Eh, the B-wing's a pretty nicely made ship. It's a slow but powerful fighter with odd flight behaviours. Screwing with it doesn't help anything really.

Exactly. I really ask myself why anyone would nerf the B-Wing and who those people are.

1 point more, one less shield? Why? The B-Wing is not dominating the meta or anything similar. It's just a solid ship nothing more, and its named pilots are not even very good and overcosted except for Farlander maybe.

And that they say this would be beneficial for the X-Wing really shows they don't understand anything. This whole theory that the X-Wing just suffers because the B-Wing is a little better is borderline silly anyways.

The X-Wing is a bad ship because it's bad in comparison to most other ships in efficiency and has no real role to fill actually. Not only compared to other Rebel ships but compared to nearly all ships.

So okay let's nerf the B-Wing, and then the Tie Fighter, The Z-95, the IG, the Interceptor, the Phantom, the new Advanced etc.

Or just bring the X-Wing finally up to par and stop these silly masked tries to stop the inevitable from happening.

Psst... Maybe you should actually read entire posts rather than getting all hot and bothered and then jumping to the same conclusion of the post that has you all hot and bothered.

I also entirely agree with TIE Pilot and i say it. I didnt say anything against his post. So maybe you should read my post again!

Also the OPs proposition to give a 2 point discount and give it another cannon slot is just a huge nerf to the ship, nothing more!

19 point Mangler Bs?

I'll take 5!!!

Yes i was overstating the case but a 2 Atk B would probably not be worth a lot more than 15-16 points, right?

Tie bombers have about the same strength dial (little better) with no shields, less hp, no system slot, no crew, no cannon (all very good upgrades to have access to) and 1 more agility with more ordnance slots... So no probably not 16

Eh, the B-wing's a pretty nicely made ship. It's a slow but powerful fighter with odd flight behaviours. Screwing with it doesn't help anything really.

Exactly. I really ask myself why anyone would nerf the B-Wing and who those people are.

1 point more, one less shield? Why? The B-Wing is not dominating the meta or anything similar. It's just a solid ship nothing more, and its named pilots are not even very good and overcosted except for Farlander maybe.

And that they say this would be beneficial for the X-Wing really shows they don't understand anything. This whole theory that the X-Wing just suffers because the B-Wing is a little better is borderline silly anyways.

The X-Wing is a bad ship because it's bad in comparison to most other ships in efficiency and has no real role to fill actually. Not only compared to other Rebel ships but compared to nearly all ships.

So okay let's nerf the B-Wing, and then the Tie Fighter, The Z-95, the IG, the Interceptor, the Phantom, the new Advanced etc.

Or just bring the X-Wing finally up to par and stop these silly masked tries to stop the inevitable from happening.

Psst... Maybe you should actually read entire posts rather than getting all hot and bothered and then jumping to the same conclusion of the post that has you all hot and bothered.

I read every single post, and while i know it was just a proposition from the thread OP, 2-3 guys just start to yell "Nerf the B-Wing" which is totally uncalled for.

I also entirely agree with TIE Pilot and i say it. I didnt say anything against his post. So maybe you should read my post again!

Also the OPs proposition to give a 2 point discount and give it another cannon slot is just a huge nerf to the ship, nothing more!

I don't see a lot of others using exclamation points right after their points... someone might need to checking out how yelling works and deep breathing before pushing post.

Warning: Potentially controversial ideas ahead!

In-universe, the standard armament for the B-Wing is:

-Three Ion Cannons

-One Heavy Laser Cannon

-Two Proton Torpedo Launchers

-Two Autoblasters

Notice something missing from the list? The B-Wing doesn't have any traditional blaster or laser weaponry, and in-universe it relies upon weapons that we equip as upgrades. So, how I would change the B-Wing if I could: Reduce its Primary Weapon Value to one or zero, add a second cannon slot, and possibly reduce its cost by one or two points.

Obviously, this would kill off BBBBZ, Panic Attack, and similar builds that rely on the B-Wing's price point, but it would also bring the X-Wing back as the go-to 3-attack Rebel ship, in addition to giving the B-Wing a distinct niche - that of the Rebel cannon-toting starfighter. Currently, B-Wings with cannon upgrades are viable ships, even with their three attack, so a B-Wing with zero or one Primary attack but slightly reduced price would become an even more attractive cannon carrier. A single cannon or an Accuracy Corrector would be necessary to get any use out of the starfighter, but I don't think that's a bad thing. Now, of course, this would render the B-Wing extremely vulnerable to Munitions Failure critical hits...but that's a stupid crit anyway, as a good portion of the ships in the game ignore it completely.

Something like this won't happen, as the B-Wing's statline is pretty set in stone...but I thought it'd be a neat change that makes the B-Wing more thematic, gives it a very distinct purpose, and would return the X-Wing to its former glory.

So by that logic the Firespray should have 0, and the YT's and Deci should have 0 as well. That's why the attack dice are representations, which is why X-wing only gets 3 die when it has 4 cannons, same with the Tie defender. It's also the same reason that turret wing ships get the attack dice the do.

The B-wing already has a distinctive niche- Jouster. Changing the B to make it upgrade heavy doesn't help it at all. Reducing the squad point costs by 2 just makes it a really fancy A-wing. Also the B is already an attractive Ion cannon carrier, swooping in and limiting turret wing ships movements. Also look at Nera's special ability, it screams "Take Proton torps!" As well. The E/2 mod gives it good pilot ability card options.

It also would do nothing to help the X-wing. with BBBBZ gone, people would go back to Fat Han(not that it really left, although it has been nerfed it's still scary). Z-95 swarm, maybe A wing swarm... or even...(I dare say it, because I want to try this even though i'm not buying any more) "smugglers guild squad" 3x Yt-1300's, generic pilots, with some upgrades.

Also forcing players to take upgrades on a ship when the core of the game is building your ships/squad the way you want to? I'd start listing my models on ebay right now. Sure in competitive you will need certain ships/cards to counter your opponent, but there is no sense in punishing casual players for it.

All this would do is give Rebels one terribly bad ship. The X-Wing has problems, but nerfing others ships on the same side would not make the X-Wing a better ship choice.

Also forcing players to take upgrades on a ship when the core of the game is building your ships/squad the way you want to?

Well, you can take naked Y-wings if you really want to...

I vote we start a new saying

"The bwing isn't keeping the xwing from being played,(the xwing is keeping the xwing from being played)/(the ptl or predator + calculations green squadron awing is keeping the xwing from seeing play)

Pick your preference

Also forcing players to take upgrades on a ship when the core of the game is building your ships/squad the way you want to?

Well, you can take naked Y-wings if you really want to...

I don't see a problem with ships that are designed to require upgrades (Provided you have more than one choice for said upgrade, and the ship is released with viable upgrades). And, frankly, that ship flew awhile ago (no pun intended)- Do you see any naked Hwk-290s or Y-wings? And somehow I doubt we'll see any naked K-wings or Punishers, either*.

*We also don't really see naked Decimators or YT-series freightors, either, but I don't think Falcons or Decimators would be bad unupgraded per se.

Eh, the B-wing's a pretty nicely made ship. It's a slow but powerful fighter with odd flight behaviours. Screwing with it doesn't help anything really.

Exactly. I really ask myself why anyone would nerf the B-Wing and who those people are.

1 point more, one less shield? Why? The B-Wing is not dominating the meta or anything similar. It's just a solid ship nothing more, and its named pilots are not even very good and overcosted except for Farlander maybe.

And that they say this would be beneficial for the X-Wing really shows they don't understand anything. This whole theory that the X-Wing just suffers because the B-Wing is a little better is borderline silly anyways.

The X-Wing is a bad ship because it's bad in comparison to most other ships in efficiency and has no real role to fill actually. Not only compared to other Rebel ships but compared to nearly all ships.

So okay let's nerf the B-Wing, and then the Tie Fighter, The Z-95, the IG, the Interceptor, the Phantom, the new Advanced etc.

Or just bring the X-Wing finally up to par and stop these silly masked tries to stop the inevitable from happening.

Psst... Maybe you should actually read entire posts rather than getting all hot and bothered and then jumping to the same conclusion of the post that has you all hot and bothered.

I read every single post, and while i know it was just a proposition from the thread OP, 2-3 guys just start to yell "Nerf the B-Wing" which is totally uncalled for.

I also entirely agree with TIE Pilot and i say it. I didnt say anything against his post. So maybe you should read my post again!

Also the OPs proposition to give a 2 point discount and give it another cannon slot is just a huge nerf to the ship, nothing more!

I don't see a lot of others using exclamation points right after their points... someone might need to checking out how yelling works and deep breathing before pushing post.

...but some others wanted to turn this into a how to nerf the B-Wing thread. Which was not even the OPs intention.

Exactly.

I wasn't trying to say "nerf the B-Wing", I was trying to say "hey, if I could, I would make this change in an attempt to make the in-game B-Wing a bit closer to the background (which would give it a distinct purpose) without nerfing it to death." I was also trying to point out that I was mindful of the more obvious repercussions such a change would have.

In-universe, the B-Wing was a big, slow heavy assault ship that was horrible at dogfighting...and I dislike how it has become the Alliance's 'jack-of-all-trades' in X-Wing in defiance of its background.

Am I primarily an Empire player? Yes. Do I want to see every Rebel ship be unplayable? Not at all. I want the Rebels to be a perfectly competitive faction so people will play them and so tournaments don't devolve into mirror matches. I want the opposing force to be very effective - almost more effective than mine - so my victories are because of my skill, not because of my choice of faction. I want to see every ship - Imperial, Rebel, or Scum - be a viable choice in the most competitive settings. But I am also a gamer who adores the background, who wants to see the game reflect the source material, and who is bothered when a game doesn't accurately reflect the fluff, or sacrifices it in the name of gameplay or balance.

The B wing is one of the few rebel non turret ships that was designed properly, overall balanced and priced well.

I perfectly understood what you mean Beardface. The B-Wing normally should have a modular weaponry rather than an allround good weaponry.

But in this case a 2 point discount would just not be enough if yu strip attack dice and give it more cannon slots. More cannons are just redundant because unless you are a Y-Eing they do nothing for your damage output!

19 point Mangler Bs?

I'll take 5!!!

Yes i was overstating the case but a 2 Atk B would probably not be worth a lot more than 15-16 points, right?

For what it's worth (hah) my old spreadsheet I cooked up says dropping the B-wing down to 2 firepower would be a difference of about 5.5 points in value. So fair value would be 16-17ish. At that price it would retain its status as one of the better jousters in the game, as you'd get a lot of bulk and retain the barrel roll action for 17 points and that's still quite good. Accuracy Corrector would be an extremely interesting buy.

A new idea I've had for the X-wing would be to give it some versatility via a title. Say it had a title worth 2 points, where you could select any two (legal) modifications for free, but have to discard one before deployment begins. I dunno, the point remains that X-wings need some love and I'm confident FFG will give it to them. They have a good track record for retro-fitting older ships that aren't popular anymore.