How do skills work on minions?

For instance, if I activate knockdown or disorient on a minion, does that effect just 1 of the minions, or as a group?

It depends. Minion groups are considered one character, so if you disorient a minion you technically disorient the minion group. Howerver, I have heard some groups making that one disoriented/knocked down minion and making it a group of 1. After the status effect has been removed, it can spend a maneuver to rejoin the group.

Considering that a combat turn is roughly one minute long, it's not that hard to imagine a Marauder disorientating a g minion group of 4–6. More than that and I might call to split the group.

-EF

I would only have the 1 minion be disoriented, but I'd still add his setback die to the group's skill checks.

Same for knockdown, but knockdown doesn't really do a whole lot, so I might simply rule that the minon doesn't get to attack (contribute to the group combat check) next turn as he spends the time staggering back to his feet.

I do the whole group. In the setting and its themes its pretty normal for a hero to knock down a whole group of nooks, or for a flurry of punches to slow down a handful of guys.

The mechanical effects should generally apply to the whole group. This is how I read the rules, it's in line with the "KISS" doctrine, and it's worked pretty well for me so far.

Narratively, it's up to the GM & players how they want to actually describe it. You knockdown a single minion, fine. You push a single minion into his buddies and they all get bowled over, fine. You hit them all individually, one after the other, knocking them down kung-fu-film style, great.

If you're the GM it works however you want it to. Use common sense, if the group of minions isn't within at least close range of one another I don't think I'd have Disorient or Knockdown effect the lot of them. Remember minion group does not equal standing next to one another.

...but knockdown doesn't really do a whole lot...

Snippet alert: I'd have to disagree with that. Tactically I think it's very useful, especially if you want to prevent the opponent from escaping. Minion groups especially have to decide after getting up whether to run to a better position; or shoot, and stand there and take another hit. Though I guess it's most useful if the players aren't all "shoot first, ask later".

...but knockdown doesn't really do a whole lot...

Snippet alert: I'd have to disagree with that. Tactically I think it's very useful, especially if you want to prevent the opponent from escaping. Minion groups especially have to decide after getting up whether to run to a better position; or shoot, and stand there and take another hit. Though I guess it's most useful if the players aren't all "shoot first, ask later".

Less off-the-cuff: it's context sensitive. Chewie picks up a 'trooper and throws him at the rest of the squad, and they fall like bowling pins; Chewie and Han make good their escape = awesome. If instead, Chewie knocks over minion(s) in a hangar firefight, the minion(s) can still shoot on the ground and upgrade the group combat check = meh.

If you're the GM it works however you want it to. Use common sense, if the group of minions isn't within at least close range of one another I don't think I'd have Disorient or Knockdown effect the lot of them. Remember minion group does not equal standing next to one another.

Yeah, but minions at distances greater than short range really have no business being in a group together targeting difficulty alone begs too many questions.

The term "Standing next to each other" doesn't really take into consideration the nature of structured play in this game. Most combat probably shouldn't involve a lot of "standing next to each other." It should involve any mixture of dodging, ducking, running, positioning, standing, crouching, bracing, gesturing... And that can all be described in one combat turn. (not to say that combatants can't ever be standing next to each other)*

Beyond that, the combat turns and the range bands (as time & distance delineations) are flexy. "Engaged" is just a mechanical state that means that two characters are close enough to "meaningfully interact" with each other (which is yet another flexy term, "meaningfully interact").

Moreover, a character need not have his feet planted firmly in one spot until such a time as he opts to use the Move maneuver. I mean, an action (being something that can take a minute or so to perform) can well involve some moving about, especially within the same range band. And there is the justification for Knockdown being applied to a group "not standing next to each other."

Common sense is all well and good, but part of common sense is to not over-complicate things. My advice remains... Keep It Simple, Sally. Or Sebastian.

*Not to imply you, 25P1, are unfamiliar with the game—far from it. I would assume you are a great GM. Just trying to do away with the potentially misleading terminology.

...but knockdown doesn't really do a whole lot...

Snippet alert: I'd have to disagree with that. Tactically I think it's very useful, especially if you want to prevent the opponent from escaping. Minion groups especially have to decide after getting up whether to run to a better position; or shoot, and stand there and take another hit. Though I guess it's most useful if the players aren't all "shoot first, ask later".

Less off-the-cuff: it's context sensitive. Chewie picks up a 'trooper and throws him at the rest of the squad, and they fall like bowling pins; Chewie and Han make good their escape = awesome. If instead, Chewie knocks over minion(s) in a hangar firefight, the minion(s) can still shoot on the ground and upgrade the group combat check = meh.

This is a good point. What would being physically knocked down do to this particular group?

Much like getting set on fire. Players and GMs can have trouble roleplaying the effects of being on fire. "Like, what, you're just gonna keep shooting at me while your flesh is being charred? Ever heard of stop, drop, and roll?"

In the same way, being knocked down by a large Wookiee can cause one to reevaluate the circumstances. Perhaps they take a turn to simply pick themselves up and lay down some cover fire while they perform a "tactical retreat."

If you're the GM it works however you want it to. Use common sense, if the group of minions isn't within at least close range of one another I don't think I'd have Disorient or Knockdown effect the lot of them. Remember minion group does not equal standing next to one another.

Per RAW, minions do not have a range requirement for how they are grouped. Per common sense and tactical training, there is no sane reason to be within 20 feet of one another if not forced by environment.

Per common sense and tactical training, there is no sane reason to be within 20 feet of one another if not forced by environment.

Which is still well within Short range, indicating "up to several meters between targets."

Per common sense and tactical training, there is no sane reason to be within 20 feet of one another if not forced by environment.

Which is still well within Short range, indicating "up to several meters between targets."

There is no rule that states minion groups need to be within any sort of range band of one another.

Allow me to re-state for the sake of infantile hair splitting, there is no sane reason to deploy within the Short range band of one another if not forced to by environment.

Allow me to re-state for the sake of infantile hair splitting, there is no sane reason to deploy within the Short range band of one another if not forced to by environment.

Cinematic fight scenes, fantasy world tactics, and relative intelligence of the mooks/commanders aside, of course.

My main point regarding the range bands was that it can make things un-simple if you spread out a minion group (and thus a potential headache for GMs and players). I do realize that there are no rules regarding thus, and nor should there be. Thank you, 25P1, for so adroitly pointing out this fact! I never intended to argue it in the first place, but rather wanted give reasons as to why not to have a single minion group so extended (point in case [getting back to the OP] effects like Knockdown, the difficulty of attack, and also things like range limits on weapons).

If anyone would like to argue the point that minion groups are simplest to run when they're within short range of each other, let's do make another thread, but I think we are doing this topic here more harm than good with this unintended rabbit trail. My apologies for raising the issue.

i would question both the cohesion of a "very" spread out group, as well as the range requirements of the weapons they are carrying.

im all for groups spreading out, it makes sense in a lot of ways, just not always in the rules of this system.

• if they minions are using short range pistols then being at medium range and still all being able to target the same enemy will not always be possible
• if the minions are at medium from each other then try to engage an enemy then some will make it into engaged, others will not always
• damage from a limited ammo weapon affecting multiple targets spread out could become tiring to explain (yet again your grenade felled a tree landing over a wide area, catching 2 minions under it)
• communicating at medium range is supposed to be roughly equivalent to talking loudly, Long requires shouting, so they need com-links to be quiet

I would love to hear you explaining some of your methods 2P51, i would like to spread some of the minions out but i find tracking and explaining skills difficult.

If you're the GM it works however you want it to. Use common sense, if the group of minions isn't within at least close range of one another I don't think I'd have Disorient or Knockdown effect the lot of them. Remember minion group does not equal standing next to one another.

What he said Same for doing damage. If someone does enough damage to kill, say, 3 minions, but the group is split up and there's only 2 minions within engaged range of one another, I would only drop 2 of them. Again, of course, it's up to the GM how he adjudicates these situations.