I was a Marine long before M:tG came out... I know all about First In Last Out.

I meant within the context of board games and such - not in the wider sense.

I think perhaps Warhammer table top had spells didn't it? Negation abilities are technically FILO right?

I mean the Monopoly effect "go to jail" (first in) and then play and resolve "get out of jail free card" means go to jail (the last out) does not happen (canceled by effects of "get out of jail free card").

I'm starting to understand LIFO possibilities in W:I and I love it

You say you nuke my guy, huh? Well I'm going to use rock lobber and lob that guy to your capital before you kill it

If I'm going to be honest, that is precisely why I dislike LIFO. I would rather you have had to make the hard decision to do it when your character was mostly safe, not until after youfind out I had a way to get rid of him.Carpe Diem and all that. Fortune favors the bold, not the person who sits back realizes they missed a chance todo something and now wants to go back and do it over. That is what LIFO feels like some times.

Eric insisted on LIFO because he wanted to be different than the other two LCG's and wanted more card interactions, but I think it came at the expense of foresight and long range planning.

I enjoy being able to LIFO a Rip Dere Heads off when something bad's about to happen to my development cards... You can't do that in a non-LIFO game, and still have Rip be as good of a card as it is...

AND YET STILL that doesn't mean I'm not planning on using this card for reasons like that. I mean really, I'd put that card in my development zone for that particular reason, and held on to Rip for that reason too. THERE's your long term planning. Just cause my opponent can't see all the pieces of the puzzle and doesn't get to know its going to happen or not, doesn't mean that there isn't long term planning!

.... Darned hijacing of my thread! This was supposed to be about our love-hate relationship with Magic the Gathering!

It's almost mind blowing every time I think of a new way to abuse LIFO

For example if the other guy is going to sacrifice his unit to gain some benefit (like from a quest) you can do an action in response and kill that guy before it's sacrificed .

Can actions be played in response to forced effects btw? I would guess that they can? And if that response would be to kill that unit with forced action triggering, is it interrupting or cancelling that the rulebook forbids? Would the effect still happen even if the unit died? Or would it just be so that there is no unit with forced action taking place anymore and that's that?

For example if the other guy is going to sacrifice his unit to gain some benefit (like from a quest) you can do an action in response and kill that guy before it's sacrificed.

Actually, you can't do this. In order to PLAY an action, all costs must be paid. So, sacrificing a card for an effect is a cost. If you target it to be destroyed, well, you'll destroy it, but its effect is on the run already.

"Once an effect has been paid for, that effect is a part
of the action chain, and the effect resolves even if the
source of the effect is removed from play."

Can actions be played in response to forced effects btw? I would guess that they can? And if that response would be to kill that unit with forced action triggering, is it interrupting or cancelling that the rulebook forbids? Would the effect still happen even if the unit died? Or would it just be so that there is no unit with forced action taking place anymore and that's that?

Forced cannot be interrupted means that noone can play anything before they fully happen. Playing an action in response means "interrupting an action". At least, this is the logical interpretation of the rules.

Forced effects are the same as the usually known as "Passive effects", which occur with no possibility to avoid them as soon as their "trigger" condition is met.

Hope it helps.

Thank you, learning something new everyday

In his first years, MTG was a very innovative and interesting game (and a affordable one). But today the game is nothing but a shadow of himself.

I quit MTG after the indestructible power got out. The designers were out of breath for the game and they chose to create stupid cards with stupids powers (this began with Urza's Saga). I was more a casual player than a competitive one (I liked thematic decks like Gobbos, Elves, Undeads...) and I really disliked competitive play (the same is true with WHI). I was tired of seeing those kids playing with the same type 2 deck because it was the last year championship world winner.

The price of cards began to be ridiculous too... 1000$ for a piece of cardboard (**** I could have an LCD screen for this price !!!)... the re-seller saw that fanatics were vulnerable and they exploited it to the end. 50$ for a dual land !!! This is an uncommon dude !!! 5$ for a rancor !!! Its a f...k.ng common !!! But when its time to sell your cards they dont want to pay more than 20% of their value (if you're lucky). The pro-value of cards is a big joke. I heard that WOTC created a new rarity (super rare)... another trick to sell more boosters than ever. I always disliked this company and their vision of marketing (they totally ruined what was D&D with the 4th edition) just because they wanted to expand games to new players they just put aside what have made those games run for many years. WOTC and re-sellers are vampires craving for your cash and this disgust me. But it seems I'm alone to think that as more and more players buy their products.

It's my opinion. Just an opinion. Play it if you like it but be careful not to get caught in their ''money-maker'' attitude.

My first ccg was marvels overpower had a billion cards but the game was bad I don't know why i played it lol

Like it (Magic the Gathering, that is).

Well, not really the true version of MtG, as I've mostly played the excellent Duels of the Planeswalkers 2012 and the original Duels of the Planeswalkers for X-Box (highly recommended), but it's close enough.

Like the balance and huge variety of MtG. Also, the flavor of the cards and the generally great content design.

Really dislike the fact that $ is so important in the paper version (not a problem in Duels, which is really reasonably priced). Also mana drought/flood can be incredibly annoying, as well as the (usually) slow pace with 1 card drawn as a norm and creatures entering the battlefield tapped - all of which WHI has neat solutions to, in my opinion.

Magic I think for quite a few card and board gamers was the "gateway drug" of choice. It was a great game till they kept adding more and more rules to the point of being lost under them all. I also think a lot of the later cards forced you to "upgrade" far too much,I realize most games do this but Magic was over the top. The cost was a big downside hehe, ever notice it was always just one more booster pack .