Ewoks were not kiddie elements. Sure, they were cute, but they were pure evil. The things ate sentient species. They killed and ate things much larger than themselves. They were not tree dwelling vegetarian hippies. Take a look at the trap Chewy triggered. It was rather high, and made of meat, which meant they were trying to trap rather large meat eating creatures. Once captured, the ewoks first response was to prepare the rebel heroes as a banquet. They had no trouble eating sentient species. And they were psychotic. These people they were preparing for supper had just delivered their god to them. And Leia wasn't captured to become supper, but treated quite well. The ewoks were smart enough to realize the people were the same, but choose to eat some and save others.

They had weaponized gliders.

They had catapults.

They had rolling log traps.

They had crushing log traps.

They are able to attack, overwhelm, and defeat stormtroopers.

This is not stuff they set up in a few hours, this is stuff that had been built for some time.

While they utilized primitive weapons, they could adapt quickly to technology. Learning to operate speeder bikes and AT-STs took only seconds and they were virtually masters at it.

They either hunted/killed/battled with creatures far larger then themselves, or they had been preparing to attack the Imperials for some time. Why attack the Empire? Food!

These things are pure evil. Just look at their lifeless black eyes. I halfway expect this new First Order to be run by Ewoks. With access to all this new technology, they take to the stars to overwhelm the galaxy and eat every living creature.

Last paragraph was just too funny... lmao!

thank you for the entertaining post.

Seriously though, while elements of the movie are aimed at kids (especially with Ep1-3), there is a lot of dark, mature elements. The kiddie label is attached by people who have little to no knowledge of the SW universe.

Oppressive racist Nazi like empire.

systematic oppression of different groups

Genocide

Destruction of entire planets of people

Torture

Killing

Broken families

Father cutting off the hand of his son

love interests

slavery

blood and gore

bounty hunting

theft

starvation

gambling

extortion

giant monsters eating people

etc, etc, etc

Watch the clone wars cartoon series all the way to the end. It gets deep. Sure, it starts off a little light and throws in way too much Jar Jar in the first season, but it goes dark in the later seasons. Even in the early stuff you have biological warfare, political intrigue, etc.

While Rebels has been relatively light-hearted so far, I think it's going to head in the same direction as clone wars did. So far we've touched on elements of slavery, torture, death, etc. Our heroes here are using subterfuge, sabotage, and vandalism to spread their message.

This stuff isn't transformers or GIJoe where no one ever dies or gets hurt.

Oppressive racist Nazi like empire.

I don't think the Empire was inherently racist, but it was definitely sexist and speciesist. And the latter can be explained away by the fact that all we see is the Imperial military, where being exclusive to one species makes a huge amount of logistical sense (especially given that most of their equipment was inherited from the GAR - an all-human military force).

But yeah, it's pretty clear that Vader wears a Stahlhelm and a sci-fi gas mask for a reason - not just because he's a burn victim.

Though they are moving away from the sexism elements in the new canon some, there's at least one female star destroyer captain shown so far and a number of stormtroopers that are identified as female.

I think the lack of females imperials in the old canon was less sexism then the fact that at the time most people thought of the military as a primarily male role. Even in the rebellion yo only see one female in combat in the OT

Though they are moving away from the sexism elements in the new canon some, there's at least one female star destroyer captain shown so far and a number of stormtroopers that are identified as female.

I think the lack of females imperials in the old canon was less sexism then the fact that at the time most people thought of the military as a primarily male role. Even in the rebellion yo only see one female in combat in the OT

I feel that what creates the conflict in this is the difference between implicit/explicit themes and elements. For example, above you have a good list of why the Ewoks are in a way quite terrifying. Yes, they look like teddy bears, and yes, they're small and can be pushed around abit and are primitive, but in the scene where they're happily putting logs onto the pile to cook Han, it starts to become more frightening. Because of their appearance and antics its seems not very disturbing but that is because the violence is implied. Also, with something like the destruction of Alderaan, its quite clearly awful but the characters are all so far removed from it that it doesn't have the true impact that it should.

Think of the violence in war movies and in SW and you can see how by sliding it further and further towards being explicit you could have a Saving Private Ryan version of the Clone Wars. When they made the movies, they aimed for something that has lots of interesting themes but was not so focused on the horrors of the movie. I think that a lot of viewers now-a-days are much more sophisticated and want different versions. Some want an easy version, some want a much darker version. I don't want to watch Schindler's List with light sabers but at the same time I don't want to watch Frozen with light sabers either.

The tricky part is seeing whats on screen and then projecting that back so that you can see all the bogeymen and monsters and evil lurking under the surface.

I like the idea the of a more darker Star Wars post Jedi. I like to think of the prequels as the fairy tales of the "Good old days, before the wars" in aesthetic and tone. Now, I don't want it too dark personally but I would enjoy a more......serious tone at times.

Well no Jar Jar or Ewoks would be great. But remember kids, like my son, will still be watching these films so there will have to be a Fun-ness to them.

I was but a wee lad of five when Episode IV hit the screens. Within the first minutes of that movie people were being blasted, choked, and threatened, and I had a ball! I didn't need it kiddified.

I frequently wonder why people think we need Jar Jars and Ewoks and kid bounty hunters to make things appeal to kids. Back in 1977 I didn't know a single kid who wasn't in to Star Wars after seeing A New Hope.

Serious question, were do we even get the whole "the Empire is racist" thing from? I never got that from the movies at all. I strikes me as something to TRY to make the Empire bad (Blowing up a planet wasn't enough I guess).

I think it comes from how the Imperial officer on the Death Star reacted to Chewie and the fact that we never saw any aliens in the Imperial military on screen. Much like how Kevin J Anderson decided that the lack of on screen human women in the Imperial military meant they were sexist.

Of course he then tried to justify their sexism by creating a female Imperial admiral who could only beat the New Republic when she had such an overwhelming force advantage that it made the opening battle from A New Hope, and the Battle of Hoth look even by comparison.

Though they are moving away from the sexism elements in the new canon some, there's at least one female star destroyer captain shown so far and a number of stormtroopers that are identified as female.

I think the lack of females imperials in the old canon was less sexism then the fact that at the time most people thought of the military as a primarily male role. Even in the rebellion yo only see one female in combat in the OT

Last I checked, the military is primarily a male role, at least in the US. Only about 15% active service are women.

Sure, but that doesn't contradict RogueCorona's point, I think. It's quite clear to me that currently Lucasfilm is being very gender inclusive in its portrayals, both in The Clone Wars, Rebels, and in the A New Dawn book. (I've yet to read Tarkin.)

I think it comes from how the Imperial officer on the Death Star reacted to Chewie and the fact that we never saw any aliens in the Imperial military on screen. Much like how Kevin J Anderson decided that the lack of on screen human women in the Imperial military meant they were sexist.

Of course he then tried to justify their sexism by creating a female Imperial admiral who could only beat the New Republic when she had such an overwhelming force advantage that it made the opening battle from A New Hope, and the Battle of Hoth look even by comparison.

Well, Kevin J. Anderson didn't make that up. It was explicit in the D6RPG by West End Games that the Empire was male-oriented. But he certainly made the point that you couldn't advance in the Empire if you weren't a Grand Moff's sex kitten.

But I'd rather forget about Kevin J. Anderson's "contributions" to the EU.

I think it comes from how the Imperial officer on the Death Star reacted to Chewie and the fact that we never saw any aliens in the Imperial military on screen. Much like how Kevin J Anderson decided that the lack of on screen human women in the Imperial military meant they were sexist.

Of course he then tried to justify their sexism by creating a female Imperial admiral who could only beat the New Republic when she had such an overwhelming force advantage that it made the opening battle from A New Hope, and the Battle of Hoth look even by comparison.

So in other words this is like the "All Bothans are spies" garbage the EU gave us?

Aderson makes a big deal about how Daala is supposed to be a tactical genius but refuses to let her defeat any NR force that has New Republic allied characters from the movies in it. This wouldn't be so horrible except he refuses to allow her to engage any New Republic force with anything remotely near close to having enough power to be any kind of threat to her forces without giving the New Republic a hero to save the day.

Two examples of battles Daala wins while Anderson was writing her

1: 3 Imperial-I class Star Destroyers versus 1 CR90 Corvette. And I'm not even certain whether the corvette was a New Republic military vessel or a New Republic flagged civilian vessel.

2: A full ground assault force, Stormtroopers, AT-ATs, and AT-STs, versus a colony whose only defense is one light anti-vehicle Ion cannon which was literally assembled during the battle.

The only even moderately sized fleet she wins against is a pirate fleet which is still massively outgunned by her force and Anderson makes sure to make it abundantly clear that their crews are drawn from the bottom of the barrel.

If he wanted her to be a credible threat he could have easily given her a couple of wins against a decent force like say 2 or 3 MC80s and support vessels. The fact the failed to do so makes it clear to me that he was ting to state that a woman couldn't earn flag rank by being competent she had to sleep her way to it while being utterly incompetent.

Plus he was one of the leaders of the 'My superweapon is better then yours movement' including superweapons in every Star Wars novel or trilogy he wrote and creating a ship the size of a large fighter or small shuttle which could not only destroy stars but could actually survive the shockwave of a supernova which started in the solar system it took the hit in and only sustain minor damage.

He also claimed that the Executor was one of a kind until a second Executor class ship was built around 8 years post Endor despite another Executor class ship appearing in a novel set about 4 years post Endor before the book in question was written and Han saying that "There are a lot of command ships" in response to Executor's presence at Endor in Return of the Jedi.

I review recently released or recently re-released scifi books for my best friend's blog and I'm hoping they re-release Darksaber soon so I can rip it to shreds.

Aderson makes a big deal about how Daala is supposed to be a tactical genius but refuses to let her defeat any NR force that has New Republic allied characters from the movies in it. This wouldn't be so horrible except he refuses to allow her to engage any New Republic force with anything remotely near close to having enough power to be any kind of threat to her forces without giving the New Republic a hero to save the day.

Two examples of battles Daala wins while Anderson was writing her

1: 3 Imperial-I class Star Destroyers versus 1 CR90 Corvette. And I'm not even certain whether the corvette was a New Republic military vessel or a New Republic flagged civilian vessel.

2: A full ground assault force, Stormtroopers, AT-ATs, and AT-STs, versus a colony whose only defense is one light anti-vehicle Ion cannon which was literally assembled during the battle.

The only even moderately sized fleet she wins against is a pirate fleet which is still massively outgunned by her force and Anderson makes sure to make it abundantly clear that their crews are drawn from the bottom of the barrel.

If he wanted her to be a credible threat he could have easily given her a couple of wins against a decent force like say 2 or 3 MC80s and support vessels. The fact the failed to do so makes it clear to me that he was ting to state that a woman couldn't earn flag rank by being competent she had to sleep her way to it while being utterly incompetent.

Plus he was one of the leaders of the 'My superweapon is better then yours movement' including superweapons in every Star Wars novel or trilogy he wrote and creating a ship the size of a large fighter or small shuttle which could not only destroy stars but could actually survive the shockwave of a supernova which started in the solar system it took the hit in and only sustain minor damage.

He also claimed that the Executor was one of a kind until a second Executor class ship was built around 8 years post Endor despite another Executor class ship appearing in a novel set about 4 years post Endor before the book in question was written and Han saying that "There are a lot of command ships" in response to Executor's presence at Endor in Return of the Jedi.

I review recently released or recently re-released scifi books for my best friend's blog and I'm hoping they re-release Darksaber soon so I can rip it to shreds.

I mean I've tried to manage my way through his non Star Wars books. It's... Well there wasn't a lot of try.

I might buy that if he hadn't gone out of his way to establish 1: That female flag officers in the Empire were basically unheard of (Some very late EU articles on the Star Wars blog established one other whose records were expunged from the Imperial military archives after she went pirate) 2: That Daala and Tarkin were lovers implying that she slept her way to the top a theory supported by her performance in the battles he wrote.

For people like me never reading any SW novels, is he comparable to Matt Ward in his lousiness? And could somebody gave a few words how SW:TOR fits the background? I enjoyed it a few months, as the leveling progress was feeling like a KOTOR 3, and only gave up as the endgame part was mediocre at best. Anyway, the universe it was drawing seemed convincing to me, as it was much more diverse than the movies good guys / bad guys BS. There was motivation behind each character, you not necessarily had to play a pure evil sith or good jedi, it all was a matter of perspective. You could play jedi and still use ways to complete your goals which had a lot in common with what any movie sith would do..

If there would be a wishlist for Ep 7, thats something I would like to see. Realistically drawn characters with motivations that matter, heroes who have to do something bad in order to save something greater.

For myself, I've never understood why the Empire can be generaly oppressive, have storm troopers, torture prisioners, and destroy planets, but "sexist" is just comic-book-villin stuff.

For myself, I've never understood why the Empire can be generaly oppressive, have storm troopers, torture prisioners, and destroy planets, but "sexist" is just comic-book-villin stuff.

I guess everything else has some semblance of immediate logic for a totalitarian regime and an easy parallel to reality, but sexism (while relevant) just seems stupid

It's like the "villain explains plan instead of killing hero" trope, it's highly illogical and only serves to clumsily show that we shouldn't be on their side

An exploitative, totalitarian, oppressive, jack-booted, and torture-using empire fits with their "talk loudly and carry a GIANT STAR DESTROYER' policy where their idea of subtlety is a land invasion with giant dinosaur mechs

you'd have to weave sexism into that somehow in a way that illustrates the character of the empire (stuck in the old ways, not terribly forward thinking, easy political scapegoating). In general, though, it's just not an easy trope to invoke without creating flat characters.

Interesting points. I guess I ment to say make it like the OT where both parents and kids can enjoy the films, hence All Ages. Don't Dumb it down for kids and stay away from the PT mistakes. But keep the theme to a level that Kids can enjoy but the story good enough that the parents don't regret going.

In other words if they followed the same path as the OT it will be amazing. But the story was told in such a way that kids could understand and the violence, even in battles, was not over the top. In other words when I think of my son he hates to see blood and faces being disfigured. There is a method to how violence is shown that can be the difference between adult and all age acceptance.

I guess it is hard to explain without saying just look at it through a child's eyes. My son will be 9 this December so he is going to be at the bottom of the targeted age group am I would be disappointed if they did the same thing they did to Superman. (Not saying it was a good adult movie but it was too adult for my kid. In fact most of the Super Hero movies now days are made more for adults. Though I do like the direction Marvel/Disney are going. My son would freak out with Heath Ledgers Joker.) And even though I enjoyed most of the modern Super Hero movies they are still not like the Superman from my childhood. I just wouldn't want them to do that with Star Wars either.

I find it strange that the Empire, with thousands of different species and trillions of inhabitants is bigoted to all but Humans. I don't see it in the movies other than the Imperial army being all human (which was the case with the Rebels until we got pancake face, and Admiral Ackbar and his retinue in RotJ).

I mean, hate the prequels all you want, but the atmosphere and the hundreds of different species making up the government was really neat and I find it odd that 20 years later they are all shunned (even though it makes no sense to shun them).

I can't help but feel the Empire had to be even more "evil" in the EU to justify many of the stories (again, not that blowing up a planet and having Lightning McFingers as your ruler is pretty self explanatory). Now, the Idea of Work camps for "Political Prisoners" is in my opinion the exact thing I would see the Empire do.

For myself, I've never understood why the Empire can be generaly oppressive, have storm troopers, torture prisioners, and destroy planets, but "sexist" is just comic-book-villin stuff.

It's because next to everything else it makes no sense. It just strikes as me as a petty thing. Why would the Emperor care what gender (or even species) you were if you served him with absolute loyalty? I feels shoe horned in. The movies did a decent job showing the Empire doing it's thing (Lukes Uncle and Aunt are a prime example) and the need to say "Well, they also hate aliens and women too!".

It just feels tacked on and is part of the crappy EU we had for years. It needs to either be rethought or scrapped like the rest of the EU.

Interesting points. I guess I ment to say make it like the OT where both parents and kids can enjoy the films, hence All Ages. Don't Dumb it down for kids and stay away from the PT mistakes. But keep the theme to a level that Kids can enjoy but the story good enough that the parents don't regret going.

In other words if they followed the same path as the OT it will be amazing. But the story was told in such a way that kids could understand and the violence, even in battles, was not over the top. In other words when I think of my son he hates to see blood and faces being disfigured. There is a method to how violence is shown that can be the difference between adult and all age acceptance.

I guess it is hard to explain without saying just look at it through a child's eyes. My son will be 9 this December so he is going to be at the bottom of the targeted age group am I would be disappointed if they did the same thing they did to Superman. (Not saying it was a good adult movie but it was too adult for my kid. In fact most of the Super Hero movies now days are made more for adults. Though I do like the direction Marvel/Disney are going. My son would freak out with Heath Ledgers Joker.) And even though I enjoyed most of the modern Super Hero movies they are still not like the Superman from my childhood. I just wouldn't want them to do that with Star Wars either.

ouch, I feel you on the incredibly gritty adaptions there. It's going to be hard to enjoy a family friendly ip with things like the Nolan movies

But, to be fair, when we're talking about these giant, expansive IPs like comic book icons there's going to be tons upon tons of material to choose from.

You don't have to go through the train-wreck of Man of Steel, for example, because the Justice League cartons exist

(why those haven't been adapted into movies is well beyond me)

if similar happens to star wars, we'll have many other "Star Wars" mediums to enjoy. But judging from the new movie, you're going to have to go into novels and comics to find the "grittier" stuff.

EDIT: oh god, I meant the Justice LEague cartons with the martian manhunter

I still remember ye old Justice League with batman, robin, aquaman etc.

There was one episode where THE LEGION OF DOOM was trying to change the planet's atmosphere...for some reason

One of the plots was sinestro throwing meteors at the earth.

Green Lantern, in his infinite wisdom, saved the planet by moving the earth out of the way (only logical, his ring wouldn't work on the yellow meteors...)

Even when I was young and didn't understand the literally earth-shattering ramifications, all I could think of was "Nice job, Green Lantern! Now...put it back?"

Interesting points. I guess I ment to say make it like the OT where both parents and kids can enjoy the films, hence All Ages. Don't Dumb it down for kids and stay away from the PT mistakes. But keep the theme to a level that Kids can enjoy but the story good enough that the parents don't regret going.

In other words if they followed the same path as the OT it will be amazing. But the story was told in such a way that kids could understand and the violence, even in battles, was not over the top. In other words when I think of my son he hates to see blood and faces being disfigured. There is a method to how violence is shown that can be the difference between adult and all age acceptance.

I guess it is hard to explain without saying just look at it through a child's eyes. My son will be 9 this December so he is going to be at the bottom of the targeted age group am I would be disappointed if they did the same thing they did to Superman. (Not saying it was a good adult movie but it was too adult for my kid. In fact most of the Super Hero movies now days are made more for adults. Though I do like the direction Marvel/Disney are going. My son would freak out with Heath Ledgers Joker.) And even though I enjoyed most of the modern Super Hero movies they are still not like the Superman from my childhood. I just wouldn't want them to do that with Star Wars either.

ouch, I feel you on the incredibly gritty adaptions there. It's going to be hard to enjoy a family friendly ip with things like the Nolan movies

But, to be fair, when we're talking about these giant, expansive IPs like comic book icons there's going to be tons upon tons of material to choose from.

You don't have to go through the train-wreck of Man of Steel, for example, because the Justice League cartons exist

(why those haven't been adapted into movies is well beyond me)

if similar happens to star wars, we'll have many other "Star Wars" mediums to enjoy. But judging from the new movie, you're going to have to go into novels and comics to find the "grittier" stuff.

But yes, with the current people in charge of Star Wars I don't think I will have an issue bringing my son.

Part of the point of stories is to teach children. To some degree all stories even those aimed at kids should show things that adults do and quandries that adults face. The problem is always where the line of "too much for kids" should be drawn. I remember being asked if "The Last of Us" was appropriate for a twelve year old and replying, "It depends on the twelve year old."

There is some horrible crap in the world and while we need to protect children from it, we also need to teach them how to face it.

For myself, I've never understood why the Empire can be generaly oppressive, have storm troopers, torture prisioners, and destroy planets, but "sexist" is just comic-book-villin stuff.

It's because next to everything else it makes no sense. It just strikes as me as a petty thing. Why would the Emperor care what gender (or even species) you were if you served him with absolute loyalty? I feels shoe horned in. The movies did a decent job showing the Empire doing it's thing (Lukes Uncle and Aunt are a prime example) and the need to say "Well, they also hate aliens and women too!".

It just feels tacked on and is part of the crappy EU we had for years. It needs to either be rethought or scrapped like the rest of the EU.

I don't think it's tacked on. The Nazis were highly sexist too, and the Empire resembles them a lot. Even today's 'inclusive' military and politics are still highly sexist. And I don't doubt that the Empire was specieist either, see the reaction to Chewbacca and what not.

But I also enjoyed most parts of the Legends EU, where a lot of the speciesismcame from. So I'm pretty biased.

I'm glad the New Order seems to be more inclusive. I always like it when bad guys are female. It's so tiring to see the boring old trope that all women are fragile, precious, unfighting creatures.

For myself, I've never understood why the Empire can be generaly oppressive, have storm troopers, torture prisioners, and destroy planets, but "sexist" is just comic-book-villin stuff.

It's because next to everything else it makes no sense. It just strikes as me as a petty thing. Why would the Emperor care what gender (or even species) you were if you served him with absolute loyalty? I feels shoe horned in. The movies did a decent job showing the Empire doing it's thing (Lukes Uncle and Aunt are a prime example) and the need to say "Well, they also hate aliens and women too!".

It just feels tacked on and is part of the crappy EU we had for years. It needs to either be rethought or scrapped like the rest of the EU.

I don't think it's tacked on. The Nazis were highly sexist too, and the Empire resembles them a lot. Even today's 'inclusive' military and politics are still highly sexist. And I don't doubt that the Empire was specieist either, see the reaction to Chewbacca and what not.

"Bounty Hunters!? We don't need their scum!"

*cut to alien dinosaur man*

and of course, who ends up getting solo? The one human of the lot