camping again, so my total cost is ~$100 + Gencon (which came out to be $67).

Same here, went to gencon and placed 18th in nationals and well I was done with gencon. I bought some stuff and left Sunday.

I stayed in my car in the parking garage lol. "lost" my ticket and essentially had a 3 day hotel for 20$.

Well, that saddens me. There is just so much variety.

It might be time to have a bunch of Store Championships and then only those winners play in regional tournaments and then those winners will be the ones playing for the nationals.

It might be time to have a bunch of Store Championships and then only those winners play in regional tournaments and then those winners will be the ones playing for the nationals.

While I'm not all for having only the winners, I would support a "qualifier." If the cuts were structured properly, I would be okay with each person in the cut qualifying for the next level competition, and the winner still gets a bye. They wouldn't really have to increase anything at that point, figure most stores are 4-8 cuts, and there were hundreds, so approx 1200 or so would qualify for regionals. And that would mean about 50 or so at each regional, with a cut to top 8. Which would yield 192 for Nationals.

You could obviously play around with the numbers a bit, and offer SC winners entry into Nationals as well or something. But I would 100% support that. In the 3 regionals I went to last year, I saw players that had bought the game 2 weeks ago, and players that had been playing since it came out. I was matched up against one of those new players in a R1, and he flew 4 X wings with zero space in between, straight, not even worrying about rocks, and then K turning. Obviously I wiped the table, full 100-0 win, with 40 minutes left over from the 60min round to relax. But I've also been paired up against Phild0 in the opening round (both at a regional and gencon), and one of us was carrying that loss all the way through.

So, by having some sort of qualifier, you ensure a certain level of competition in a tourney. This minimizes the "I got a "free" win against a guy who'd never played before" aspect, and makes every victory mean something.

It might be time to have a bunch of Store Championships and then only those winners play in regional tournaments and then those winners will be the ones playing for the nationals.

While I'm not all for having only the winners, I would support a "qualifier." If the cuts were structured properly, I would be okay with each person in the cut qualifying for the next level competition, and the winner still gets a bye. They wouldn't really have to increase anything at that point, figure most stores are 4-8 cuts, and there were hundreds, so approx 1200 or so would qualify for regionals. And that would mean about 50 or so at each regional, with a cut to top 8. Which would yield 192 for Nationals.

You could obviously play around with the numbers a bit, and offer SC winners entry into Nationals as well or something. But I would 100% support that. In the 3 regionals I went to last year, I saw players that had bought the game 2 weeks ago, and players that had been playing since it came out. I was matched up against one of those new players in a R1, and he flew 4 X wings with zero space in between, straight, not even worrying about rocks, and then K turning. Obviously I wiped the table, full 100-0 win, with 40 minutes left over from the 60min round to relax. But I've also been paired up against Phild0 in the opening round (both at a regional and gencon), and one of us was carrying that loss all the way through.

So, by having some sort of qualifier, you ensure a certain level of competition in a tourney. This minimizes the "I got a "free" win against a guy who'd never played before" aspect, and makes every victory mean something.

Qualifying would be a good solid option. However, an entire infrastructure would need to be created to accurately keep track of individual achievements to determine who has and who hasn't qualified for each different event. That is something FFG would have to invest time and money into creating. I'd be surprised to see them do that, I'm not sure there is a good ROI from it.

It might be time to have a bunch of Store Championships and then only those winners play in regional tournaments and then those winners will be the ones playing for the nationals.

While I'm not all for having only the winners, I would support a "qualifier." If the cuts were structured properly, I would be okay with each person in the cut qualifying for the next level competition, and the winner still gets a bye. They wouldn't really have to increase anything at that point, figure most stores are 4-8 cuts, and there were hundreds, so approx 1200 or so would qualify for regionals. And that would mean about 50 or so at each regional, with a cut to top 8. Which would yield 192 for Nationals.

You could obviously play around with the numbers a bit, and offer SC winners entry into Nationals as well or something. But I would 100% support that. In the 3 regionals I went to last year, I saw players that had bought the game 2 weeks ago, and players that had been playing since it came out. I was matched up against one of those new players in a R1, and he flew 4 X wings with zero space in between, straight, not even worrying about rocks, and then K turning. Obviously I wiped the table, full 100-0 win, with 40 minutes left over from the 60min round to relax. But I've also been paired up against Phild0 in the opening round (both at a regional and gencon), and one of us was carrying that loss all the way through.

So, by having some sort of qualifier, you ensure a certain level of competition in a tourney. This minimizes the "I got a "free" win against a guy who'd never played before" aspect, and makes every victory mean something.

Qualifying would be a good solid option. However, an entire infrastructure would need to be created to accurately keep track of individual achievements to determine who has and who hasn't qualified for each different event. That is something FFG would have to invest time and money into creating. I'd be surprised to see them do that, I'm not sure there is a good ROI from it.

I agree with both. I was of course just trying to come up with something a little different. I have never done another type of tournament like this where there was really no penalty for losing the initial tournament and still being able to move up to each subsequent one. Sporting events, once you lose that first tournament you are done.

I would say if you were going to Gencon just for X-wing, you are doing it wrong.

Sithborg, I respect your opinions on GenCon, but for me, I've never been to GenCon before and never had the desire until I got into X-Wing. I'll check out the other 3 days this year (Thursday is reserved for X-Wing) and see if Iike it. From what I've seen, it's just a bigger version (that charges money for every event) of some local game cons in my area (SF Bay Area), so I'm not sure what about it would make expensive flights, hotels, and taking 3 days off work worth it (or "doing it right") if X-Wing Nationals were not there.

My opinions could change, for sure, and I hope that does happen.

(disclosure, I'm mostly a board game player that dabbles in miniature games, and am not competitive in any games besides X-Wing, so BoardGameGeek Con is probably more of a dream for me to attend than GenCon)

(repeat posting)

I would say if you were going to Gencon just for X-wing, you are doing it wrong.

Sithborg, I respect your opinions on GenCon, but for me, I've never been to GenCon before and never had the desire until I got into X-Wing. I'll check out the other 3 days this year (Thursday is reserved for X-Wing) and see if Iike it. From what I've seen, it's just a bigger version (that charges money for every event) of some local game cons in my area (SF Bay Area), so I'm not sure what about it would make expensive flights, hotels, and taking 3 days off work worth it (or "doing it right") if X-Wing Nationals were not there.

My opinions could change, for sure, and I hope that does happen.

(disclosure, I'm mostly a board game player that dabbles in miniature games, and am not competitive in any games besides X-Wing, so BoardGameGeek Con is probably more of a dream for me to attend than GenCon)

I don't think you two are speaking on the same terms.

I interpret SithBorg as saying "If you are going to Gen Con just for X-Wing, you are missing out."

You seem to be saying "If there were no X-Wing, I wouldn't go".

Those are two quite different statements. While the extra stuff may or may not be your primary focus, if you are already going to be eating the cost of a pass and travel, it makes a lot of sense to see the rest if you can afford a couple nights hotel stay. The cost of the pass won't change if you think you have any chance of making the cut, the travel cost is approximately the same, and most people won't require extra days off for the weekend.

I don't think you two are speaking on the same terms.

I interpret SithBorg as saying "If you are going to Gen Con just for X-Wing, you are missing out."

You seem to be saying "If there were no X-Wing, I wouldn't go".

Those are two quite different statements. While the extra stuff may or may not be your primary focus, if you are already going to be eating the cost of a pass and travel, it makes a lot of sense to see the rest if you can afford a couple nights hotel stay. The cost of the pass won't change if you think you have any chance of making the cut, the travel cost is approximately the same, and most people won't require extra days off for the weekend.

I'm not sure what you mean. Yes, your summary of his post and my posts are correct, but I see them as the same.

I AM going to GenCon just for X-Wing, which is in my mind the same as "If X-Wing weren't at GenCon, I wouldn't go". Yes, I can see where if the situation were that I live close enough to drive there and back on the same day, and only get a one-day pass for X-Wing, then the statements are different.

I would say if you were going to Gencon just for X-wing, you are doing it wrong.

Sithborg, I respect your opinions on GenCon, but for me, I've never been to GenCon before and never had the desire until I got into X-Wing. I'll check out the other 3 days this year (Thursday is reserved for X-Wing) and see if Iike it. From what I've seen, it's just a bigger version (that charges money for every event) of some local game cons in my area (SF Bay Area), so I'm not sure what about it would make expensive flights, hotels, and taking 3 days off work worth it (or "doing it right") if X-Wing Nationals were not there.

My opinions could change, for sure, and I hope that does happen.

(disclosure, I'm mostly a board game player that dabbles in miniature games, and am not competitive in any games besides X-Wing, so BoardGameGeek Con is probably more of a dream for me to attend than GenCon)

There is nothing wrong for something to draw you into Gencon. Just don't ignore the full experience. There is a LOT of stuff going on, with a ton of variety. I'm sure you can find something entertaining.

Last time I went, I did a few seminars when I wasn't running some games. They were nice because they were free. But, there are a ton of other things to do. I have a friend who likes the crafts in the workshops. My friend's step daughter was big into the anime stuff. You will be amazed what you can find in the dealer hall, once you get past the big companies.

I love Gencon. Wish I could go. (Just avoid the Magic area. Gencon was where I learned gamer funk was very real)

I don't think you two are speaking on the same terms.

I interpret SithBorg as saying "If you are going to Gen Con just for X-Wing, you are missing out."

You seem to be saying "If there were no X-Wing, I wouldn't go".

Those are two quite different statements. While the extra stuff may or may not be your primary focus, if you are already going to be eating the cost of a pass and travel, it makes a lot of sense to see the rest if you can afford a couple nights hotel stay. The cost of the pass won't change if you think you have any chance of making the cut, the travel cost is approximately the same, and most people won't require extra days off for the weekend.

I'm not sure what you mean. Yes, your summary of his post and my posts are correct, but I see them as the same.

I AM going to GenCon just for X-Wing, which is in my mind the same as "If X-Wing weren't at GenCon, I wouldn't go". Yes, I can see where if the situation were that I live close enough to drive there and back on the same day, and only get a one-day pass for X-Wing, then the statements are different.

Does it make it clear if I restate the first one as "If you are going to Gen Con and only doing X-Wing, you are missing out."?

(Sidenote: The confusion is (I think), a common miscommunication caused by looking at "just because of" as identical to "just for". You are going "just because of" X-Wing. But presumably, since you are checking out other things, you are not going "just for" X-wing.)