I just wish FFG will make their own since I am not good at painting and would rather purchase official stuff.

Hey Isophane, I don't know if you're still watching this thread, but here are some variously-baked ideas on the CIS fleet mainstays. Each has two variants for now, with differences denoted by ";". I am trying to make my variants more a difference in capability than capability AND points, so both versions are equally viable in roughly the same numbers in a fleet.

Munificent-class Frigate

Hull: 5

Shields: 3/2/1; 3/3/1

Armament: RRRBK/RR/RB; RRB/RR/BB

Anti-Squadron: B

Command: 2

Squadron: 2;4

Engineering: 3;2

Defense: EBR

Maneuver: Nebulon?

Upgrades: ?

Cost: 65-70

This ship is a medium frigate, capable of engaging a Venator with numbers when necessary. The two variants are a dedicated ship-ship combat version, and a medium carrier to coordinate swarms of droid fighters, playing off supposed top-of-the-line sensor and communications technology each ship carried. The bulk of the firepower is forward on both versions, but the carrier version is more lightly armed to account for a greater fighter screen. (Again, I don't want the changes coming in cost where I can avoid it, that feels like cheating, even if I fully expect cost changes between variants). This is the only one from Mel so far, fyi.

Recusant-class light destroyer

Hull: 6
Shields: 3/3/1; 2/3/1

Armament: RBK/RBBK/B; BBK/RRKK/BK

Anti-Squadron: B

Command: 2/3? (Here I'm genuinely undecided, both variants will get the same command value)

Squadron: 1/2

Engineering: 4/3

Defense: EBR/BRR

Maneuver: AF2+? Speed 3 certainly

Upgrades: ? Ordnance?

Cost: 75

This ship is billed in the fluff as a fast commerce raider, if not known for intelligent maneuvering. Its role in this CIS lineup is to provide cheap tankiness and a broadside to complement the Munificent instead of the expensive Providence.

Providence-class destroyer/carrier

Hull: 8

Shields: 3/4/2;3/3/2

Armament: RRB/RRBKK/RB; RBB/RRBK/BB

Anti-Squadron: B

Command: 3

Squadron: 2/4

Engineering: 4/3

Defense: BRR

Maneuver: AF2; 1/1-/1--

Upgrades: ?

Cost: 85+

The Providence was the star of the CIS cruiser lineup, able to duke it out with Venators. As such, it is easily the toughest and most powerful ship here, with an obvious focus on broadsides, while also being extremely expensive compared to its cousins. As far as the change in maneuverability, the fluff claims carrier variant Providence-class ships suffered from a truncated engineering section to fit the bay into the ship, thus the lower engineering value and lesser maneuverability.

I'm not satisfied that none of these ships are OP yet, they certainly need play-testing and other opinions. My biggest concerns are thus: I have absolutely no clue what to do for upgrades, and they need to be balanced. The costs listed are EWGs, and need a better opinion than that. For upgrades, especially the Munificent and Recusant were primarily droid ships, so I would focus upgrades away from crew ones, but I don't have any idea how viable an idea that is. I've shown these to Myrmecology and he loves the various roles the ships can fill. Thoughts from the fine folks here?

Here's a first go, with hull 4 but upped shields and engineering to compensate:

If I change it to hull 5 (and command 2) at some point, I will drop engineering to 2 and rear shields to 1.

Why not hull 4 and engineering to 2 and rear shields to 1?

For the ARC: I didnt found it: Why the Counter 1?

For the Y-Wing: Very fitting to give it Counter 1 for the turret. However it should have less firepower then, because the A4 has it whole firepower avaibale for the pilot. It seem wrong to have Counter 1 on top of the firepower. Although I still think the Y-Wing has to few AntiSquadron in the first place (but its my favorite fighter(bomber), having downed 52 TIE-I in one mission with it.).

Hi giled pallaeon,

Thanks for the imput. I ordered a pair if munificents models from mel. The only thing I would change is the front arc dice.The munificents didnt have missiles from what I looked up; it had a heavy ion cannon at front. I would change that black dice to a blue. ( RRRB instead of RRRK). Now i just need to play test it once i get the shipment in. Then ill post the results later here.

Why not hull 4 and engineering to 2 and rear shields to 1?

For the ARC: I didnt found it: Why the Counter 1?

For the Y-Wing: Very fitting to give it Counter 1 for the turret. However it should have less firepower then, because the A4 has it whole firepower avaibale for the pilot. It seem wrong to have Counter 1 on top of the firepower. Although I still think the Y-Wing has to few AntiSquadron in the first place (but its my favorite fighter(bomber), having downed 52 TIE-I in one mission with it.).

Thanks for the feedback!

I've been working on a Republic template for squadrons:

I've tried to use the light tan and dark red of the Republic fleet. If you guys like them, I'll convert the other Clone Wars starfighters to match, and start work on a template for ships in the same style.

Looks alright to me. Good work. Doing your own borders or did you manage to find a suitable one?

Love the arc 170!!

Those are very nice cards. Diablo. Excellent work. Axe looks nice. Next time I do a custom match I'll let these fighters loose. (Now that I have enough stuff to run my own games with myself this is much easier.) For an ARC-170 ace, I would look at Oddball and some variety of ability that draws fire or attention to the ARC-170. Not escort per se, but something to let other fighters through the melee, as per the Battle of Coruscant. Something along the lines of un-attacked fighters engaged with the same fighters as Oddball are not engaged and can move (all fighters he is engaged with are Heavy against non-ARC-170s?), even if it is limited, basically a fighter Chiraneau. I'm not 100% on how to build that rule yet, I'll let you know when I have something more solid.

For the Separatist ships I posted a few days ago, here are some more solid ideas on upgrades and cost estimates.

Munificent-class Attack Frigate

Change Forward Black to Blue

Upgrades: Turbolasers, Ion Cannons, Defensive Retrofit

Cost: 65 pts

Munificent-class Light Carrier

Change Squadron 4 to 3

Upgrades: Turbolasers, Defensive Retrofit, Offensive Retrofit

Cost: 62 pts

Titles: Tide of Progress VII - All squadrons activated during a Squadron Command, may be at long range from the ship, provided all activated Squadrons are Vulture Droid fighters - 10 pts (Supposedly Munificent-class ships wielded superior comms and sensors.)

Chasovoy (Eng. "Sentinel") - Red Crit - The defending hull zone loses a shield when fired on from Chasovoy's front arc. If there are no shields left on that zone BEFORE the attack, the defender may not use Redirect defense tokens - 10 pts (Titanic forward turbolasers with superior shield penetration properties)

Recusant-class Assault Destroyer

Command: 3

Squadron: 2

AS: 2 Blue

Upgrades: Turbolasers, Ion Cannons, Offensive Retrofit

Cost: 77 pts

Recusant-class Missile Destroyer

Command: 3

Squadron: 2

Upgrades: Turbolasers, Ordnance, Support Team

Cost: 71 pts

Titles: Mortuum (Eng. "Death/Dead") - Critical Effect cards with the word "crew" in the Title have no effect - 15 pts (Primarily droid crew ship)

Subleuarent (Eng. "Raider") - When attacking ships without friendly ships within range 5, add one black dice to your attack - 9 pts (Raiding ship)

Providence-class Assault Cruiser

Upgrades: Turbolasers, Ordnance, Offensive Retrofit, Defensive Retrofit, Weapons Team, Officer

Cost: 88 points

Providence-class Fleet Carrier

Upgrades: Turbolasers, Defensive Retrofit, Weapons Team, Support Team, Officer

Cost: 84 pts

Titles: Invisible Hand - This starship may field an additional upgrade card of either Weapons Team or Support Team, provided one example of that card is not already in use - 6 pts (Droid crews were augmented by Neimoidian crewmembers)

Zashchita (Eng. "Protector/Defender") - When enemy fighters at range 1-3 attack a friendly ship, Zashchita may engage the fighters with her anti-squadron armament -12 pts (Providence-class ships carried substantial flak-based point defense armament)

All costs are rough estimates. I tried using the formulas listed far earlier in this thread, but got absurd spread between the two outputs; I'm planning on taking another crack at them tonight. Feel free to tear into both the ships and the titles, they are just ideas I've had floating around my head for a while. Constructive criticism is always welcome.

Looks alright to me. Good work. Doing your own borders or did you manage to find a suitable one?

Luckily I could re-use a lot of it for the ship template:

Now, though, I'm running into a problem. What do I do with Clone War-era ships that are still around in the time of the Civil War?

For example, consider the Dreadnought. At the moment, I have four versions:

-Rebel standard version

-Imperial Refit variant

-Rebel and Imperial Katana-fleet variants (identical)

Should I replace both Katana-fleet variants with a single Republic-era one? Or do Republic cards only make sense in a Clone Wars setting, in which case I should provide them in addition to any Rebel or Imperial versions (and will not worry about duplicated art)?

Similarly, with the Venator, I had made an obsolescent Republic-vintage card (pictured above) as well as modernized Imperial and Rebel refits. Not sure where to go from there.

Those are very nice cards. Diablo. Excellent work.

Thanks! I have a lot on my plate right now, but I'll look into Separatist ships sooner or later. Now that Republic ships are getting their own themed cards, it's the next logical step.

As for Oddball, it sounds like what you want is similar to one of the Rogues & Villains ace pilots (I forget which - maybe Jan Ors?), that caused all enemy squadrons at distance 1 to gain the Heavy keyword.

Take your time on the CIS ships. They're not going anywhere and I'm not done with them yet anyway. Now that I have seen Jan Ors, essentially yes. I promise I came up with that on my own though.

To the problem of era variants, I would do this. For most ships that saw action across both eras, I would leave them as is, with the understood rule that Republic ships later flew under Imperial colors and CIS ships under Rebel colors by and large. If there are ships that flew under colors other than their respective successor state, I would note it by dividing the faction logo in half and putting half of each logo on each side, but don't stress over it. For the example of the Dreadnoughts, leave the Rebel and Imperial Refits alone, then give the Katana Fleet version a logo that is half GR, indicating likely Imperial service, and half RA, to indicate that many were seized and stolen. That ought to minimize duplicate cards methinks. And besides, these are custom games. If your opponent is chill with two Munificents running swarms of ARC-170s against Venators running Vulture droids, all the more power to the pair of you.

The republic brackets look great Diablo!

Here's my first go at the Acclamator:

Both ships look good to me. I like the hesitancy to give the ships too much firepower, and relegate them to little more than tanking enemy fire. For lessening the Acc-1's firepower, I would look at dropping a black die, but that is certainly a task for playtesting. Oddball seems alright, I'd want to experiment with him. Negating counter attacks is only useful against a tiny subset of craft, albeit one that may be about to jump up in size with the addition of rogues and villains.

Negating counter attacks is only useful against a tiny subset of craft, albeit one that may be about to jump up in size with the addition of rogues and villains.

While an enemy squadron at distance 1 attacks another friendly squadron, the attack is obstructed.

You, sir, are a genius. I love it, that's exactly what I'm looking for. It puts a hole in offensive capability without unnecessarily penalizing the original ace.

I'm working on better cost estimates for the CIS ships I've listed to date, hopefully the formulas will be a little more forgiving this time (twenty and thirty point spreads aren't conducive to good creation). I'm also going to post all their attributes in one big post when I'm done. One consideration Myrmecology and I had was giving the CIS ships an officer equivalent. As they were primarily droid-crewed, we shied away from the people upgrade cards (officer, both varieties of teams) for the most part, but weren't sure if that put an unfair hole in their usefulness. We were however also loathe to create a whole new type of upgrade card for three ships. Thoughts from this forum?

Could always create a droid crew upgrade card that provides some sort of benefit and a negative. Reduce the command value of the ship by 1, but allow them to have no more then one token on hand as droid crews have poor initiative.

So... Diablo, do you still use these formulas? https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1371685/how-cost-customs-and-variants-point-formulas-and-o Because I appear to have broken them.... Below is listed all of my work on the CIS ships, Munificent, Recusant, and Providence classes, as well as general theorizing on titles. Each ship has several costs listed, because these formulas are literally all over the place for me. Anyone with ideas about solving this, please please chime in. Other minds and thoughts are most welcome.

Munificent-class Frigate (Attack Frigate/Attack Carrier)

Hull: 5

Shields: 3,3,1/3,2,1

Armament: RRRBB,RR,RB/RRB,RR,BB

Anti-Squadron: B

Command: 2

Squadron: 1/3

Engineering: 3/2

Defense: EBR

Maneuver: 1, 1 - ,2 1 - (Nebulon-B)

Upgrades: Turbolasers, Ion Cannons, Defensive Retrofit/Turbolasers, Offensive Retrofit, Defensive Retrofit

Cost: RogueKnight 56/53 (Seems low);

Firesped 70 (35 if you use Med Ship)/58 (23 if you use Med Ship);

My Guesses 65/62

Titles: Tide of Progress VII - Vulture Droid Fighters May Be Activated By Squadron Command at Range 5, Trifighters and Hyena Bombers at Range 4 - 10 pts

Chasovoy ("Sentinel") - Red Crit - Defending Hull Zone Loses One Shield Point. If No Shields are Available, No Redirect Defense Tokens May Be Used - 10 pts

Recusant-class Destroyer (Assault Destroyer/Missile Destroyer)

Hull: 6

Shields: 3,3,1/2,3,1

Armament: RBK,RBBK,B/BBK,RRKK,BK

Anti-Squadron: BB/B

Command: 3

Squadron: 2

Engineering: 3

Defense: EBR/BRR

Maneuver: AF2

Upgrades: Turbolasers, Ion Cannons, Offensive Retrofit/Turbolasers, Ordnance, Support Team

Cost: RogueKnight 60/53 (Seems awfully low);

Firesped 39 (4 if you use Med Ship)/33 (-2 if you use Med Ship) (This is obviously, hilariously wrong):

My Guesses 77/71

Titles: Mortuum ("Death/Dead") - Face-Up Damage Cards Including the Word Crew Have No Effect - 15 pts

Subleuarent ("Raider") - If Attacking a Ship with no Friendly Ships Within Range 5, Add One Black Die to Attack Pool - 9 pts

Providence-class Destroyer/Carrier (Assault Cruiser/Fleet Carrier)

Hull: 8

Shields: 3,4,2/3,3,2

Armament: RBK,RRBKK,RB/BBK,RRBK,BB

Anti-Squadron: B

Command: 3

Squadron: 1/4

Engineering: 4/3

Defense: BRR (Contain Instead of Redirect?)

Maneuver: AF2/1,1-,1- -

Upgrades: Turbolasers, Ordnance, Offensive Retrofit, Defensive Retrofit, Weapons Team, Officer/Turbolasers, Defensive Retrofit, Weapons Team, Support Team, Officer

Cost: RogueKnight 73/70;

Firesped 118 (83 if you use Med Ship)/103 (68 if you use Med Ship);

My Guesses 88/84;

Titles: Invisible Hand - This Starship May Field Another Weapons or Support Team, Provided That Team Is Not Already In Use - 6 pts

Zashchita ("Protector/Defender") - When Enemy Fighters At Range 1-3 Attack a Friendly Ship, Zashchita May Engage the Fighters With Her Anti-Squadron Armament -12 pts

Now that large bases are on the horizon, I would love to see a Lucrehulk battleship. Fighters would need to surpass the ISD, maybe similar number of shots, dut all blue an black.

Droid Fighters could have the rule:

Droids: Can never be activated in the ship phase. Or something like that.

Many of the Droid fighter carriers carry tons of them. Give the carrier types high squadron values, and keep droid costs low. Mitigate the numbers advantage with te following squadron rule;

Droids: squadrons with the droid keyword may only move with a squadron command.

May force the droid player to have to coordinate his horde a little more carefully. Anyway just a thought on how to make them more unique.

I like those droid ideas! I'm looking forward to start working on CIS cards.

This should be the last Republic ship, at least for now:

And a Civil War-era version with a heavy Ion Cannon:

Next step - bases and unique titles for all Republic ships. In the meantime, feedback and suggestions are welcome!

Why the contain tokens?