end of move. timing of damage vs. obstacles

By omegalazarus, in Star Wars: Armada Rules Questions

This came up today and I couldn't find a full answer and made a mutually agreed ruling on the spot (based on a quick look and discussion). However, I found enough inference to make an educated decision. I am posting this resolution to help others, by reference. No matter if we all figure out that I'm correct or incorrect.

The question: which comes first; resolving collision damage, or resolving obstacles.

Unspecified Rules: collision/overlap damage is unique in its application at the end of movement, but not specified beyond that.

Actual situation - I began movement on the space station with an undamaged Neb B. I moved into a Star Destroyer (yes. I am one of those rebel players) so much that I had to move back to"zero." At that point, Two things happened. 1- I took one damage card from a collision. 2- I removed one damage card for overlapping the space station. BUT, WHICH HAPPENED FIRST?

My answer after careful reading - The damage card is removed.

Logic- there are two distinct phases that can damage a ship during maneuver. One At the end of a maneuver, where a ship may take collision damage. Another after the maneuver is over, where a ship may take asteroid/debris damage- or heal if on the station.

Citation- RR pg 8

"Obstacles" leading paragraph. "When a ship..."

"Overlapping" second paragraph "If a ship..."

Second Bullet Point "Even if a..."

Interpretation - to me, these paragraphs seem to say that there is a point where your ship is maneuvering and may take damage from a collision. Then, there is a separate point, immediately after, where it has finished its maneuver and resolves obstacles.

Dissent - They don't directly even say this bit of timing exists, even though the RR section on"Overlapping" on pg 8 gives a perfect setting to do this.

"Overlapping" Third paragraph "If a moving..." makes it seem that obstacles may resolve while the ship is still moving. This goes against what I interpreted earlier.

Alternate resolution - they happen simultaneously (and the active player decides resolution order)

Why does it matter?

This situation where it makes the difference between having a hull damage or not.

A situation where a critical damage or an upgrade card makes damage from an obstacle more or less severe than damage from a collision.

I'd say that the collision damage happens first. You only step back in speed *because* of the collision. But you're right in that it's ambiguous.

I would say that based on "flavor", the collision happens first (it does happen first, then your ship isn't able to move fully.)

Of course flavor only counts for so much in a game with rules. In which case, I favor the activating player controlling the timing of two simultaneous events (where these are both simultaneous, because they are both the end result of your movement.)

I think it makes more sense for the collision to happen first, but the Overlapping rules say you do the process of attempting the movement at lower and lower speeds "until the ship can finish its maneuver", " then deal one facedown damage card." The wording makes it sound like you finish the maneuver at the lower speed, meaning that would be the time to resolve "if a moving ship overlaps an obstacle token", and then you deal one facedown damage card.

Reference Rules,p8, "Obstacles"

"When a ship or squadron overlaps an obstacle after executing a maneuver , it resolves an effect that depends on the type of obstacle it overlapped:" (emphasize mine)

"Overlapping"

"If a ship executes a maneuver and its final position would overlap another ship, it cannot finish its maneuver normally. Instead, temporarily reduce its speed by one (without changing the speed dial) and move the ship at the new speed. This process continues until the ship can finish its maneuver, even if that maneuver is to remain in place at speed “0.” Then deal one facedown damage card to the ship that moved and the closest ship that it overlapped."
The obstacle effect triggers AFTER executing a maneuver. A collision and its effect do not have an "after trigger" and therefore happen during the resolution of a maneuver. The obstacle effect cannot be resolved before the maneuver has been completely resolved with all it does.
Hence you first receive the damage card from colliding and then resolve the station effect to remove the card.

Edit: And even if you interpret the "then" in the collision as an "after effect", which would have no basis in the written rules, then you would have two effects triggering simultaneously and would be free to choose the order they resolve in. This might make a difference if the collision damage would destroy the ship. But I believe this would be incorrect and the order is determined.
Edited by chrisdk