I always thought R2-D2 should have been a droid that gives massive PS boost. He's clearly piloting for Anakin most of the time and in trench run you bet he turned that targeting computer right back on! Even Vader (Anakin) knew who the real threat in the trench was: R2-D2; Vader specifically targets him!

Giving up the droid slot is not a fix most of us would be interested in. Some better droids would be a nice boost however.

Hes saying that because they are perhaps not the *strongest* (yet still a valid) choice for a list they are being sidelined by those seeking 'points maximum efficiency' via mathematical means for ships like the bwing.

While 'on paper' i can see the Bwing being a much better choice, i've also seen in reality xwings out perform on occasion.

X-wings are noticeably, measurably less efficient than B-wings: B-wings have the same offensive potential, and they tend to survive about one more attack. But the margin of error in that measurement is huge, because X-wing is a noisy game from a statistical perspective. So the set of all possible games played with both X-wings and B-wings naturally includes a lot of games where the X-wing outperforms the B-wings.

But if you choose just one game out of that set, it's more likely you'll pick one where the B-wings do better. That's what the argument about statistical efficiency says, and that's all it says.

The problem is when a lot of threads are 'tounry centric' and are all 'how do i beat BBBBz' or 'killer bwing list' etc etc then the pervading feel is that 'xwings are rubbish'. So they dont get picked as much by players so less players find decent combos.

If you're a tournament player looking for an edge, then most of the X-wing pilots represent about 1.5 points' worth of waste. If you have a list full of X-wings, you have about a 6-point handicap--that is, it's the equivalent of taking a 94-point list to the tournament.

If you include just one X-wing, you're in much better shape. If you pick the right X-wing with the right upgrades, you might not be wasting any points at all. But you have to think carefully about what the X-wing does that (a) makes up for the X-wing's mathematical handicap and (b) can't be done by a ship without that handicap.

(It ought to go without saying, but if you're not thinking about tournament-style lists and nothing's riding on the outcome, then you don't need to worry nearly as much about whether the X-wing is balanced against the B-wing and Headhunter.)

I dont think hes saying 'i win with xwings so you're all wrong'. I know im certainly not saying that.

I think we're both saying 'dont write them off because its popular on the forum to write them off'

Writing them off because it's popular is a mistake.

But deploying X-wings very cautiously because you've looked at the weight of the evidence, asked questions that help you understand what's going on under the hood, and decided you don't want the handicap... that's smart tournament play.

I'll pretty much always choose a bwing first but I also pretty much always choose an xwing over a second Bwing. You have to fly it well and outfit it well to match up but when you hit the sweetspot with an xwing you know it.

I'm all for some titles and modifications to differentiate and enhance the xwing:

Factory model, Mod: -1 (or -2). You may equip no other upgrades to this ship

X-1, title: Equip 1 modification at -3 cost.

Advanced Aerodynamics, Mod: You may use the ewing dial instead of the xwing dial for this ship.

Stick Ace, title: if you have no stess tokens, you may perform a boost or BR after executing a green maneuver

Torpedo Ace, title: when you fire a torpedo you may reroll 2 dice.

Double post

X wing dial sucks, even the firespray has more on its dial.

I think whit their crappy dial the best thing you can do with them is make them a 3D target for bombing scenarios

the x-wing dial is missing only the 1-turn

it has no extraneous reds and a decent amount of greens

the dial is not the problem

the x-wing dial is missing only the 1-turn

it has no extraneous reds and a decent amount of greens

the dial is not the problem

Heck, R2 on an X-Wing is one of the best PTL dials in the game! But there's very little point in a PTL X-Wing. Which is a big part of the problem. The least expensive R2 PTL X-Wing is Jek Porkins at 30 points. That's a hilarious misuse of his pilot ability, and all it let's you do is TL + Focus. 8 greens, and no reason to bother with PTL. You could slap an engine upgrade on there for even more points, but then you've just got an even bigger target on the back of a 5hp/2 green dice ship.

One of the reasons I favor giving the X-Wing and E-Wing a cheap (0-2 points) boost action via a title is to make them both a bit more nimble, and a bit tankier via Autothrusters. I'm not in love with the idea, as it seems to take a tiny bit of identity from other ships, but it's something I've thought about.

The other way to do it would be a pair of titles. One that gave a boost for 2 points, and one that gave 2 hull for 2-3 points. So you have a build option of tanky _or_ nimble.

Or maybe something really offbeat, like a title that allows X-Wings and E-Wings to convert 1 defensive blank against range 2-3 shots into an evade. Now Biggs is super relevant, Luke is a monster, and Ehatn is going to evade some of that fire that comes along with being a support ship.

Another thought I've had:

An X-Wing/E-Wing card that went into the Torpedo slot and gave a 3 point rebate on any upgrade.

Another, identically named card that went into the droid slot.

Both cards would be "limited", so you could have one or the other, but not both. In that way, there is room for a good title, good torpedo, good modification, and good droid... But the odds are that no one is going to run all 4. So let people figure out what they weren't going to use anyway, and neatly avoid the 2 point tax problem of the Chardaan Refit.

Come to think on it: if FFG made a "Chardaan Refit" Title card for the A-Wing, and made it Limited, it would help get around the missile tax as well. You'd have to forgoe an EPT or two on ships with that title, but that's a decision to make...

I personally think a 'yavin refit' to the xwng that reduced its points and took away its targetting (lock) computer could work....

In all seriousness.

A chardan style refit is a good way to reduce the price, unless newer fixes make torps more viable.

If say there was a 'remove torps slot' 'escape from hoth' refit that took out the bulky tubes and allowed the lighter xwing to barrel roll.... would that work?

would it also need to reduce cost?

I mean an xwing two points cheaper that could barrel roll (like they do in he movies) at the expense of not having the 'option' of something you never take anyway would be good yeah? Or just *too* good.

Modifcation:

0 pts

E-wing Only

Streamlined

Squad Point Cost is reduced by 2 points and all banks count as green.

This fixes the major issue with the e-wing of being over-costed and since it requires a modification slot, Corran and Ethan need to make a decision as to weather they want EI or this.

Title:

1 pts

T65C1

X-wing Only

Add +1 hull to your ship. You cannot take a Hull upgrade modification. Inaddition subtract 2 squad points from all non unique astromech droids (minimum of 0)

(For those who think this is too good: In addition all 3 hard maneuvers count as red)

This adds the Hull that everyone is talking about, sure it's 1 point, but since hull cost 3 it's 2 points cheaper. This fix also fixes the X-wing dial, if you take an r2 for free

1pt-0 hull or 1-2pt EU would probably do it. Hopefully they figure out what to do to make something similar happen.

The fix needs to be in the form of an Astromech. Rebels need decent astromechs besides R3-A2 and R2-D2. We've seen FFG design some good ones for Scum.

A decent astromech could address the issues with Y-Wings, E-Wings, and X-wings.

The fix needs to be in the form of an Astromech. Rebels need decent astromechs besides R3-A2 and R2-D2. We've seen FFG design some good ones for Scum.

A decent astromech could address the issues with Y-Wings, E-Wings, and X-wings.

it really doesn't need to

R3-A2, R2-D2, R5-P9, R7 astro, R2 astro, and even R4-D6 all have their selective utilities on the useful X/Y/E pilots

none of them address the base issues with any of the ships (e-wing generics being overpriced, Y-wing named pilots lacking ept and no that sh*tty r2-d w.e doesn't count, X-wings being so rigid and so inefficient that they become jousters that can't joust)

Maybe the E-Wing could be sorted via the creation of some new pilots, who are just costed a little cheaper. It might mean that some of the current ones won't see tournament use, but that won't change how it already is. Horn would still be a tempting option.

For me the Y-Wing is okay, cheap enough and has a fair few options now. A couple more rebel pilots would be nice though.

The X-Wing just needs a small upgrade. X-Wing Engine upgrade (2 or 3 points instead of the normal 4). Rogue Squadron Pilot - Gives the barrel role action and 2 extra PS OR 1 extra EPT (Named pilots only, maybe 3 or 4 points for this one).

That way it isn't a hugely overpowered change, but just gives it so many different options.

Y wings and e wings are bad? That's my whole regional list!

Update: Top 8 at Team Covenant

congratulations

All we need is some more pilot options for the E-wing and Y-wing as well as some more astromechs and torpedo options.

A big part of why the B-wing is picked over the Y-Wing is that it does all the same stuff but better. It is tank but most of it's HP is in shields where crits don't matter so much. It has two torpedo slots and some amazing options for what to do with them while the Y-wing only gets the same in scum. It gets a cannon with some tight maneuvering which is preferable to a turret.

For the Y-wing to be a more appealing choice it needs options which distinguish itself from the B-wing and makes it more specialized. Turrets are nice, but they aren't as strong as cannons and the two torpedo slots look a lot better on Nera.

I want Gate in the game

He is the best Astro (yes better than R2!)

there is something nice for Horton in wave 7

from what we saw o a leaked spanish teaser, the k-wing's coming with Double Blaster Turrets

Range: 2-3, 3 red dice, fires twice, on hit cancel all dice results and deal 1 damage.

Slap that on Horton, give him r4-d6. He'll take four shots guaranteed from brobots and other HLCS and still have room for re-rolls

there is something nice for Horton in wave 7

from what we saw o a leaked spanish teaser, the k-wing's coming with Double Blaster Turrets

Range: 2-3, 3 red dice, fires twice, on hit cancel all dice results and deal 1 damage.

Slap that on Horton, give him r4-d6. He'll take four shots guaranteed from brobots and other HLCS and still have room for re-rolls

So the Twin Laser turret fires twice with 3 attack, but cancels it's roll on a hit and only does 1 damage? So it can only do 2 damage then in a single combat phase?

For the Y-wing to be a more appealing choice it needs options which distinguish itself from the B-wing and makes it more specialized. Turrets are nice, but they aren't as strong as cannons and the two torpedo slots look a lot better on Nera.

Then you have 2 (or 3 with TLT) attacks with only small range restrictions which potentially output better damage than an HLC. TLT in particular gets better with Horton's ability (probably one of the few things that does).

Plus a not horrible dial which can be good with R2 and 8HP, with the option of customising your ship, adding regen, offensive or defensive buffs with the R2 slot. And you can add bombs.

That's pretty different from the B don't you think?

there is something nice for Horton in wave 7

from what we saw o a leaked spanish teaser, the k-wing's coming with Double Blaster Turrets

Range: 2-3, 3 red dice, fires twice, on hit cancel all dice results and deal 1 damage.

Slap that on Horton, give him r4-d6. He'll take four shots guaranteed from brobots and other HLCS and still have room for re-rolls

So the Twin Laser turret fires twice with 3 attack, but cancels it's roll on a hit and only does 1 damage? So it can only do 2 damage then in a single combat phase?

yup

you fire out as much damage as you're taking, one on one

Y wings and e wings are bad? That's my whole regional list!

Update: Top 8 at Team Covenant

Nice! What is your list?

Corran r2d2 sensors ptl engine

Gold w/title ion r3a2

Gold w/title ion and a prox mine

I hadn't really played since mid-March. I think with practice I would have done quite a bit better. Practice keeps you from doing bone-headed things like driving your other y wing over a prox mine.

one warning about this list. Your opponents end up rolling a LOT of unmodified dice. It's frustrating. Don't do it to your friends.

Sensors + ptl + r2d2 is so **** fun

I ran it on eathn who managed to win a slugging match with a full health chiri and it's about the only small ship than can!

Did corran ever have to go mano a mano with a fattie ?

Yes. I am going to write up that match because it was glorious.

Spoiler alert: have you ever seen double-droid fat Han go from 5 hull 1 shield to dead in the last turn of shooting? I have.

Sounds like someone got double-tapped

Congrats on your success. Must've been a great experience