I've taken a quick look, but are there any ships with 4 hull or cost under 50pts? I think there need to be some cheap ships. It seems like most ships have 5 hull and cost 60pts. Carrack, Lancer, and a few others might be good options for that.

http://armadashipyards.com/2015/08/29/imperial-customs-corvette/

http://armadashipyards.com/2015/08/29/tartan-class-patrol-cruiser/

http://armadashipyards.com/2015/08/30/cr92a-assassin-class-corvette/

http://armadashipyards.com/2015/08/30/dp20-frigate/

http://armadashipyards.com/2015/08/29/consular-class-light-cruiser/

http://armadashipyards.com/2015/08/30/modified-cr90-corvette/

EDIT: And I suppose http://armadashipyards.com/2015/08/29/vigil-class-corvette/ even if only just barely.

EDIT 2: Oh yeah, and the Communications Version of http://armadashipyards.com/2015/08/27/arquitens-class-light-cruiser/

EDIT 3: And the Gozanti. And all the transports.

EDIT 4: Are you sure you looked?

I was think

I've taken a quick look, but are there any ships with 4 hull or cost under 50pts? I think there need to be some cheap ships. It seems like most ships have 5 hull and cost 60pts. Carrack, Lancer, and a few others might be good options for that.

http://armadashipyards.com/2015/08/29/imperial-customs-corvette/

http://armadashipyards.com/2015/08/29/tartan-class-patrol-cruiser/

http://armadashipyards.com/2015/08/30/cr92a-assassin-class-corvette/

http://armadashipyards.com/2015/08/30/dp20-frigate/

http://armadashipyards.com/2015/08/29/consular-class-light-cruiser/

http://armadashipyards.com/2015/08/30/modified-cr90-corvette/

EDIT: And I suppose http://armadashipyards.com/2015/08/29/vigil-class-corvette/ even if only just barely.

EDIT 2: Oh yeah, and the Communications Version of http://armadashipyards.com/2015/08/27/arquitens-class-light-cruiser/

EDIT 3: And the Gozanti. And all the transports.

EDIT 4: Are you sure you looked?

I did say quick look and I was thinking more of mid-sized ships. Arquitens is a good example of what I had in mind. I guess I'm looking for more ships like that, not the small ships, which to my mind, are still over powered.

In the case of lacking good artwork let me know. I suggested using the real models in the card art where possible.

I did say quick look and I was thinking more of mid-sized ships. Arquitens is a good example of what I had in mind. I guess I'm looking for more ships like that, not the small ships, which to my mind, are still over powered.

Yeah, no worries, was just messin' with ya

I agree that small ships are grossly overpowered, not in terms of gameplay balance but in terms of how they are portrayed in the lore. But that was FFG's design choice, and whatever we may think about their reasons there simply is nothing we can do about it. Making custom ships in the "proper" damage scale at this point would be futile. I've pointed out many times before how narrow the gap between a Corvette and a VSD is in terms of damage output in Armada. There is a gap, of course, but there should be an order of magnitude . The main problem this creates for us is that there simply isn't much room for the large variety of small and medium craft that should fit in there.

Be that as it may, we have to live with it... or start from scratch, replacing the entire damage scale. Though the latter option has the potential to result in a game that is more "true" to the Star Wars lore, it is not without its share of problems. But, chiefly, it's simply outside the scope of the Shipyards project. I can imagine the guys who are working on fixed (non-sliding) 1/7000 scale fleets would be the right people to approach for this.

The gap between the CR90 & the VSD is narrow, but with all the possible arc/dice/upgrade slots/defensive token combinations I think it is possible to have originality in each class of ship.

We sure try

My point is that it's hard to feel a 400m ship feel appropriately scaled with respect to a 200m one, when a 900m VSD is only about twice as powerful as a 150m Corvette (which in turn has almost identical firepower, hull, shields and mobility as a 300m Nebulon).

Just as a random thought, would the Jade Shadow be a full-blown ship or a squadron (It's 55m long)? That's a very sexy vessel

I like the idea of a small and cheap escort ship like the Lancer but that AF weaponry seems a little strong...

^2

I did say quick look and I was thinking more of mid-sized ships. Arquitens is a good example of what I had in mind. I guess I'm looking for more ships like that, not the small ships, which to my mind, are still over powered.

Yeah, no worries, was just messin' with ya

I agree that small ships are grossly overpowered, not in terms of gameplay balance but in terms of how they are portrayed in the lore. But that was FFG's design choice, and whatever we may think about their reasons there simply is nothing we can do about it. Making custom ships in the "proper" damage scale at this point would be futile. I've pointed out many times before how narrow the gap between a Corvette and a VSD is in terms of damage output in Armada. There is a gap, of course, but there should be an order of magnitude . The main problem this creates for us is that there simply isn't much room for the large variety of small and medium craft that should fit in there.

Be that as it may, we have to live with it... or start from scratch, replacing the entire damage scale. Though the latter option has the potential to result in a game that is more "true" to the Star Wars lore, it is not without its share of problems. But, chiefly, it's simply outside the scope of the Shipyards project. I can imagine the guys who are working on fixed (non-sliding) 1/7000 scale fleets would be the right people to approach for this.

Ugh, please don't bring that up. I'm doing my best to ignore it and make as few changes as possible for now. And I still already have my starfighter movement rule and my hyperspace rule. Still since you mentioned it I need to go and write down some of these ideas for the future...

BTW what would be the cost of a damage reduction of 2 per shot taken for a large ship out of totally unrelated curiosity?

That Vindicator looks pretty awesome, it really fills a niche in the Imperial lineup. I will definitely need some when I finish my campaign rule set. They will make excellent escorts and patrol ships. I don't think it needs that much AF dice, though that may just be personal preference, relying of TIEs in my Imperial doctrine.

Just a thought, but the wiki entry makes it sound like a rough equivalent to a BC. Adding a support upgrade option would give it a bit more speed allowing it to fulfill that role better, maybe in place of the defense slot or the weapon teams.

I like the idea of a small and cheap escort ship like the Lancer but that AF weaponry seems a little strong...

^2

Anti-squadron was the only thing the Lancer was supposed to do. It was the Imperial answer to a bunch of snub fighters taking out the first Death Star.

True. To be fair I do remember this thing from Star Wars: Rebellion from way back when, I miss that game. On the other hand three anti-fighter dice seem a bit much for such a small ship. Not saying it is wrong only that the cheap price tag also allows you to take a bunch of them and overlap their fire power and/or cover more ground.

It might be problematic, though it may not. Enemy fighters will at least have a bombing run available to them before they get destroyed the next round, or two if commanded twice. Probably just needs testing...

^2

It is also VSD slow, and will need to be in the thick to make use of those anti-squadron dice. It is an absolute AS glass cannon. I love it!

Three AF dice won't happen on my watch. Like I said, those aren't "my" cards and there's good reasons for that

EDIT: Let me qualify that (only Sith deal in absolutes...). I'm massively skeptical of 3-AS ships, regardless of speed or other factors, so it would take a lot of convincing arguments. backed up by solid playtesting, to persuade me that something like that is viable.

Just working on the Vindicator write up right now. Seeing as its role was to be able to operate on its own in most cases, its primary configuration was starfighter heavy. Able to match the Imperial Class for Starfighter capability. May I suggest that the Starfighter heavy variant loses the Ion Cannon and offensive Retrofit upgrade slots and has squadron command 4 with only a single blue dice for anti-squadron? This would make the original variant the picket ship as it has the upgrade slots for Ions and Tractor Beams.

Either case the Vindicator is a heavy hitter in a small package meant to take the fight to an enemy.

I never thought to ask is it supposed to be on a medium or small base? Did we decide?

The Interdictor looks at home on a Small base (I'd like it to be Medium, but if you put it right next to a GSD it's obvious they should both belong in the same category), so I can't imagine this being any different.

Which, in turn, means I'm rather reluctant to give it Squadron 4... anyway, the "72" figure for starfighters mentioned on Wookieepedia appears to be based on a much less specific comment in Starships of the Galaxy ("a full wing of TIE fighters"). And it seems a little silly*. And it would step on the Ton Falk's toes.

I could see one of the versions having Squadron 3 and keeping both AS dice, but losing the Ion and Off Ret slots. And the other version simply reduced to 1 blue AS but otherwise unchanged from its current stats. Would that be a good compromise solution?

* (EDIT):

I don't remember a Carrack card, but I thought Wes did the Lancer. We still need both of those, and the Star Gallion.

Hopefully after the Clone Wars fleets are set time can be found.

The Carrack, Lancer and some others were part of a set I did as a commission for someone. Meaning with their choice of stats (not mine - I just put together the image), so these were never part of my "official" collection. For what it's worth, they can all still be found here . Perhaps they can serve as the starting point for future work on them. In any case I won't be making cards for ships for which no quality artwork is available.

But I am myself at odds with the power scaling of FFG. That's why I like to think the Cr90 represents a squadron of those and not a single corvette (and ordered fitting models from shape ways)

I don't mind that compramise at all. I was thinking medium ship but at small 3 Squadron is very reasonable.

I don't remember a Carrack card, but I thought Wes did the Lancer. We still need both of those, and the Star Gallion.

Hopefully after the Clone Wars fleets are set time can be found.

The Carrack, Lancer and some others were part of a set I did as a commission for someone. Meaning with their choice of stats (not mine - I just put together the image), so these were never part of my "official" collection. For what it's worth, they can all still be found here . Perhaps they can serve as the starting point for future work on them. In any case I won't be making cards for ships for which no quality artwork is available.

Arent there good artworks for Lancer and Carrack from Rebellion ?

But I am myself at odds with the power scaling of FFG. That's why I like to think the Cr90 represents a squadron of those and not a single corvette (and ordered fitting models from shape ways)

I understand the issue, but the gap is so narrow, because of game mechanics. Think of it this way, spread the gap between CR90 & VSD. Now spread the points accordingly. Now adjust everything else, and you end up with a several thousand point game just to have CR90s that fit the Canon. Honestly, I find the CR90 squadron to be the most eloquent compromise.

The idea of modeling the small ships in squadrons is a great wy to go about the visual.

It looks spectacular on the game table: http://imgur.com/a/clbxv

(...but before anyone asks, no, I won't be making squadron-based cards like the one for the Gozanti )

If I may continue with the Vindicator discussion, based on the Ion cannons being of point defence grade, would it not make more sense to lose that upgrade and provide a turbolaser upgrade instead? Being on a small base do you think 6 hitpoints is too much? Back to 5? There is no hard rule about hit points though so I am really not worried.

The way I see it, the "light" and "point defense" qualifiers on both Turbolasers and Ion Cannons are a license to choose whether or not we want to give it the corresponding upgrade slots. And you know what I think about these things (hint: whatever is more interesting for gameplay)

So I'd go for one version with and another without an Ion icon - and neither with TL.

Regarding hull, it feels weird to lump it with a comparatively tiny Nebulon B. And it is slightly bulkier than a GSD.

Overall, I think we're past theorycrafting for this design (along with most stuff on Shipyards), in the sense that only actual playtesting will give us a definitive answer. That's not to say I haven't overlooked anything anywhere of course - just that fine-tuning without actual table experience isn't very time-efficient.

Oh I will give it table experience don't worry. Theorycrafting is the best part of nerdery though I am bored so I have nothing better to do then pick at the dead horse with a stick.

I know this really isn't what you want to hear, but... how about some more nice writeups?

I will pick another ship and have a go at it tonight.