So, have two questions, both kind of pointless, but they had my curiosity. First, are voidships often painted? I have seen Battlefleet Gothic ships, and many of them are often painted, like 40K minis are, but while I might see the different colors of the Astartes armors serving a purpose, painting a two mile long ship would just seem superfluous, even by RT standards of practices, and much like the Golden Gate Bridge, someone would have to be doing touch-ups year round. One of my RT's important colors is green. Would his ship be a big gray slab in space? A gray slab with some green lines and panels? A green slab? One of those little things where comparing the RPG to the TT minis game might fail me. I don't know if most Chaos ships in RT are just red for the hell of it, or big metal slabs of steel colors. If Eldar ships are often light blue, or if they are dark colors, to help blend with the space backdrop.

Second, how much do Eldar really value individual lives among their race? I know that they'll willingly sacrifice millions of Humans to save a small amount of Eldar, when they can, but how much "insubordination will they tolerate from their own? If they kill traitors, they can collect their soulstones, and it's a step closer to the Ynnead Plan, but they seem to preserve Eldar life, and don't take every opportunity to kill DE, which are all traitorous a-holes. Would they simply try to curtail the renegades' actions, and let them live, or eliminate them as a threat to the rest of their people?

1) Painting ships should be ridiculously impractical, and it's for that reason that I believe Rogue Traders do go to extreme lengths to paint their ships a ridiculous colour. The hilarity comes from the scale of voidship combat, and the certain knowledge that almost no one apart from themselves will ever see it, but it is something I can see a lot of them doing. It's a status thing you know.

2) Exodite Eldar seem to have more of a tribal lifestyle, so it's possible they do. Craftworld Eldar will exile people from a Craftworld, and they go to live the life of a Corsair, who might enforce a more brutal style of justice. A couple points about the the Eldar to keep in mind is that they aren't human, and they are strictly regulated from a young age so they will behave and react to things very different from ours. Also they are always aware of the yawning Hell that awaits them upon death, which is a great incentive for staying around the people who offer them literally the only hope they'll ever have.

However in extreme cases I have no problems believing they would kill their own if it served their interests. In my mind this would be an unbelievably rare occurrence because of the risks it poses.

1) Gets brought up in my game a bit. Whenever they decide to repaint something, we instantly jump to the image of thousands of servitors, indentured servants, and slaves crawling all over the ship with spray cans. It's totally ridiculous. But the IoM is hardly a picture of efficiency. I can see them reasoning that with as many man centuries they already pour into construction they can afford a few dozen more deaths. As far as them having to be touched up, I'm just guessing they have super Grim Dark space paint made from the dead bodies of hallowed saints or something. When ships are out on the prowl for hundreds of years, barely keeping it together. They're not painting their ships, and they're never mentioned having crappy paint jobs. So I've just written off the upkeep as the Imperium not bothering with technology that isn't robust, including voidship paint.

2) I view the Eldar as this small dying society. While they may have resigned themselves to slow extinction, they're not trying to help it along. They make great efforts to limit their deaths, including among their rivals. I assume they go out of their way to try to repopulate. I presume they're ready to kill each other, but only as a last resort. That they are more likely to exile someone who has committed a vile crime, than kill them. I see them coming to blows on occasion, but not even a drop in the ocean compared to how it is with humans and orks.

1) Yes, why not? If you are gonna plaster thousands of statues of imperial saints, a golden aquila the size of an apartment building and a frikkin cathedral for your ships superstructure, why not paint your ships?

From the movels we get pre heresy Emperors children and blood angels with heay ornate ships while the death guard and iron hands, prefered bare metal and unadorned ships.

There is another mention of a Khornate chaos spaceship, miles long, completly covered in human skulls.

2)Eldar are not above killing each other for transgressions, but like N00b sais, you probably get exiled in most cases.

it's not like the imperium where you can get executed for looking at a picture of the Emperor funny.

The Golden Gate bridge is a specious analogy. That requires constant touching up because of wind and weather but a voidship's paint will, barring enemy fire/asteroid collision/etc, remain perfect for eternity.

1) everything about 40k ships is riddiculous. I'd say painting them is one of the easier things.

2) The Eldar value individual lives of everything really high. They won't kill an Eldar for no reason and they will not kill a human for no reason. That being said, they will even slaughter entire planets if that proves necessary. Of course, they value their brethen above other races, but that's pretty natural (instinct of survival, basically). Slaughtering of human populations usually happens because of how easily we fall into the hands of chaos, they do it to prevent it when they find out we were exposed to it.

I cannot picture an Eldar doing something so evil that they would actually have to kill him. They usually don't even have to banish the ones that are not welcome, they will just leave because they know they should. Remember that the Eldar are allmost brainwashed into following the paths or leaving the craftworld. Also, keep in mind that the outcasts are welcome back as soon as they decide to come back to the safety of the Paths, and they are free to visit the craftworlds whenever they want (even if the other Eldar are usually uncomfortable around them).

The Ynnead divination isn't exactly a granted. It is perceived as something that will "probably" happen, much like the last judgement in european society.

Their relationship with the dark kin is... awkward. The Craftworld Eldar are scared of them, and the Dark Eldar think the others to be the "worse" breed, but at the end of the day (although they would never admit it) they care for each other. Examples of that would be the Dark Eldar saving the Iyanden craftworld from the waagh or [PATH OF THE WARRIOR (which you will probably never read, more so because it is pretty bad) SPOLERS] Kenainath sparing Becharetch, the dark eldar incubus that was taken captive and even letting him join his shrine (even though the striking scorpions are probably the ones that hate Incubi the most because of Arhra probably being Drazhar).

I dunno, Artha is described as "succumbed to the darkness in his soul and now burns with the black light of chaos" The dark eldar don't want anything to do with chaos either.

I dunno, Artha is described as "succumbed to the darkness in his soul and now burns with the black light of chaos" The dark eldar don't want anything to do with chaos either.

Yeah, but a) the DE don't know who Drazhar is, either, b) it is hinted that Arhra did the right thing, but the other Eldar don't know that (and that the "succumbing to chaos" part isn't exactly true), and c) Drazhar and the Phoenix lords are pretty much identical in the tabletop wh40k rules.

The Golden Gate bridge is a specious analogy. That requires constant touching up because of wind and weather but a voidship's paint will, barring enemy fire/asteroid collision/etc, remain perfect for eternity.

In theory, yes. However, there is also the effects of continued radiation exposure, which could well bleach or otherwise alter the pigments (the Apollo 11 flag on the moon, for example, is now completely white, rather than the red, white and blue stars and stripes) and arguably* micrometeorite/trace particle strikes (even deep space isn't a complete vacuum... although it comes close).

That said the Imperial Navy, and many merchant marine and privately-flagged vessels totally paint their hulls. Why? Advertisement when entering port, tradition, devotion to the God-Emperor/Omnissiah, Keynesian econimcs, pride, punishment/penal details, or even because the captain thought it would look cool.

Also, never mind spray cans, think more along these lines . Actually, given the size of the Red Dwarf , that's not a bad analogy at all...

*I say arguably because these could be counted in your own statement.

There's a nice little bit in one of the Star Wars novels about a guy called Booster Terrik who comes into a Star Destroyer after the fall of the Empire. He wants to paint it red all over but the only paint available in sufficient quantities is Star Destroyer White, which he takes to be proof the the Emperor was out to annoy him personally all along

I figured the paint was just a patchwork of wildly colored aluminum foil with adhesive backing. You don't notice the patchwork because of the scale.

I can get the Eldar exiling troublesome folks, except that, in this case, it doesn't stop the trouble. The Eldar faction are ferrying people through the Webway, and unless you can take their keys away, AND they can't make another, exiling them just puts them outside your perception range. I'm having the Harlequins hold action, so to say, because the Eldar CAN move through the Webway, and the Tau can't use it alone, so nothing "bad" is happening, but I'm not sure if the rest of the Eldar would just say "meh, do whatever, but keep an eye on your Tau", or if they'd go all arrogant/high and mighty, and pronounce judgment on their brethren, for granting the Tau limited access to things they don't need to know, in order to get them places where they aren't already a menace. If nothing else, it's an excuse for Cirdanvae to tell Qel-Drake, and get some use out of him, and also for Qel-Drake to have to deal with the Navy, who aren't overly fond of him, especially after they LOVED his father, for real. It'll make for an interesting story, and maybe be an excuse to invent some more "interesting" Tau personae.

As for the Exalted Wyrm's paint job, I'm thinking it'll be a lot of "ship's hull" color, with areas painted green, so it isn't just a Tyrant cruiser-shaped wedge of green drifting through space.

I'd imagine that most Eldar would be somewhat upset, but I also imagine not many of them would bother to act overtly over it. They're trying to save their strength, and getting into an internecine conflict because one of group of guys is letting a few of the less threatening Xenos mess around with the webway doesn't seem like an efficient expenditure of Eldar blood. Still one Eldar setting a proxie upon them is more than appropriate.

1. I don't see the Imperial Navy painting their ships. It's not practical. A Rogue Trader, on the other hand, is all about image. A painted voidship rolling into port is like the 40k version of some rapper pulling up to the club in a bright-yellow Lamborghini. Rogue Traders are all about that bling, son.

2. Craftworld Eldar each seem to have their own, distinct philosophies based on which Craftworld they are from. Exodites tend to have more of a tribal mentality. Corsairs are what their name suggests. No matter what origin of the Eldar in question, they do not callously kill their own kind or undertake actions which will needlessly result in Eldar deaths. Their attitudes towards non-Eldar is obviously going to be considerably different, but that doesn't mean they kill frivolously. I've always seen the Eldar as having a plan that stretches beyond a normal human's ability to grasp from observing any 1 part of it. In my mind, the Eldar are like a grand master chess player, they are always thinking a half-dozen moves ahead.

it's not like the imperium where you can get executed for looking at a picture of the Emperor funny.

I can only assume it will be the same verdict when somebody creates cartoons of the Emperor.

In my 40k universe, they are painted. especially the prow. Navies and RT fleets and Aliens.

but tech has advanced, and so has paint, which for them may be a substance we in the 2nd millenium

may not fully grasp.

Well the Rak-Gol don't paint. Necron ships would be not painted as such, but the metals

would rearrange their surfaces in patterns pleasing to a Necron eye.

Almost all the navies are preserving traditions held over from sea-water navies,

so the painting one would still apply. IMHO.

Beyond the decoration and esprit-de-corps, the covering can preserve and extend the life of the hull.

the fact that it's ablative just gives the new ratings something to do instead of shore leave.

===

As to the Eldar question I can't answer. I use a random chart to decide their actions.

***************SOME NEW QUESTIONS***************

These ones are, perhaps, a little bit sillier, but here we go.

1. Who might have a fleet of ships? So, have any of you played Imperium Galactica 2? If you have, and you did the Solarian (Human) campaign, one of the random eventuals you might experience is you receive a message from a pirate leader who controls his own world, and has a fleet of ships under his banner. If you frequently attack pirate interests, he takes note. He is interested in you, being that you are the Emperor of the Solarian race (his race, as it were) marrying his daughter, allowing him to enter your empire, but likely in a way that allows him to keep his control of what is his, already. His daughter, a powerful pirate and commander in her own right, isn't impressed with this idea, or with you, and challenges you to battle, with you having to match her fleet with one of similar power, making it a true test of command skill. If you don't meet her in time, or show up with a super fleet, she leaves, and you fail. If you win, pirate activity ceases to be a problem, and you can choose to appoint her as one of your admirals/generals, or you can accept her hand in marriage, pissing off your cabinet, and getting her as a fleet with some nice bonuses. So, the point here is, if you are a Rogue Trader with a desire to expand your fleet access, and you don't want to buy them one at a time, or capture them, whom might be a good "get it through marriage" candidate? RTs have married other people for much less physical gain.
2. If you happen to have a fleet, or are making an NPC, say an Admiral, who does (you pissed of Horne, or some such), or are a powerful Raider, in command of a raiding force, are there any benefits to grab that make you a better asset to a fleet? The Gryphon has a Fleet Flag Bridge, but are there any talents to make you even more powerful, once you command several ships? Anything besides maxxing out Command?
3. I accept, for the most part, that most planets can't be ship-builder worlds, because that's sort of what Forge Worlds are for, but what is needed for keeping several, maybe a unit of them, in orbit, and having good repair facilities? If you are a "raider admiral", or whatever, where do your ships go between raids, and get fixed, as known pirates might find official channels blocked.
4. Is there a Scintilla-like planet in the Expanse? I know that RTs can easily fly into Calixis, and go party with the Scintilla bigwigs, but if you have obvious xenotech on your ship, or employ them among your crew, you might not want to chance it. Footfall is important, but it sounds all seedy, and there aren't too many "nobles" there, that I know of. In the Expanse, where do your crews go to hobnob and party?
5. Lastly, is there a book with good info on Port Wrath? Like what assets MIGHT be there, and whose in charge? It seems like the last bastion of REAL Imperial power, since Port Wander is a seedy hellhole, as is Footfall, and FBMetis is supposedly unknown to most people. If you had to run to the Navy, letting them know you found something terrible, Wrath is where I think you'd go, but I have little info on the place, itself, and wondered if one of the books maybe even DH books, had some more detail on it?

Okay, the babbleathon is done, for now. Thanks for any assistance.

1. Within the Imperium, there are only 4 groups allowed to privately own ships (legally). Navigator Houses, Merchant Houses (Chartist Ships), Free Traders (1 ship each), and Rogue Traders. A Navigator house isn't going to take you, so that one's out. Marrying into a Merchant House is likely to get you occasional access to their ships, but if the Daughter in this case is the Lady of the House, she's nearly as powerful, and likely far wealthier, and is going to want to make sure any 'loaning' of her ships is going to result in a net profit. Marrying another Rogue Trader is even more of this give-and-take as your essentially sharing resources depending on who can make the most use of them. A free trader, lastly, is the one that would most likely cause the ship to be close to 'yours', though considering how inseparable most free traders are from their ship, the ultimate arrangement isn't that different from hiring them.

For non-legal sources of ships, you have Pirates and Chaos. Chaos is a bad idea for a lot of reasons, so toss that out, that leaves regular pirates. Most warp-capable pirates in 40k only have a single ship. A some might have a couple of ships under their command - any more than that and you'd need a major dock to support them, and those are fairly quickly found and eliminated by the Navy or taken by Chaos. A pirate queen who is, for what ever reason, seeking legitimacy might bring her fleet with her to a marriage. Even then I would hesitate to call the ships 'yours'. After all, do you really want to argue with your Pirate Queen wife?

2. As far as I recall, there aren't any mechanical methods to increase fleet effectiveness or fleet command. Tactica and Navigate: Stellar would also be important skills though.

3. The Bulwark above Damaris is the best example we have of this, and the only one we really have detailed in the Expanse. (Winterscale probably has something in his realm as well.) It's a small moon built out with space station materials, docking piers et al. It's entirely possible there are small rogue space stations out there that are more than willing to turn a blind eye to your credentials in exchange for what ever goods your offloading and repairs your paying for. It's also given that a lot of Pirates do much of their repairs just drifting in orbit above a habitable world where they can send people out for shore leave, to gather food & water, and mostly shut the ship down.

4. The two most developed worlds we're given in the Expanse are Footfall and Damaris. If your at Footfall, your not there for what passes as local nobility, but rather there to party/socialize with your fellow Rogue Traders. Damaris has some local nobility that might be worth socializing with, but even as developed as it is - it's no Scintilla yet. Other than Rogue Traders, there just isn't enough in the Expanse to support more than a couple high nobles.

5. Can't help you there, though I note that Port Wander is a Navy Port, even if it has a shady civilian side. If you need to talk with the Navy - Port Wander is the best place to do it, or hail a ship thats passing through or hanging around Footfall (if there is one).

There are several shady organizations/polities in the Expanse that have considerable navies that might or might not be associated with Chaos/The Imperium. Presumably they also have repair facilities to maintain these large-ish fleets. The Corsair Fleet of Jalthus Mettiere has a grand cruiser and numerous smaller vessels. The Cortelax Confederacy has a couple-score ships of which at least 10 are capital ships. Stars of Inequity has some sidebars that briefly mention some established colonies out there and provides stats that hint they are well-developed. Since Damaris was thrown into a publication, I'd feel free to use that as a hint and develop a few more of my own. Both Stars of Inequity and (either the core books or GMs guide, I forget which) has Pirate Havens listed as encounter possibilities. I'd think they have a decent chance of basing out of abandoned orbital docks, maybe of xenos origin. And for that matter, the xenos have their own repair facilities out there; the Haven-class Spire Station in the Serpent's Cradle and the Soulreaver's Galean Sphere stick out. The Intro adventure in the core book gives the legend of a world out there that was technologically advanced. With the injection of warp tech, such a place could build a shipyard. Given 100K stars and stellar remnants in the Koronus Expanse it's not a stretch to think that more exist.

As far as marriages are concerned I think a pirate wanting to go legit is a prime candidate. They need something the RT has, said legitimacy, access to a new identity, family background, and name change.

1. There's a few different groups who might have fleets. RTs, Pirate Captain Lords, merchant consortiums, admech explorator fleets. Chaos Lords, Xenos. When it comes to securing ships via marriage. Marrying either the RT or any of his family members, closer is better, to some of these types should work. Pirates get to legitimatize themselves, no more (or less) running from the navy. They get to be all fancy like and hang out with a bunch of rich guys at fancy parties in snazzy clothes. They're likely to make more money, have more support, and more opportunities. It's just a step up in the world. The same is likely true for most other groups lower on the totem pole than an RT (ie most people), though I'd imagine it'd be the most pronounced with a pirate. Their ships would be pledged to the RT and they may be somewhat uppity. What's the difference between having a spouse or an in-law running an offscreen fleet versus a nameless captain? Relatives are more fun IMO. Plus when they're dead 200 years from now, there's no unspoken asterisk on that contract.

I'd stick to at least nominally pious Imperials though. I don't care how charming or how powerful a xeno or chaos lord is, I wouldn't get married to them in a legal public fashion. Best case scenario they legit aren't going to interfere with your interests ever, and are insanely good at faking being a proper Imperial human. So good that they'll stand up to the scrutiny of suddenly existing and being obviously tied publicly to an RT. Whether it's the paperwork(she's a tribal who barely speaks gothic!), being surrounded by spies, having to testify at a hearing, biometric scans, telepaths. That's a lot of potential tests to beat ("Oh you meant him on some space hulk? Cool"). That Kharn the Betrayer ripoff might be quite dapper, he may have stolen your heart(that's like a -8 rending on the crit table), and he may have an awesome warband. But if wanna put on a ring on his finger, don't send the paper work to the administratum, and just keep it deniable. This is all of course assuming you actually trust either a xeno or a high corruption proper Champion of Chaos, or at least trust them enough to consider that angle a moot issue.

2. None that I could think of. Ships don't seem to have many

3. Damaris has a decent example. I imagine that Damaris is unusual, but not a singular example of such a planet. I have a few planets a bit more developed than that in my games. I like the feel, and I feel there's enough to suggest it doesn't totally fly in the face of the established material.

4. Damaris is pretty civilized. So same answer as above basically.

5. Port Wander is a bit of a boomtown, and has it's fair share of warts. But it's still a legit naval installation. I'd assume you could trust those officers as much as any other random naval NPCs, all other things considered.

1. Who might have a fleet of ships? ....
2. .... are there any talents to make you even more powerful, once you command several ships? Anything besides maxxing out Command?
3. .... what is needed for keeping several, maybe a unit of them, in orbit, and having good repair facilities? If you are a "raider admiral", or whatever, where do your ships go between raids, and get fixed, as known pirates might find official channels blocked.
4. Is there a Scintilla-like planet in the Expanse? ...
5. ... Port Wrath? ..

1. The above ideas and concepts that everyone mentioned are great. If you happen to own Lure of the Expanse, Edge of the Abyss, and a few other RT books, there are various RT's, groups, organizations, and characters that do own a ship, ships, or assets that make a marriage "contract" more enticing.

2. Other than what Quicksilver mentioned with Lore skills, there isn't much left other than ship components. Best to discuss this with your GM on what you are attempting to attain, rather than assuming it will work. Maybe he/she will create some Talents / Skills for you.

3. RAW, nothing. Fluff wise, as mentioned above, there are Pirate Haven's and Void ports in the books / GM kit.

4. There is also Svard from the GM's Kit. Grace used to be something like a hidden getaway for shady nobles, but obviously that turned south when it was secluded by warp storms. There was another planet that was well developed that is mentioned in Faith and Coin; however, a deadly virus destroyed it. As for any others, none overtly mentioned.

5. Port Wrath is an Imperial Space Station in Golgenna Reach within the Calixis Sector, controlled by the Imperial Navy, where they send Battle Fleet officers to school at within the Calixis Sector. Found that using google. I haven't seen any other sources on it though in any of the DH or RT books I own.