*whistles*

Honestly, I think you've got 4 Admirals worth of Rules there... All four effects are potentially very powerful in comparison.

As it stands, Lariann is too good for me to take anyone else. Period. I get command flexibility and command power? Awesome. Throwing a Concentrate Fire as well as commanding a Rhymer ball at the same time... Death to just about everyone.

Indra for the rebels as well - especially if you're letting them resolve both Command Dials at the same time... That's a Wall of bombers.

So, I guess that, Balanced against Each Other they're not terribly out of whack... But they certainly are Over the top compared to the likes of Tarkin, Screed, Dodonna and Mothma.

My god....those titles are so far out of balance I don't think I can even get my brain round them. The Admirals might be even worse....I'm not sure due to my brain imploding.?

Ok, Vindicator first. What you are saying is that it can use all its tokens against every attack, with no way of stopping it. Basically, it takes half damage from every attack, can't be hurt by standard cries, and if it has Piett also gets an unstoppable Evade. Dude.

Eradicator. 24 dice from the front arc with no other upgrades. Seriously?

Incinerator actually isn't too bad comparatively.

Aggressor. Wow....just no. Noooooo. Nope. Niet, non, Nein. 12 fighters activating with 2black and a blue each? Or 10 bombers, with 3 Black Bomber Duce each....or even the best anti squadron attack in the game if fighters face them.

The Admirals are just....****.

I do not exaggerate when I say if FFG released any of these cards bar the Incinerator, I'd probably quit the game!

Darkfortunex, with all due respect, could I ask you to please move discussion on your cards to another thread? We were in the middle of working on the CIS set...

Munificent looks like it could be alright. I would like to say that both versions should maintain their 3 engineering. Just my two cents. Unless the intent is to make droid ships generally less capable in that area. What I do see being a go to upgrade for this ship is Slaved Turrets. Keep that in mind when developing titles for the ship. MAy I suggest one that compliments the carrier version and one the frigate variant?

I am eagre to see how your professional prints go. I would assume they would include the back printing as well? Although I would almost suggest making the prints double sided with the variants vs the art backing.

Darkfortunex, with all due respect, could I ask you to please move discussion on your cards to another thread? We were in the middle of working on the CIS set...

There you go.

The Munificent looks good. I am assuming it is on a medium base, hard to tell on the tablet. I am concerned about the extra yaw at speed 3. This thing is more maneuverable at speed 3 than 2 or 1. I'm not so much opposed to the 2 clicks at the 3rd joint, that gives it character, just think it should have it at 2 and maybe 1 as well.

More like,

1: 11

2: -,11

3: -,-,11

Otherwise it looks beautiful, can't wait to add this to the collection!

Giving it that double click at the lower speed allows it a lot more flexability to bring its front guns to bear on target. Although I am sure that would suit this front gun monster just fine, it may be the only thing keeping it in balance. I will go run some on table turns to get an idea of what this ship can do if that were the case.

The frigate version seems a bit too powerful for a clone wars era ship. I believe it is supposed to take 6 or 7 of them to outgun 1 victory-class. While that is not practical within armada, I'd hesitate to give it more than 3 dice front. The carrier version seems more inline, though I'd take away 1 frontal shieldpoint so the total equals the nebulon. It should of course be a bit cheaper in that case.

So after some table use this ship becomes a very shallow turner with only the II at the end of each move. Without navigate that makes it very hard to stay on target at lower speed. That said, if this ship plays a slow forward advance or approach from the flank, its long range guns wont need it to be able to turn. Without a navigate command, the II moves are inferior in a close in fight. I suppose it comes now more into the realm of how you want this ship to play.

With the moves as they are, the ship is capable with a navigate command of a full 90' turn at speed 3, once again keeping it to the edge of the fight to be most effective. I am tempted top agree that at speed 2 the ship should be -, II to maintain that character in its move profile.

Lord Tareq, the only problem with that is it is a medium base ship. I would never take a ship with that big of a base who had so little to offer back. Abstraction of the ships capabilities may not be the most desired but I think it would be underwhelming at best to degrade the vessel to the status of a Nebulon-B when it is almost 3 times the size.

The Munificent is already the best-maneuvering Medium ship out there - I hesitate to make it better. Make'em navigate, I say! If anything, I'd consider getting rid of the double click at speed 3. But like cynan said, it gives it character - and should make it fun to play.

As for the power level, I have to agree with Wes. Armada's compressed scale makes statements such as the "6 of these could outgun 1 of those" rather moot. It's especially difficult to decide on a value when these statements come accompanied with graphical descriptions of the immense firepower of the ship's front weapons - I really couldn't just make it equal to a Small-sized, second-rate Nebulon. It was Giled who proposed this particular level of firepower in a previous post, but after much thought I can't see how I could have reasonably arrived at a different configuration.

Regarding the carrier's reduced repair value, Giled pointed out that according to Wookieepedia part of the engineering bay was removed to make room for the droid fighters, so it seemed appropriate.

And yes, I intended to make at least one title focused on the heavy front guns (Salvation-style), and a squadron-oriented one. Though perhaps the latter should wait until we have at least some CIS squadrons fleshed out?

Which reminds me, I also made a couple of titles for the Liberty type MC80. They're up on Shipyards .

Darkfortunex, with all due respect, could I ask you to please move discussion on your cards to another thread? We were in the middle of working on the CIS set...

There you go.

Thanks - but I didn't mean you had to delete the whole thing. Only to keep discussion compartmentalized in separate threads (otherwise it becomes an unreadable mess). You're not going to repost them?

So on the Liberty for a second we are spending one of our unrevealed command dials, or delaying the spending of the revealed dial until after we move? I am probably just not reading it right.

I do not think the munificent any more manuverable with the clicks at the end, instead of spread out, it just forces a more awkward turn layout. Either case I am fine with the outcome. I need to set aside some extra funds to get some. There is a growing interest in the Clone Wars as an option in my area thanks to the efforts here.

Oh, right, my bad - I misread. I was hesitant to make it I/II, but -/II would be just fine!

Liberty effectively lets you delay a command until after moving (Nav and Rep dials are normally spent right after being revealed, but it's certainly not compulsory to do so - they can stay unspent throughout the round). The potential uses are many, from repairing damage right after a collision to focusing your bombers on a hull zone after you punch through its shields. I didn't assign it a high point cost as it's quite situational, but I'd feel better with a second opinion.

Well I could see a use for the Squadron command, especially if your fighters outstripped your command range last turn. Allowing the ship to move back into command range before using the command could be quite powerful, especially since the command would be useless otherwise. The Repair command I could see being of good use in a dangerous territory or minefield situation. Situational yes, but potentially life saving.

Yes, the command range boost was the original idea behind the card (if I had a victory token for every time I've wished I could command squadrons after moving...), and I think it fits well with the forward-facing firepower. But that effect, by itself, is worse than the equally-costed Boosted Comms since the latter works in all directions and regardless of current speed. Of course, the Escort Cruiser variant could potentially take both - and even Nav Team for an extra boost. That could get ugly, but then so is the point value

On the Munificent, I can't say I like the underarmed nature of the new carrier, but it does thoroughly distinguish it from it's run-and-gun counterpart. Losing a forward shield could be ok, but I prefer them as they are right now. I would also not think that increasing the carrier's Engineering value to 3 is too great a leap, but that can be playtested, to make sure it doesn't end up too much more generally useful than the carrier. For titles, we still have Chasovoy "Red Crit - Remove one shield from the defending arc before applying damage. If no shields remain BEFORE the attack, the defender may not spend redirect tokens." Tide of Progress VII is obsolete with the new Boosted Comms, but I'm curious if a title increasing squadron value by two, provided all squadrons are Vulture droids or Hyenas is acceptable to the forum.

I like the Liberty title, now that I understand how it works. Reef Home, speaking for myself, I would probably take regularly so as to be more aggressive with that ship.

When we have a better idea of what the droid fighters are capable of we can better assume the impact of a +2 squadron value. I do believe swarm is still a great option for Droids, but I think we can be more inventive to help make them their own breed of fighter.

On the Munificent, I can't say I like the underarmed nature of the new carrier [...]

For a title showcasing the massive frontal cannons (whether Chasovoy or an additional one), I was thinking "While attacking a ship from your front hull zone, you may add 1 to the damage total for each defense token spent during the attack."

On the Munificent, I can't say I like the underarmed nature of the new carrier [...]

That was your idea, mate

For a title showcasing the massive frontal cannons (whether Chasovoy or an additional one), I was thinking "While attacking a ship from your front hull zone, you may add 1 to the damage total for each defense token spent during the attack."

Touche. I have no idea why I remembered an additional blue for the carrier. It's been too long since I originally created those. That is another possible idea for an offensive title, and a rude one to counter General Kenobi. And add "from your front hull zone" to my rule for Chasovoy while we're at it. Didn't realize I skipped that, which probably also means the cost of it can come down, a little .

There's no room on the Chasovoy card for the red crit effect, but anyway I think Force of Commerce has the auto-damage covered. I set the cost to 5 as it's now worse than XI7 Turbolasers (but still pretty good!).

Speaking of auto-damage, I provisionally gave a Boba Fett-like ability to Tide of Progress. With a Squadron value of 2 (3 with EH) and limited range it's not a big deal in most situations, but it provides a nice hard counter to Jedi Interceptors.

Honestly, if I had to pick, I would take the front half of Chasovoy over the latter half, but that is as much personal play style as anything else. Also, I feel compelled to point out Tide of Progress with Expanded Hangar Bays can murder a Jedi Eta-2 ace without his tokens in one swoop. That could be very deadly.

Are you sure about Chasovoy?

Compare:

"[Red Crit]: The defending hull zone loses 1 shield." [note: crit effects are always applied before regular damage, no need to specify it]

with

"While attacking a ship from your front hull zone, your [crit] icons count as 2 damage instead of 1." (Salvation, 7 points)

Salvation's ability works whether or not the target zone has any shields left, can resolve multiple times, and does not take up your precious crit effect resolution. It could also potentially trigger off non-red dice if you somehow manage to roll those (e.g. Opening Salvo). So aside from the front arc restriction, which I guess we both feel should be there anyway, Salvation is strictly better. Unlike the other half of the proposed ability, which is generally worse than XI7 as it's more situational, but not strictly so as XI7 does allow for the redirection of a single point of damage. One way around this could be to make a red crit remove 2 shields. Powerful, though given the choice I'd still take Salvation most of the time.

Taking a step back, I guess the problem is that we want to have, on a single card, two weak(er) versions of existing abilities - and it's hard to fit both in as they have different triggers. We can either streamline them so we can merge them, or pick one of them but then sufficiently differentiate it from the existing ability.

On the subject of Tide of Progress, yes, that's entirely true (and kinda the point) - but only if the ace was already engaged by three squadrons and at medium range of the ship - and even then only if it has EH equipped. Having said that, I wrote provisionally because I expect I'll want to add a qualifier to the ability. Probably something like "When you activate a squadron with SWARM , [...]". But the specifics will depend on the droid squadron stats and abilities

I have to say, I like the red crit Chasovoy more, as they can't evade it away, or redirect it. It guarantees that that opening long range shot does something to the targeted arc, setting up the next activation. These are going to play more like Imps than anything, & I can't even guess at how many times my VSD first long-range shots do jack and squat!

I have to say, I like the red crit Chasovoy more, as they can't evade it away

But they can - the crit effect is resolved after the Spend Defense Tokens step, so an Evade can still get rid of it (or force it to be rerolled, depending on range).

On the other hand, we could reword it like this:

"While attacking a ship from your front hull zone, you may spend 1 die with a [crit] icon to deal 1 damage to the defending hull zone." (or, alternatively, "...any number of dice [...] to deal that much damage...")

This would take place during the Modify Dice step and therefore be immune to all defense tokens. It's especially neat if you only roll an even number of hits/crits: you spend 1 crit to deal one damage right away, but because the total is now an odd number, if it gets braced down it's still rounded up to the same amount, so you end up dealing extra damage. And even if you rolled an odd amount, at least the damage dealt early can't be redirected or evaded.

Perhaps this is more in line with what Giled had in mind?

That's a clever workaround. I like it, and the point was the ability of the gigantic cannons to hurt whether you liked it or not. Let me think some more about whether or not we should allow more than one die to be spent for the direct damage. The light carrier could only use that for three damage, and would rather have Tide of Progress anyway. The frigate variant can theoretically hand over five unblockable damage that way, albeit a 1/1024 chance. (For math nerds too lazy to find a decimal, that's barely less than a tenth of a percentage point.) I think it should provisionally be one die only, and costed that way, and we can experiment with how that actually plays. If it proves to be useless, we can buff it later.

I'm just going to throw it out there as a Spitball for Oddball Mechanics...

How would you feel about the idea of:

"Spend 2 Critical Die, remove all shields on the defending facing"

Maybe even make them specifically Red Critical Die.

VERY powerful when it goes off. Much more difficult to get off.

Very difficult to price as well, I guess