I see what you did there Diablo, one medium variant and one large variant. Certainly would work with the idea that each ship is unique. And plays on the variable size. Not a bad compramise.

Huh, well, actually... that wasn't my intention

Simply two different loadouts, both large. But perhaps having one of each is not a bad idea!

EDIT: Ah, I get it - you clicked on "next" in the Photobucket page and saw the previous version (which was meant as a medium ship). I just didn't get around to deleting it yet

As much as I want it to be different from Home One, I just can't find a basis for it. It's almost the same size, and has similar if not the same armament. So how about this:

As for the arc layout, I haven't put anything together yet, but I'd lean towards an arrangement similar to that of the Nebulon-B2:

Would those back arcs be flipped forward or remain how it is? I suppose in my mind I always saw its side arc's being smaller, so more focus was put on its forward leanings.

As you see them: wide front (its strongest arc), narrow rear. The broadsides are narrower than the regular MC80's, but wider than a Star Destroyer's.

I generally like to design ships with inconvenient arcs - but this is probably the most favourable layout it can possibly have.

Shouldn't the Liberty have less squadron value than the MC80 Homeone? What if the escort variant had 2 support teams? Instead of an offensive retrofit to differ it from the Homeone.

Shouldn't the Liberty have less squadron value than the MC80 Homeone? What if the escort variant had 2 support teams? Instead of an offensive retrofit to differ it from the Homeone.

I can see versions being anywhere from a 5 squadron to a 2 squadron.

Shouldn't the Liberty have less squadron value than the MC80 Homeone? What if the escort variant had 2 support teams? Instead of an offensive retrofit to differ it from the Homeone.

It depends, winged Liberties were supposed to have massive fighter bays built into the wings.

I can see versions being anywhere from a 5 squadron to a 2 squadron.

What do you think of having 2 support teams though?

Shouldn't the Liberty have less squadron value than the MC80 Homeone? What if the escort variant had 2 support teams? Instead of an offensive retrofit to differ it from the Homeone.

It depends, winged Liberties were supposed to have massive fighter bays built into the wings.

I can see versions being anywhere from a 5 squadron to a 2 squadron.

What do you think of having 2 support teams though?

I think it would be better than trying to match the upgrades on home one.

_Diablo,

_{What software do you use to create your cards?}

_Salcor

I gotta say I'm much more enthusiastic about the new Liberty variants. They do a very good job of providing a different approach to capital ships than anything we've seen to date. The upgrade lists also seem far more reasonable, providing a good suite of options without going overboard with it. I'll see if I can get one or more of these on the board next chance I get to play (although running the Jedi squadrons may take priority).

Now we just need a pretty model. Somebody whip Mel into action lol. On that note, he just gave us some extra work to do in the form of 3 different Escort Carriers, all intended for small bases. Ideas, suggestions fpr the Ton-Falk, Imperial and Quasar?

_Diablo,

_{What software do you use to create your cards?}

_Salcor

Hi Salcor - it's all done with Photoshop CS, based on a template designed by RogueKnight over at the Boardgamegeek forums.

As for the suggestion of replacing the O.R. slot with a second Support Team... in principle I like it, but lore-wise at least one of the variants should probably have access to Tractor Beams. Maybe replace the Officer upgrade instead? It sounds like sacrilege - but remember most of these ships had Mon Cal command crew only as their control rooms and instrument panels were designed for their species' unique viewing spectrum. So it has some thematic justification (as well as keeping Raymus away from the Redundant Shields + Engineering Team + Projection Experts combo).

Now we just need a pretty model. Somebody whip Mel into action lol. On that note, he just gave us some extra work to do in the form of 3 different Escort Carriers, all intended for small bases. Ideas, suggestions fpr the Ton-Falk, Imperial and Quasar?

Nothing much, really. My initial thoughts:

Ton-Falk: hull 6, speed 2, squadron 4 with OR and WT upgrade slots

Quasar: hull 5, speed 2, squadron 2-3 with OR and Cargo slots, possibly a variant with lower squadron and no OR but two Cargo icons

Imperial: hull 5, speed 3, squadron 2, maybe with OR slot, and at least one title card ability related to the Board squadron keyword

I was thinking, if you are inclined, there is CW precedent for a Republic ARQUITENS to have the Board key word. Baring that, a Jedi officer that gives a ship Board.

On an only slightly related note, would I be going overboard if I made up a stand or two of Space Troopers?

Hull: 1-2

Speed: 2

Anti-squadron: 1red, 1black

Anti-ship: 1red

Keywords: Board, (Grit or Intel)

I know I have some old GW Epic Space Marines, they are around 4-6mm tall, so shoud look about right next to the fighters.

Thoughts?

For the Arquitens to have Board does have precedent, but it would be very difficult to do since the ship has to come to a halt relative to its target. Whether that means a forward-forward ram, coming close aboard on a parallel course somehow (both courses parallel to the long axis of the play area), whatever, I doubt it would occur very frequently. If we do want to try, I vote an officer that does it. Either Galactic Marines or Tiin or Kenobi are all ok suggestions, although I would point out that it would be difficult to pull off successfully ship-to-ship in current rules (both ours and FFG's).

To Mel's new models, I have no idea where he dug up that old fossil of an Imperial escort carrier. Balance-wise, DA's snap thoughts all seem reasonable, providing good hangar power on (hopefully) cheaper and less otherwise capable platforms. Long-term we should be thinking about differentiating such light carriers against heavy carriers (Venator, Lucrehulk, Endurance, etc.) Endurance and Nebula are both good ships I would be more than happy to incorporate. I personally vote we finish the CIS before dealing with NR/YVW stuff, but I also prefer the Clone Wars, full disclosure.

On behalf of Myrmecology, who is not able to get on right now, does anyone have thoughts for the K-wing, other heavy bombers, or, as he put it, standoff bomber squadrons for either side. (PS We haven't done the TIE Defender have we?)

Shouldn't the Liberty have less squadron value than the MC80 Homeone? What if the escort variant had 2 support teams? Instead of an offensive retrofit to differ it from the Homeone.

It depends, winged Liberties were supposed to have massive fighter bays built into the wings.

I can see versions being anywhere from a 5 squadron to a 2 squadron.

What do you think of having 2 support teams though?

I think it would be better than trying to match the upgrades on home one.

What if we made a defensive support variant and an offensive carrier variant?

As a CW fan, what are your thoughts on the subjugator class, aka The Malevolence?

Large enough to be a dreadnought. And by dreadnought I mean the same size grade as the Executor, too d--- big to play with normal rules. I am still searching for an appropriate model to use to test my theories on dreadnought-size starships and to make them playable, but in the meantime the Subjugator is three times the size and even more heavily armed than the largest ship to date, the Imperial class. Find me a 3D model, and I will get you an Epic rule set. I even have a 3D printer lined up for the task. I just need a ship.

For the Arquitens to have Board does have precedent, but it would be very difficult to do since the ship has to come to a halt relative to its target. Whether that means a forward-forward ram, coming close aboard on a parallel course somehow (both courses parallel to the long axis of the play area), whatever, I doubt it would occur very frequently. If we do want to try, I vote an officer that does it. Either Galactic Marines or Tiin or Kenobi are all ok suggestions, although I would point out that it would be difficult to pull off successfully ship-to-ship in current rules (both ours and FFG's).

To Mel's new models, I have no idea where he dug up that old fossil of an Imperial escort carrier. Balance-wise, DA's snap thoughts all seem reasonable, providing good hangar power on (hopefully) cheaper and less otherwise capable platforms. Long-term we should be thinking about differentiating such light carriers against heavy carriers (Venator, Lucrehulk, Endurance, etc.) Endurance and Nebula are both good ships I would be more than happy to incorporate. I personally vote we finish the CIS before dealing with NR/YVW stuff, but I also prefer the Clone Wars, full disclosure.

On behalf of Myrmecology, who is not able to get on right now, does anyone have thoughts for the K-wing, other heavy bombers, or, as he put it, standoff bomber squadrons for either side. (PS We haven't done the TIE Defender have we?)

I concur - let's do CIS next.

There's already so much untested material on the site that I really don't think it's justified to tackle the more obscure/unusual stuff just yet. The Smuggler's Alliance stuff isn't too bad as, even if the alliance itself was formed (shortly) after the fall of the empire, most if not all of their ships had been operating for a while. Still, I don't mind postponing that, at least until we have a clearer picture of what we want to do with the faction split.

What we do know is that we need to get the separatists done!

As for K-wings and TIE Defenders... ugh... ugly stuff, man. Let's revisit them later.

So. Munificent, Providence and Recusant. Perhaps also Core Ships? I think the full Lucrehulks may be too large for the current rules.

Here are some variously-baked ideas on the CIS fleet mainstays. Each has two variants for now, with differences denoted by ";". I am trying to make my variants more a difference in capability than capability AND points, so both versions are equally viable in roughly the same numbers in a fleet.

Munificent-class Frigate

Hull: 5

Shields: 3/2/1; 3/3/1

Armament: RRRBK/RR/RB; RRB/RR/BB

Anti-Squadron: B

Command: 2

Squadron: 2;4

Engineering: 3;2

Defense: EBR

Maneuver: Nebulon?

Upgrades: ?

Cost: 65-70

This ship is a medium frigate, capable of engaging a Venator with numbers when necessary. The two variants are a dedicated ship-ship combat version, and a medium carrier to coordinate swarms of droid fighters, playing off supposed top-of-the-line sensor and communications technology each ship carried. The bulk of the firepower is forward on both versions, but the carrier version is more lightly armed to account for a greater fighter screen. (Again, I don't want the changes coming in cost where I can avoid it, that feels like cheating, even if I fully expect cost changes between variants). This is the only one from Mel so far, fyi.

Recusant-class light destroyer

Hull: 6

Shields: 3/3/1; 2/3/1

Armament: RBK/RBBK/B; BBK/RRKK/BK

Anti-Squadron: B

Command: 2/3? (Here I'm genuinely undecided, both variants will get the same command value)

Squadron: 1/2

Engineering: 4/3

Defense: EBR/BRR

Maneuver: AF2+? Speed 3 certainly

Upgrades: ? Ordnance?

Cost: 75

This ship is billed in the fluff as a fast commerce raider, if not known for intelligent maneuvering. Its role in this CIS lineup is to provide cheap tankiness and a broadside to complement the Munificent instead of the expensive Providence.

Providence-class destroyer/carrier

Hull: 8

Shields: 3/4/2;3/3/2

Armament: RRB/RRBKK/RB; RBB/RRBK/BB

Anti-Squadron: B

Command: 3

Squadron: 2/4

Engineering: 4/3

Defense: BRR

Maneuver: AF2; 1/1-/1--

Upgrades: ?

Cost: 85+

The Providence was the star of the CIS cruiser lineup, able to duke it out with Venators. As such, it is easily the toughest and most powerful ship here, with an obvious focus on broadsides, while also being extremely expensive compared to its cousins. As far as the change in maneuverability, the fluff claims carrier variant Providence-class ships suffered from a truncated engineering section to fit the bay into the ship, thus the lower engineering value and lesser maneuverability.

I'm not satisfied that none of these ships are OP yet, they certainly need play-testing and other opinions. My biggest concerns are thus: I have absolutely no clue what to do for upgrades, and they need to be balanced. The costs listed are EWGs, and need a better opinion than that. For upgrades, especially the Munificent and Recusant were primarily droid ships, so I would focus upgrades away from crew ones, but I don't have any idea how viable an idea that is. I've shown these to Myrmecology and he loves the various roles the ships can fill. Thoughts from the fine folks here?

First off, the Vultures, which I see essentially as a disposable screen, even more so than TIEs.

Vulture Droid

Hull: 1

Speed: 4

AS: 2 Blue

Battery: 1 Blue

Cost : 5pts

Anything that hits it will kill it, but ideally they'll have the raw numbers to take that, and they're absolute murder against aces with limited tokens. Anti-squadron fire, however, will rip them apart.

Hyena Droid

Hull: 2

Speed: 4

AS: 2 Blue

Battery: 1 Black

Bomber

Cost: 9pts

A slightly tougher Vulture with Bomber, as a way to add on AS capability. A black die with bomber might be too much, and I'm considering swapping it out for a blue, but it shares the Vulture's problem of being incredibly fragile.

Tri-Fighter Droid

Hull: 4

Speed: 3

AS: 3 Blue 1 Red

Battery: 1 Black

Cost: 11pts

An X-Wing on a budget, essentially. In a theoretical sense it has 1 blue per light laser cannon and one red for the heavy cannon but that shouldn't change much besides flavor. My thought for representing the buzz droids, which I consider an essential part of the CIS flavor, is an ace that inflicts per-round damage to all fighters engaged with it, but that seems stupidly overpowered, and what I might do instead is a really low-speed squadron that can be dropped off from ships like the Lambda and used as anti-squadron mines. For a small CIS ship, Giled and I came up with the Wavecrest, but I haven't seen a model for it yet.

For the Separatist ships I posted a few days ago, here are some more solid ideas on upgrades and cost estimates.

Munificent-class Attack Frigate

Change Forward Black to Blue

Upgrades: Turbolasers, Ion Cannons, Defensive Retrofit

Cost: 65 pts

Munificent-class Light Carrier

Change Squadron 4 to 3

Upgrades: Turbolasers, Defensive Retrofit, Offensive Retrofit

Cost: 62 pts

Titles: Tide of Progress VII - All squadrons activated during a Squadron Command, may be at long range from the ship, provided all activated Squadrons are Vulture Droid fighters - 10 pts (Supposedly Munificent-class ships wielded superior comms and sensors.)

Chasovoy (Eng. "Sentinel") - Red Crit - The defending hull zone loses a shield when fired on from Chasovoy's front arc. If there are no shields left on that zone BEFORE the attack, the defender may not use Redirect defense tokens - 10 pts (Titanic forward turbolasers with superior shield penetration properties)

Recusant-class Assault Destroyer

Command: 3

Squadron: 2

AS: 2 Blue

Upgrades: Turbolasers, Ion Cannons, Offensive Retrofit

Cost: 77 pts

Recusant-class Missile Destroyer

Command: 3

Squadron: 2

Upgrades: Turbolasers, Ordnance, Support Team

Cost: 71 pts

Titles: Mortuum (Eng. "Death/Dead") - Critical Effect cards with the word "crew" in the Title have no effect - 15 pts (Primarily droid crew ship)

Subleuarent (Eng. "Raider") - When attacking ships without friendly ships within range 5, add one black dice to your attack - 9 pts (Raiding ship)

Providence-class Assault Cruiser

Upgrades: Turbolasers, Ordnance, Offensive Retrofit, Defensive Retrofit, Weapons Team, Officer

Cost: 88 points

Providence-class Fleet Carrier

Upgrades: Turbolasers, Defensive Retrofit, Weapons Team, Support Team, Officer

Cost: 84 pts

Titles: Invisible Hand - This starship may field an additional upgrade card of either Weapons Team or Support Team, provided one example of that card is not already in use - 6 pts (Droid crews were augmented by Neimoidian crewmembers)

Zashchita (Eng. "Protector/Defender") - When enemy fighters at range 1-3 attack a friendly ship, Zashchita may engage the fighters with her anti-squadron armament -12 pts (Providence-class ships carried substantial flak-based point defense armament)

All costs are rough estimates. I tried using the formulas listed far earlier in this thread, but got absurd spread between the two outputs; I'm planning on taking another crack at them tonight. Feel free to tear into both the ships and the titles, they are just ideas I've had floating around my head for a while. Constructive criticism is always welcome.

Here is the collated work on the CIS that I could find. Obviously Tide of Progress VII is obsolete with the new Boosted Comms upgrade, but I'm sure we can come up with something clever. Shuffling command dials and/or tokens around like Leia/Raymus/Katana seems like a good idea, contingent on playtesting.

Hopefully I will be testing out some of the smaller Republic ships thi weekend.

I have a request - can you make a card for an 'objective' transport bases on Mel's bulk hauler model?

I want to play a scenario where each team gets a transport that they have to get into the enemy deployment zone, but the bulk hauler would need to be considerably stronger. Perhaps 4-6 shields on every side, speed 2, and a click of manoeuvring at speed 1 and 2.

Shields would be very powerful, hull very weak, to represent a modified industrial vessel.

Both sides would get an identical transport for free, but could pay to upgrade / pimp it with anything other than Engine techs/nav teams as that would be dirty cheating.

The idea of the mission would be to simultaneously defend your transport and attack the other team's transport, so the transport has to be tough enough to *probably* survive one full-force capital ship hit. but not be indestructible.

I'll put it on my to-do list... but it's quite a long one

The top priority now is the CIS, and finishing the GAR (still missing officers, and aces for the Z-95, V-Wing and Y-Wing squadrons).

By the way, I've been looking into professional printing of the cards on game-grade cardstock - there may be a small issue with bleed margins so I've ordered some prototypes for testing. Will post an update on the issue when I receive the prints in a couple of weeks.

Here's a first crack at the Munificent, based on the stats proposed by Giled (with small tweaks):





Note that the card format is slightly different (larger in all directions and with square corners) from the previous ones. That's because the new CIS template has been built with bleed margins for professional printing in mind - see the above post. I may still play around with the design, and will probably update the GAR template similarly, but the general appearance shouldn't change much. Anyway I intend to post all cards in a suitable format for home printing too, but it's far easier to start from a full-size image and crop it than the opposite.

....

Thank you to those who took there time to let me know what they thought.