I think we are on the right track. Now we just need Mel to make a model.

On a large ship note I now have 9 games under my belt with the large base ships, and I am still leaning towards 1000m+ being on a large base. It would give you a lot more room in the variables when designing. However, not required. What sort of variables were you looking at in that area?

I'm thinking it might be a good idea to make the Providence a Large ship after all. That lets us cover both the "normal" (1080m) and the "enlarged" (2160m but otherwise identical ) versions, especially if Mel's model ends up being about the same length as the ISD. It's a bit of a fudge, but:

1) It makes this ship stand out from the otherwise similarly sized Recusant and Munificent.

2) It reinforces its role as a flagship.

3) It lets us use the Invisible Hand and Invincible titles.

4) Seriously, LFL, what were you thinking???

> LFL

> Thinking about consistency, especially in matters of scale.

Pick one.

Point of note: Should Nova Defiant discard the damage card, or merely place it face down? Either prevents the effect from taking place, but one is far more powerful, rendering the ship immune to a selection (admittedly a relatively small one) of damage cards from the damage deck. I had operated under the assumption that it would do the latter, but I am fine with the former, if there is a cost increase associated with it. 4 pts seems like not very much to shrug off a damage card flat out.

The reasons for departing from the original proposal are twofold:

-On one hand, that's the exact same effect that the Advanced Med Bay upgrade provides. So I thought it'd be nicer to differentiate it at least a little.

-On the other hand, it's a weak effect and not even likely to trigger at all during most games. I valued the Med Bay at 2 and it affects all ships within a 1 foot radius! I'd rather give unique title abilities a little more oomph.

As for the power of the thing... yeah, theoretically it could keep your ship alive forever, right? Except, it can't, not least because you have no control at all over it: if your opponent doesn't feel like gambling, he can simply choose not to trigger the standard crit effect and just give you a facedown card. Which is almost equivalent to all faceup damage cards being flipped facedown with no effect. Which would be great - but again, it's your opponent who decides. And if he feels like gambling, the odds are still pretty decent: the expected damage output from a faceup card has gone down from 1.15 (remember Structural damage) to 0.85. Which is worse than 1.00 (facedown card) but does have a great likelihood (a bit over 50%) of triggering some nasty side effects. And considering how many faceup cards your ship is likely to take over the course of a game (2? 3 tops?), the odds that more than 1 damage is prevented are slim.

Does that make sense? It feels like solid theory, but I'd be happier with playtesting of course

I'm thinking it might be a good idea to make the Providence a Large ship after all. That lets us cover both the "normal" (1080m) and the "enlarged" (2160m but otherwise identical ) versions, especially if Mel's model ends up being about the same length as the ISD. It's a bit of a fudge, but:

1) It makes this ship stand out from the otherwise similarly sized Recusant and Munificent.

2) It reinforces its role as a flagship.

3) It lets us use the Invisible Hand and Invincible titles.

4) Seriously, LFL, what were you thinking???

While I see this as a game mechanic, the Recusant is actually longer than the Providence. 1187 meters to 1088 meters. If I am coming across strong, it s only because the Recuscant is one of my favorite capital ships in Star Wars.

I don't know how I feel about the Providence begin on a large vs medium. Though it really depends on which verison of the ship we want to support if its the 2k one then yeah of course its large. if its the 1k one then I think it should be medium with the Victory, Ventor and Recusant.

Though I like the idea of it begin big and scary. I have always recognized it with the 1088 meter designation than the much larger version, because the one in the movie was I think pretty was clearly the 1088M one.

Though I do beleive this needs more discussion.

The way I see it, there's multiple reasons why it should be Large, and only one (" some Recusants are listed as being 1088m") why it should be Medium.

It's also important to note that length alone is not the only deciding factor, with overall bulk being just as important: for example, the Dreadnaught is made as a Medium ship, while the Interdictor is Small despite being listed as having the exact same length.

BTW - welcome Zenzi

The Munificent image is linking to the Recusant on the Shipyards.

Fix0red - thanks!

Give me a quick list on what needs to be playtested and I will put my guys on it.

I guess I agree with the providence begin large. Even in its smaller version is probably had 50% more volume over a venator and with the ships size ranging in size from 1k-2k meters. I guess I just never imagined that the providence would be on the same scale as the homeone.

I have some thoughts on admirals and officers, but I need time to pull up my Clone Wars NPC files from my Sar Wars D6 campaign notes. Hopefully this afternoon.

You had mentioned wanting something unique for vulture droids. How about something that reflects the scenes where they are just hanging out on the surface of frindly capital ships.

-At the end of the ship phase any vulture droid in base contact with a friendly ship may be repositioned by the owner.

It would allow CIS carriers to drag a fighter screen. With them.

I guess I agree with the providence begin large. Even in its smaller version is probably had 50% more volume over a venator and with the ships size ranging in size from 1k-2k meters. I guess I just never imagined that the providence would be on the same scale as the homeone.

I feel your pain (and Felswrath's). Unfortunately, scale isn't an exact science in Armada Hell, some sources pin Home One at 1200m (only very slightly more than the smaller version of the Providence), others at more than twice that. And after all, it's not like we're talking about WW2 warships here - this is all imaginary, so concepts like "accuracy" or "faithfulness" lack a well-defined meaning in the absence of a truly authoritative source.

My main concern (and I believe FFG shares the same design principle) is that ships should look and feel right on the table. Flagrant contradiction with generally accepted source materials or clear departures from reasonable expectations (imagine Large-based CR90s, Luke piloting the Falcon, or Y-wings outrunning TIEs) are to be avoided, of course, but some slight fudging here and there for the sake of gameplay and "character" is going to be necessary from time to time.

That's not at all to say I'm dead set on making the Providence as a Large ship, or on keeping the Recusant and Venator as Medium. Just that, from where I'm standing, it seems like the most appropriate course of action. I could very well be persuaded otherwise, but it will take more than just a number on Wookieepedia

Give me a quick list on what needs to be playtested and I will put my guys on it.

Man, I wouldn't know where to start The Republic commanders spring to mind first, but it's tricky to test any of the GAR stuff just yet as it's primarily intended to be balanced against the CIS (hopefully also against Rebels and Imperials, of course, but that's a secondary concern).

I guess the best is to write down a full list of the "suspect" ships/cards, and let your guys use them in lists at their leisure. So, off the top of my head:

IMPERIAL

-Customs Corvette (either variant)

-Dreadnaught w/ Abrogator or Pride of the Senate

-Interdictor (all titles)

-Nebulon-B w/ Enforcer or Implacable

-Nebulon-B2 Attack Frigate w/ Osprey

-Strike cruiser w/ Havoc

-Venator w/ Vensenor (maybe also Hound at some point)

-Thrawn ( massively suspect!)

REBEL

-AFMkI w/ Liberty Star or Virtue's Reward

-DP20 w/ Dream Runner

-Dreadnaught w/ Katana (and Raymus?) or Peregrine (and Garm?)

-Liberty MC80 w/ Liberty

-Modified CR90 w/ Sundered Heart

-Pelta w/ Phoenix Home

REPUBLIC

-Acclamator w/ Aken

-Arquitens w/ Hand of Justice

-Pelta w/ Sanctuary

-Any/all GAR commanders

-Any/all Jedi Starfighters and Jedi Interceptors

And pretty much all the auxiliary units. These are all highly suspect, but also low priority:

-Lambda Shuttle, DX-9, ATR-6

-XQ Platforms

...yeah, sorry. I guess this doesn't help

Wes, we're at a point where any and all play testing is welcome. I'm working on getting a couple more people I know into the game, so exotic custom anything have been off the table for me recently and the immediate future. If your dudes are looking for a challenge, let them try out the Cargo thing we got going on. Tests of either Republic or the pitiful section of CIS hardware would also be appreciated, but remembering that they are balanced against each other instead of against Imperial or Rebel kit.

For the vulture droids on ship idea, I think I would prefer that on the ship (Offensive Retrofit, Officer(?), Title, etc) than the fighters. That is to keep basic fighter cards clean and simple but I'm welcome to other logics.

I'm not expecting to settle the size debate until we all have larges to play with. I don't think there's any debate that the Munificent is medium, but the triple nonsense that is R/V/P has awhile yet to run. Upon further thought and some crude relative volume calculations I opine that either all three are medium or that R is medium and V&P are large. I have played the V at medium and it worked well, but I plan a repeat once my ISD shows up. (Looking at you FFG). I also point out that both Providence AND Recusant had oversized variants, so that logic is not ideal.

CIS Commanders: to maintain temporary parity with the GAR, I propose for the immediate future only the three commanders Dooku, Grievous and Admiral Trench (the spider from TCW), with Grievous, Ventress, Bane, and maybe more as aces or double duty as officers. Dooku is a force-user, so a battle-wide power (battle meditation, foresight, etc) seems appropriate. Grievous could do a number of things, either anti-crit, align attack vectors, both of those seen in the Battle of Coruscant, we have lots of choices. Trench is a calculating evil little spider, so an ability requiring forethought or a combo seems appropriate since we have no stealth ships (Dear God, there's a sketchy mechanic) for him to savage.

...or that R is medium and V&P are large...

That looks like a reasonable option to me, especially since the Republic would otherwise remain bereft of Large toys.

EDIT: The Venator has always been high, if not top, on my "to be revised" list.

...or that R is medium and V&P are large...

That looks like a reasonable option to me, especially since the Republic would otherwise remain bereft of Large toys.

EDIT: The Venator has always been high, if not top, on my "to be revised" list.

Ok I just want to throw out some Ideas I had for CIS Admirals and officers. Even if they never get used, they may inspire other ideas.

ADMIRALS:

Count Dooku- All friendly ships receive a Concentrate Fire Token the first time each turn that his Flagship receives a damage card.

General Grevious-Enemy ships take 2 damage when rammed by a friendly ship.

Admiral Trench-While attacking, a friendly ship may reroll a number of dice equal to the number of friendly ships destroyed.

OFFICERS:

General Kalani -This ship may use the Defense tokens of any friendly ship as if they were its own.

T-series tactical droid- you may deploy this ship or 3 squadrons at the start of any turn after the first.

If the Venator were to be upgraded/revised, what are theories on how to approach it? I point out that the CIS ships are getting a fair number of upgrade slots, so is the logic about difficulty upgrading still in play? Are we buffing armament? Frankly I don't think Hull, Command, Squadron, or Engineering need buffs, although shields might, as well as adding a Contain token. The ship is powerful as it is, but it is powerful as a medium. Compared to Home One or an Imperial-class, she is lackluster at best, with only the Squadron value as a standout. It might be best to also consider its relative balance with the Providence as we develop that ship as well (supposed near parity).

For Cynan's CIS suggestions, my initial thought is all of those commanders are rather sacrificial, Dooku's in particular, not a trait I associate with any of those commanders. Grievous I could accept, but I want to think on all of them more first. Kalani makes sense, although I might suggest a range limit on the ability. For the T-series, that's essentially Hyperspace Assault for everyone. Is that a can of worms we really want to open? Summoning additional, prereadied fighters maybe, but an entire ship? I'll keep thinking, but what do others see?

It would only be in your deployment zone, but yes, it is a mini Hyperspace assault, perhaps if we limit the size of the ship?

Really, I am good with hacking these apart, I just want to spur ideas that could be important as the ships are made. Some may be more appropriate as titles, some may just be non-starters. I was just trying to think outside the box a little.

For the Venator, I would revise it to be a counterpoint to the Providence. Love where this is going.

I will attempt to run some more of the new ships this weekend.

fortunately My sons are eager to try out everything, so they can play and I can observe.

Meanwhile...

Meanwhile...

Doh! I forgot the Nemodians.

That should help inspiration flow!

I went with the sacrificial style commanders because the CIS always has the numbers, it is on quality where they get beat.

Newt Gunray- Friendly ships may use defense tokens at speed 0.

(A blockade)

Lott Dod- this ship may not be targeted by more than one arc from the same ship.