CRB191, shortened barrel "[r]educes the difficulty of checks made to conceal this weapon by one."

CRB153, Concealing Gear, says that (if someone is looking/doing a pat down) they make an opposed Perception check.

Meaning that the searcher is rolling Perception against my Stealth to find my shortened-barrelled blaster. So there is no check for me to conceal the weapon, and thus no difficulty to reduce. Not to mention that opposed rolls don't have a set difficulty (Simple, Easy, Average, etc) to reduce—they're based off of characteristic + skill.

So is the shortened barrel intended to make a blaster pistol into a more powerful (+1 damage/-1 crit) holdout blaster? If so, shouldn't the mod add setback dice to the Perception check to find it, like the holdout blaster has?

Any insight or input welcome.

-EF

I believe it is the opposite, a Stealth check(you) against the Perception(NPC). If a PC is concealing a weapon beneath his jacket, he is actively hiding it against the person patting him down. The person doing the pat down uses Perception to determine if he feels or sees the weapon.

Stealth Roll (Proficiency and Ability Dice) vs Perception (Challenge for Proficiency and Difficulty for Ability) as Difficulty - 1 Difficulty for the Shortened Barrel attachment on the weapon. Shortened Barrels do not modify damage and Crit ratings.

But the book says that the searcher rolls, not the concealer.

And I know that shortened barrels don't modify damage or crit rating. I was referring adding the shortened barrel to a blaster pistol. Blaster pistols have increased damage and better crit rating than holdout blasters, and the barrel makes them have the same range (Short).

-EF

But the book says that the searcher rolls, not the concealer.

Read it again. It doesn't say that. It merely says the difficulty for stealth is typically opposed perception, and visa versa. It doesn't define who rolls, technically allowing it to be run either way.

The rules require a bit of interpretation. The opposed check is in regards to active searching, so a pat down, opening a coat and looking in a waist band, up close inspection etc. Passively is whether or not it's obvious there is something under a coat or whatever and can be seen obviously by someone. ie "Is that a blaster in your pocket or are you just happy to see me."

A pocket blaster shouldn't even be passively obvious with a 1 enc, whereas a shortened barrel blaster might be spotted.

It's not a terribly elegant rule set over this regardless.

Read it again. It doesn't say that. It merely says the difficulty for stealth is typically opposed perception, and visa versa. It doesn't define who rolls, technically allowing it to be run either way.

I just did, and it does. "…the searcher makes an opposed Perception check against the target's Stealth" (CRB153). I'm the target, not the searcher. According to CRB24 an opposed check is when the active party—in this case not me, since I'm being searched—creates a dice pool like normal, but the difficulty is based on the target's characteristic/skill.

@2P51: No blaster pistol, with the exception of the heavy blaster pistol (at 2 enc), is passively obvious. Any item with an enc of 1 or less that wants to be hidden is hidden, unless an active search is performed. And that's where the shortened barrel comes in. It is supposed to make a blaster pistol less obvious, but as it's written it doesn't do that. It reduces the difficulty of checks made to conceal it—but such checks don't exist.

I'm wondering what other options there may be. The holdout blaster add a Setback Die to the searcher's roll, so should the shortened barrel do that, too? Add a Difficulty Die? Upgrade the difficulty to notice the weapon?

Or should I just roll Stealth against their Perception, and remove a Difficulty Die? What happens if there are no Difficulty Dice to remove? For example 2 Cunning/Perception, so it's just 2 Challenge Dice?

-EF

You're assuming it's only either or. If someone told me they wanted to conceal their hvy blaster on their person before they leave the ship, I'd come up with a Difficulty factoring in the environment and how much clothing they can wear, their race, etc, and have them roll. If they're successful then as their buddies look at them they say "yup, you're good I don't see it at all" and they go about their merry way with a hvy blaster pistol concealed from passive perception. If they have a shortened barrel on them, it's easier.

But what about a regular blaster pistol? It isn't passively obvious. Does the shortened barrel aid when being patted down?

-EF

No, because it isn't a holdout blaster. This requires some imagination on the part of your GM. So maybe the scenario is you're all undercover in Surf City at that equator on Corellia and everyone is wearing high cut Bermudas and tank tops. So the GM says only holdouts can still be auto concealed against passive perception, every other kind has to roll a Stealth check and you have a shortened barrel light or reg blaster which helps.

A holdout's bonus is once they're patting you down, opening your jacket, lifting your shirt from your waist. It's so tiny maybe it's in a big cowboy belt buckle, maybe it's in the bottom of your shoe, maybe it's half up your prison locker, etc. Use you imagination for an explanation of course.

Read it again. It doesn't say that. It merely says the difficulty for stealth is typically opposed perception, and visa versa. It doesn't define who rolls, technically allowing it to be run either way.

I just did, and it does. "…the searcher makes an opposed Perception check against the target's Stealth" (CRB153). I'm the target, not the searcher. According to CRB24 an opposed check is when the active party—in this case not me, since I'm being searched—creates a dice pool like normal, but the difficulty is based on the target's characteristic/skill.

Right, but pg 118 says its Stealth vs. Perception to do the exact same thing.

So it can go either way depending on how the gm wants that scene to run.

And just to add to the confusion, I'm pretty sure I've seen Skulduggery vs. Perception too somewhere. I think this is one of those places where the GM just has to come up with something that works and get things moving.

Yeah, the rules on concealing items don't really jive too well with what attachments like the Filed Front Sight and Shortened Barrel do, since most Encumbrance 1 items (such as blaster pistols and unactivated lightsabers) can be hidden from sight (i.e. a passive check) automatically. I ran into this when working a two-part hilt attachment a while back, as I'd initially used those attachments as a guideline, only to run into the same issue as EldritchFire when I later went back and re-read the rules on concealing items.

As a personal house rule, I treat those two items as instead increasing the difficulty of the searcher's Perception check by one. Though if a GM wanted to stick with what was written, they could use the difficulty decrease for the Skulduggery check, with the number of successes rolled setting the threshold of successes that a Perception check would have to beat in order to notice the concealed weapon.

1. go with the increasing difficulty for the NPC's perception roll aginst the PC's Stealth, essentially pretending your ability score is 1 higher for the check, so adding an extra purple to the pool. AAPDCC becomes AAPDDCC
2. inversely you could go with downgrading the NPC's ability dice by 1, so 1 less green or downgrade a proficiency yellow to a green if the pool had been all proficiency. AAPDCC becomes APDCC
3. Allow the player to roll their Stealth vs NPC's Perception/Vigilance so the PC rolls APPDDC

My personal preference is to give PC's more of the dice rolls, i have enough to do and think about, describing all their setback and despair, as well as tracking plots, keeping up with their changes of direction etc.

Giving the PC's more rolls can make for more interesting cinematic moments as they are more engaged in the situation, and need to describe the results creatively, rather than the GM always explaining the situation:

1 PC saying "i create i minor distraction and deftly rotate my body at the right moment so the Bouncer doesn't notice the blaster pistol in my pocket"

is better for the table than the GM having to do all the creativity "you get past the bouncer without her noticing you Pistol"

its less work for the GM!

You're assuming it's only either or. If someone told me they wanted to conceal their hvy blaster on their person before they leave the ship, I'd come up with a Difficulty factoring in the environment and how much clothing they can wear, their race, etc, and have them roll. If they're successful then as their buddies look at them they say "yup, you're good I don't see it at all" and they go about their merry way with a hvy blaster pistol concealed from passive perception. If they have a shortened barrel on them, it's easier.

2P51 hits the nail on the head, although it confuses the reader in regarding to the usual roll needed to be made in concealment scenario.

If you want to hide something, you roll. Moreover, the searcher or observer rolls to find it.

The mod refers to the first method, and some items will also have the benefit of not being found, regardless of the concealment roll.