At what point in setup are opposing fleets revealed? Most importantly, is it before or after choosing the objective? I know that points are revealed in step 3, but the rules never specify when you can start looking at your opponents ships and upgrades.

Tournament rules indicate players have to give the organizers their fleet list before playing. Given that, I assume same goes for casual play ... players build their fleets in secret, including their objective cards. No changes can be made from that once you've advised you're ready. Then both sides reveal everything BUT the objective cards.

Once initiative is determined, the first player looks at the three objective cards of the second player and picks one. Basically, this is to prevent the player with the lowest point score choosing whether to be first or second player ahead of time based on what the other person has as objective cards.

It seems so, but I think it sucks.

In the tournament guide it specifically says "Both players reveal all ships, squadrons, and upgrade cards in their fleets. Players do not reveal their objective cards"

The rules reference guide never makes any mention of objective cards until it comes time for player 1 to choose, so apparently not. The fleet components are gathered prior to the determine initiative step, but doesnt specifically state any "reveal" either, but this would be the most logical point as they are on the tableside now.

Makes sense, thanks guys.

Sorry to necro this thread...why is this a thing? She who sends a mate to check out the other games and see what other players objectives are gets an advantage over the lone player come round two...terrible idea!

Why is what a thing, exactly?

Coz some people will do anything to get an advantage?

If objectives were open from reveal, there would be no unfair advantage to gain from being part of a team, not alone, etc

If objectives were open from reveal, there would be no unfair advantage to gain from being part of a team, not alone, etc

I can see where you are coming from, but I don't think it will be that much of an issue as the game matures, nor do I think it will be an unfair advantage to people who attend tournaments with a group of friends.

There simply aren't that many objectives, and most are specialized to favour particular list archetypes. When lists are revealed, I feel as though the player with the initiative bid should, in most cases, be able to eliminate objectives that their opponent did not take (i.e. a low ship count list with Most Wanted, intel sweep with an all Vic or all Neb list etc). From there, you can make an educated guess as to what they did take.

If objectives were open from reveal, there would be no unfair advantage to gain from being part of a team, not alone, etc

Where is the unfair advantage here?

I would gladly show my objectives to everyone at a tourney, and they wouldn't have to show me theirs....still wouldn't matter. I only ever have one objective, and that's to destroy the enemy capital ships as fast as possible.

Sorry to necro this thread...why is this a thing? She who sends a mate to check out the other games and see what other players objectives are gets an advantage over the lone player come round two...terrible idea!

Scouting is more trouble that it is worth.

I was playing on the weekend and only put the mission we were playing out, so if you did scout you would have never known my mix of missions, just the one I had out. To get reliable intel back from scouting out the players you would have to take at least 3 rounds and maybe more.

You also have to under bid me, in order to get the choice of playing first or second. Otherwise that choice isn't yours.

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Most players who are going under points are doing so for a specific reason, they couldn't spend all their points (so at 298 they win initiative by accident), they want to play first or they want to play second. So, if you do learn about my missions, and you have underbid me and you planned to play second, just how likely are you to now change your mind and allow me to play second?

A co-ordinated team of players could scout the tables better as they could learn about some of their opponents missions by either making them play second or being underbid. But here again, if you are being underbid the choice isn't yours and if you are underbidding would knowing my missions give you enough intel to change tactics?

Best way to scout is to have a look at the sheets the players submit to the TO

But since you can't change your ships or your objectives anyway, what good does it do for you, really? Less pressure once it's time to choose the objectives, maybe help you in deciding whether you want to go first or second, but honestly, I make the decision of going 1st or 2nd based on his fleet composition, not his objective cards. Certain fleets go for certain cards (a 2-VSD build won't do Intel Sweep.... or at least I hope not!) so that kinda gives you an idea. Maybe if we had more than 12 cards to choose from....

This isn't like MTG where you have a side deck of cards that you can use to tweak your fleet with.

Best way to scout is to have a look at the sheets the players submit to the TO

ROTFLMAO I hadn't thought of that.

IMO, People who engage in that sort of behavior are welcome to whatever advantage they might get from it. I guess I just trust in any bad karma to come their way when they act in bad faith.

The dice are watching you.