I actually like the vertically aspect of X-wing when it regards to overlapping so that there is no automatic deaths in crashes. With the Imperial Raider coming out in the near future the one thing that bothered me is that huge ships cannot overlap. So I was thinking maybe there should be some rule that when a huge ship overlaps a small or large ship instead of automatically destroying the smaller ship the ship may have a chance at evading. (and no this is not because of the results in this thread ).

So this is my concept.

A small or large base ship may attempt an evade after a huge ship performs a maneuver as long as:

• It has no stress tokens
• It is not under the effect of Ion Tokens
• It has Agility > 0 (So Oicun will still have bitten it in the tail)

If an evasion attempt cannot be made the ship is automatically destroyed. The evasion attempt will made with a single defense die. This # of defense dice in an evasion attempt cannot be increased or reduced. On an evade result the ship has successfully evaded collision with the huge ship. Any other results the ship is destroyed. The ship may modify their defense dice with tokens or other abilities.

On a successful evade result move the ship out of the path of the big ship using straight maneuver templates either in the front or the back guides and slide it out of the path then move the ship back along the maneuver templates so that it is touching the huge ship. If there is no room to where the ship bases can remain touching the owner of the huge ship may re-position the ships base so that it is touching the huge ship base but remains facing the same direction.

Ships overlapping a huge ship cannot attack the huge ship that they are overlapping. Huge ships may perform attacks on any ship that their base is touching.

Opinions? Comments?

I like it. I don't have anything to add other than I also do not like the auto death.

So make a resource for ships that already have a hard time with swarms, have a harder time with swarms. Im sorry but with how slow epic ships move, you either played your small ship badly or got caught with your pants down if it wasn't deliberately put in front of the epic as a mini bomb. So no, I don't think it needs anything of the sort, don't fly directly at the front next time.

something should change. Huge ships mak a no-fly zone that can take a lot of the maneuver options out of close engagements.

My house rules are roll a number of red dice equal to remaining hull and shields, suffer resultant damage. May get off scott free, probably loose half you health, might blow up entirely. Fast and easy, while still being possibly deadly.

something should change. Huge ships mak a no-fly zone that can take a lot of the maneuver options out of close engagements.

That sounds like a properly epic thing to me.

something should change. Huge ships mak a no-fly zone that can take a lot of the maneuver options out of close engagements.

True, but with the CR-90, and especially with the Imperial Raider, there is a pretty decently sized blind spot in the aft section. Aim for that and you should be pretty good. Not only will you avoid getting steamrolled, but you also won't even be shot at by those behemoths.

EDIT: OK, so the CR-90 blindspot isn't that big, but it could be depending on the load out.

So make a resource for ships that already have a hard time with swarms, have a harder time with swarms. Im sorry but with how slow epic ships move, you either played your small ship badly or got caught with your pants down if it wasn't deliberately put in front of the epic as a mini bomb. So no, I don't think it needs anything of the sort, don't fly directly at the front next time.

well squadrons in armada don't get squashed if they are overlapped.

The huge ship will still be able to shoot at the ships it is overlapping. Besides other ships can overlap without collision, maybe make it an upgrade like a huge ship only modification to make ramming even better. Yeah I know Epic isn't what X-wing miniatures is focused on and it is not supposed to be balanced or competitive but that doesn't mean the theme and balance can't be tweaked a little.

I don't like random, swingy events in games of skill. Reducing the fate of 12 to 60+ points of ship down to a single green die just seems arbitrary and anticlimactic.

I don't like random, swingy events in games of skill. Reducing the fate of 12 to 60+ points of ship down to a single green die just seems arbitrary and anticlimactic.

lol then why are you playing a game with dice in it?

Well because as of now 12 to 60+ points just go away (no roll no evade no fate or nothing). Even with the single evade ramming still will be possible and valid tactic, after all that is still placing fate on a ship to a single dice roll if they make the mistake of moving into the path of the huge ship. Also if done right with stress and ion tokens the ship won't have its fate tied to a single die roll as the ship will just die. Also say if a ship can maintain a focus or evade token it can use that to avoid a squishy fate so only poor flyers will have to rely on a single die roll.

Still the best argument against this proposal is that Huge ships are so underpowered and they need every help they can get. However huge ships also move so slow that to try and overlap a ship is practically impossible unless you are playing against (or with) someone who doesn't know what they are doing (and that is VERY common in epic).

However if that is the case it just shows how poorly designed the Huge ships are, to be honest I hope the Raider can tear through swarms so that there is a reason to load a corvette with single turbolasers and hit the Raider at range 5. We will see when Epic comes out, but if it is still the case that huge ships are so underpowered than removing the instant-death rule won't be that much of a strike against epic. If you are that worried about balance or randomness or top tier metagame then go stay with standard 100 point matches. You got your little C-3PO card, you do not need to play Epic games if your concerned with what is competitive or not.

I like the hull plus shield equal you take that many red dice of damage. It would be fun that way. Missed me by that much...

Not sure what I think about the evade chance. I kind of like having to avoid the front of those huge ships. And it adds a bit to the skill factor of the epics to move in a way that will limit your opponents choices. Without the ramming being a big issue I think it might just feel like they are just big turrets. Might be worth a try though.

I haven't really played Epic so I can't comment on if it's needed but it sounds i teresting.

How about;

(Agility of small/large ship) - (Speed of Huge Ship) = Number of Evade dice rolled.

Set the number of needed evades to whatever you want, presumably 1 still as the Original post. Stress and Ion negate the ability to roll. evade tokens and any pilot or upgrade abilities are ignored and do not modify the roll.

An Interceptor has a good chance to gtfo of the path of a slow moving Huge ship but the faster that Huge guy is moving, the smaller the chance becomes. Less agile ships are stuffed even with the huge ship moving a 1.

Could perhaps favour Imperials too much though?

A simple method we use. Which makes it more fun

If you move and overlap

Suffer 1 stress token, and

Small ship roll 2 attack dice, no defense

Large ship roll 1 attack die, no defense

Huge, as standard

If the target ship suffers damage then the Huge ship rolls 1 attack dice on itself

If you are overlapped by the ship

Suffer 2 Stress tokens and

Small Ship roll 3 attack dice, no defense

Large ship roll 2 attack die, no defense

Huge, as standard

The crushing rules are less for deliberate ramming (although Ion can make ramming a great tactic) and more to give the Huge ships presence. You move for them, not the other way around.

I have a question about this: if I move a small ship and overlap a huge one, I throw the red dice to see if I take the damage, right? But what happens if, when it's the huge ship's turn to move, it ends up overlapping the ship it's already in contact with? Is the small ship destroyed anyway?

If a non-huge ship blocks a huge ship's movement that ship gets smashed against the windshield into lots of tiny ship fragments. Unless they hit another Huge Ship Huge Ships always complete their move and annihilate anything in their way. Which is why you stay away from the front: attack it from behind or from the side and there's no risk of being rammed.

I have a question about this: if I move a small ship and overlap a huge one, I throw the red dice to see if I take the damage, right? But what happens if, when it's the huge ship's turn to move, it ends up overlapping the ship it's already in contact with? Is the small ship destroyed anyway?

If a non-huge ship blocks a huge ship's movement that ship gets smashed against the windshield into lots of tiny ship fragments. Unless they hit another Huge Ship Huge Ships always complete their move and annihilate anything in their way. Which is why you stay away from the front: attack it from behind or from the side and there's no risk of being rammed.

Pretty much sums it up. If you bump in the front of the huge ship you might as well call it a loss. If you bump in the sides it depends on what direction it turns.

No. Heck no!

You're starting to see why HUGE SHIPS cost so much. Auto-death-collision is fine. If you can't out-maneuver the worse DIAL in the game, you might be playing X-WING wrong.

"I can't deal with this 'no-fly zone' Huge ships create!"

Going from Standard 100pt to Epic 200/300pt requires [leveling up] your pregame planning.

If you drive through the railway crossing when a train is coming it's your fault when you and car are turned into an unrecognizable mess.

This is a non-issue.

1.) If it takes out your 60 point fat Deci, good. Stop power squadding for casual epic, it's annoying. Play something other than a fat turret for once god **** it.

2.) If you're aware of the rule there is no issue. Play cautiously when you get near an epic ship.

3.) Didn't we all start complaining about how epic ships aren't worth their points and that an equivalent amount of spammed small ships is a better value? Why are you so intent on nerfing them?

The huge ship running over the smaller ones would make sense if the battle was on a flat plane. However, X-wing is suppose to represent 3D space combat. I find the huge ship ramming Insta-death kind of silly. It seems like too much of an over-simplification. Like FFG thought about it for 5 minutes and was like, yeah that works.

Its not a game breaker for me, but I like some of the house rules people have proposed in this thread.

I prefer auto-death. This game is random enough as it is. It needs less dice rolling, not more.

The huge ship running over the smaller ones would make sense if the battle was on a flat plane. However, X-wing is suppose to represent 3D space combat. I find the huge ship ramming Insta-death kind of silly. It seems like too much of an over-simplification. Like FFG thought about it for 5 minutes and was like, yeah that works.

Its not a game breaker for me, but I like some of the house rules people have proposed in this thread.

Then don't think of it as squashing them, think of it as the ship getting far to close to have any opportunity to evade the barrage of fire from its vastly more powerful guns and call it a day

Wait...I can put vastly powerful guns on the GR-75? I've been playing it wrong all along!!!

Joking aside, I think this is a solution in search of a problem. Out maneuvering huge ships isn't all that difficult, and making ramming less viable eliminates one of my favorite uses for the transport: zone denial and possible ramming fun. Some of these suggestions are neat (I particularly like the roll red dice equal to health), but in the end, the current rules have a simplicity that works well within the confines of the game.

If anyone wants to come up with a multi-planed surface with altitude changes (I'm imagining Vulcan chess), the I'm totally down with giving that a spin.

I actually like the vertically aspect of X-wing when it regards to overlapping so that there is no automatic deaths in crashes. With the Imperial Raider coming out in the near future the one thing that bothered me is that huge ships cannot overlap. So I was thinking maybe there should be some rule that when a huge ship overlaps a small or large ship instead of automatically destroying the smaller ship the ship may have a chance at evading. (and no this is not because of the results in this thread ).

So this is my concept.

A small or large base ship may attempt an evade after a huge ship performs a maneuver as long as:

• It has no stress tokens
• It is not under the effect of Ion Tokens
• It has Agility > 0 (So Oicun will still have bitten it in the tail)

If an evasion attempt cannot be made the ship is automatically destroyed. The evasion attempt will made with a single defense die. This # of defense dice in an evasion attempt cannot be increased or reduced. On an evade result the ship has successfully evaded collision with the huge ship. Any other results the ship is destroyed. The ship may modify their defense dice with tokens or other abilities.

On a successful evade result move the ship out of the path of the big ship using straight maneuver templates either in the front or the back guides and slide it out of the path then move the ship back along the maneuver templates so that it is touching the huge ship. If there is no room to where the ship bases can remain touching the owner of the huge ship may re-position the ships base so that it is touching the huge ship base but remains facing the same direction.

Ships overlapping a huge ship cannot attack the huge ship that they are overlapping. Huge ships may perform attacks on any ship that their base is touching.

Opinions? Comments?

Well lets be fair here:

I would change it so every ship, but a Huge could evade. But say those with a 0 agility cannot modify dice.

Also, I would say if you evade, you skip the perform action phase when you move next. Just like the conner net. Let's face it your busy evading so you cannot get your action.

Also what happens if you have an evade token, do you automatic evade if you spend it? I assume so, but just checking.