I'm sure we've all seen the b wing dominate the board when it comes to small rebel ships. I hardly ever see the x and e wings and do face the occasional y wings. One other thing that these three ships have in common is the droid slot. So I propose an easy solution to rebalance these ships with the b wing is to introduce a droid with a negative points cost and a possible buff.

For example, the droid costs -1 point and increases PS by +1. This makes a rookie pilot two points cheaper than a blue b wing and gives one additional PS. From a fluff perspective this doesn't have to be a droid, could be removal of droid space on the ship which reduces weight and aerodynamics and therefore increases PS.

Any thoughts on this? Should the cost decrease be more drastic or the buff better?

Two Words:

Opportunity Cost.

I think that putting a tax on astromech's is a bad plan, as they are very useful.

Butba free Astromech that boosts pilot skill could be good. O points VI. Let VI Wedge become the first ship to shoot before a Roarkified ship. It'd be fun.

Just play with them.

It's not a bad idea I don't know if it _solves_ the problem, but it doesn't make it worse. I don't like most of the droid slot ideas, as they tend to lock that one specific droid into the slot. But the low PS ships really would prefer a price reduction to any other fix, so this is an interesting step.

For wedge or Luke, I'd like to see something more drastic that doesn't involve the droid slot, though. They really do want to pair with R2 or R2D2.

Giving up the astromech is the balancing feature. Like missiles on the a wing was. It may not benefit the named pilots but it would bring the unnamed pilots closer in line with the z95s. The PS boost would also help the unnamed e wing pilots, who in theory should be beefy arc dodgers.

how to bring them back, in respective order

Luke Skywalker (either V.I + R3-A2 + EU or Predator/LW + R2-D2/R5-p9),

Corran Horn (V.I/Ptl, FCS, r2-d2),

and Gold Squadron Pilot (ict + r3-a2, ict + title + r2 astro, auto-blaster + r2 astro)

job done

Also, not sure if he's worth it, but I have a soft spot for E'athn. With sensors, ptl, and r2-d2 he's hellishly expensive but holy ****

let's just say, it's difficult to find small ships that can 1v1 a full health decimator and come out on top.

also, the shenanigans with swarm/v.i cracken are just legendary

Y wings and e wings are bad? That's my whole regional list!

X wings do need help though.

And generic E wings.

And named y wings.

Give them a munitions boost thru that astromech spot that other bombers can't carry. Gotta keep them cheap since you still have to set up your target locks, range, arc, etc not to mention that you rarely get more than one shot. These are just a few of many possibilities.

Generic Astromech that does one of these:

-When attacking with a Torpedo secondary weapon, roll 2 additional attack dice.

1pt

-When attacking with a Torpedo secondary weapon, Add 2 hits to your roll.

2pts

-When attacking with a Torpedo secondary weapon, change all blanks to hits.

2pts

*R6-B4 (the name doesn't matter really but 'Before' fits this guy)

Astromech

ACTION: Perform one Torpedo Secondary Weapon attack. (Lets you fire during activation phase before the high PS ships have moved or acted. Gives X's, Y's and E's a double tap AND gives Corran a tripple tap!)

2pts

*R3-Y0 (pronounced why naught)

When performing a Torpedo Secondary Weapon attack, you may ignore all range and arc restrictions. (If you got that target lock on Fel just before he pulled the 4 straight, boost, barrel roll, stress, focus, he still takes your APT's in the teeth)

4pts.

Since Y-Wings are going to love these as much as X's, follow those up with the Rogue squadron, X-Wing only Title that almost has to be coming in an aces pack.

honestly, the only ship in need of an honest fix is the X-wing. While the E-wing is horridly overpriced, it's much better suited to surviving against the current onslaught of HLCs and fatties, and the Y is going to be getting fun new toys in Wave 7 (new bombs, torps, munis, and a new turret ) when its estranged cousin, Kevin, comes to visit

Just don't follow the internet forum hive minds. X-Wings are fine and likely have help on the way. You can number crunch all day but getting them on the map and flying them well will still get you results If the extra agility die hits two or three times you are just as tough as the B-Wing with a "better" stock dial. You can build X-Wings tanky with Tarn or Luke, hit hard, or change the way the game is played with Biggs. Their generic pilots are not that amazing though. Y-Wings are already great with the BTL title. The poor E-Wing is too expensive other than crazy pilot ability Corran Horn. Maybe Rebel Aces 3 or 4 or whatever will give them a discount card.

Just because everyone says B-Wings are good, X-Wings are bad, their numbers are bad, if you play them you are bad and hate babies doesn't make it so. My personal play style has given me more luck with X-Wings than B-Wings. People love A-Wings around here as well, but my personal experience is that I should just throw them against a wall at the beginning of the game because they never work for me. You can look at numbers and say "this ship is 7% more efficient blah blah" but good luck if you accidently fly it into an asteroid at the wrong time. Practice with whatever ships you want to play. I would rather have an ok list that I am good at flying than a championship smash everyone list that I can't fly for dog poo.

If you are going to a championship tournament bring whatever neck breaking list you want. All I know is when I play my friends they don't enjoy flying against Fat Hans and Whispers all the live long day.

I rather like it. I don't see a big opportunity cost. I'm not going to beef up an X-Wing too much because they seem to pop pretty easy. A rookie isn't getting a droid because I'm trying to get him cheap anyways, so 2 points below a blue seems decent.

This would give you some possibilities

Rookie - 20 pts

Wedge (at PS 10) - 28 points, 32 with engine...That would make him top tier again maybe. Gives him the maneuver boost X-Wing needs, plus he is going after everyone except Han/Vader with VI. Slap VI on him and go to PS12!

Wes can now do his thing at 28 points and PS9, and he just got an EPT slot if you

Biggs, who you aren't going to load up anyways just got a point cheaper.

Jek- doesn't help. He needs the droid to do his shenanigans.

Tarn - doesn't help, arguably doesn't need it.

Luke - iffy. He likes R2D2, but a 29 point Lone Wolf Luke seems alright.

Hobbie - Nope.

Garven - not bad. A point cheaper and passes his focus at PS7.

Generic E's - doesn't hurt. Nobody is using them, let alone their droid slots.

Etahn - why not? I usually saw him without a droid anyways

Corran - won't use it and doesn't need it.

Overall, it helps some. The bump in PS and a point reduction both help adding engine, and X-Wings really need movement adjustment bad. Does leave some pilots high and dry though, and it probably isn't help enough for generic E-Wings.

I still think I'd rather see a title that gives a free mod and a couple new mods, but this wouldn't be so bad.

X-WING ACE 0 points title

Named pilots who were featured in the original trilogy (no silly EU fluff allowed) can use a combination of additional red and green dice (over the course of a game) equal to their pilot skill.

Just don't follow the internet forum hive minds. X-Wings are fine and likely have help on the way. You can number crunch all day but getting them on the map and flying them well will still get you results If the extra agility die hits two or three times you are just as tough as the B-Wing with a "better" stock dial.

And I'll never buy that the X-Wing dial is any better in practice, even if it has paper advantages. It looks better, but it has extra maneuvers you rarely need, lacks a hard 1, and has no post-movement adjustment. Only other ships with no post-maneuver adjustment have access to turrets/aux arcs or are incredibly cheap for their stats (Z-95, Lambda).

Just because a lot of people happen to see the same thing sitting right in front of them, it doesn't make it a "hive mind". Instead, it might just be obvious.

I will give you that the generic B-Wing is better than a Rookie. However the named pilot abilities are great among X-Wings. The only named B I see is Keyan (who is great). The abilities of some of the named X-Wings make them just as durable as their named B-Wing counterparts. The X-Wing dial does have an advantage generally. There are no such things are maneuvers you don't need. More moves gives you greater unpredictability. Being able to make some 3 speed moves without stressing is nothing but a good thing. Less chances at getting stress means less predictable "1 greens" afterwards.

I will give you that the generic B-Wing is better than a Rookie. However the named pilot abilities are great among X-Wings. The only named B I see is Keyan (who is great). The abilities of some of the named X-Wings make them just as durable as their named B-Wing counterparts. The X-Wing dial does have an advantage generally. There are no such things are maneuvers you don't need. More moves gives you greater unpredictability. Being able to make some 3 speed moves without stressing is nothing but a good thing. Less chances at getting stress means less predictable "1 greens" afterwards.

I'll concede so much as to say that there are some named pilots that are have some use.

I wasn't claiming it isn't nice to have the extra maneuvers. But if I have to choose between a 1 hard and barrel rolls, or some 3 speed maneuvers, I'll take the former without any hesitation.

Even if I buy that X-E-Y Wings need a buff, I don't think an astromech is the way to do it; their astromech slot is already part of what sets them apart from B-Wings. If it's gonna be a patch of some sort, make it a title.

The problem is that all the other ships, except the basic Tie, came later and the game designers had to give those ships some action or upgrade that no other ship had previously. If they hadn't, who would want to add ships to their fleet when they already had the best ones? So it's time the X gets something no other ship has. FFG has already done some point modifing but they seem to try to never use the same "fix" twice. I think I would like to see something like these.

After your top gun takes a shot, the defender is a sitting duck for everyone else.

Rogue Squadron

Title, X-Wing only, cost 0pts.

When you aquire a target lock, assign the targeted ship one stress token.

Cannot equip this card if your pilot skill is 2 or lower.

Notice that this puts stress on a ship after the planning phase but during the activation phase, possibly before it has revealed its maneuver. He better hope he picked a green if he wants to use any actions this turn.

Just don't follow the internet forum hive minds. X-Wings are fine and likely have help on the way. You can number crunch all day but getting them on the map and flying them well will still get you results If the extra agility die hits two or three times you are just as tough as the B-Wing with a "better" stock dial. You can build X-Wings tanky with Tarn or Luke, hit hard, or change the way the game is played with Biggs. Their generic pilots are not that amazing though. Y-Wings are already great with the BTL title. The poor E-Wing is too expensive other than crazy pilot ability Corran Horn. Maybe Rebel Aces 3 or 4 or whatever will give them a discount card.

Just because everyone says B-Wings are good, X-Wings are bad, their numbers are bad, if you play them you are bad and hate babies doesn't make it so. My personal play style has given me more luck with X-Wings than B-Wings. People love A-Wings around here as well, but my personal experience is that I should just throw them against a wall at the beginning of the game because they never work for me. You can look at numbers and say "this ship is 7% more efficient blah blah" but good luck if you accidently fly it into an asteroid at the wrong time. Practice with whatever ships you want to play. I would rather have an ok list that I am good at flying than a championship smash everyone list that I can't fly for dog poo.

If you are going to a championship tournament bring whatever neck breaking list you want. All I know is when I play my friends they don't enjoy flying against Fat Hans and Whispers all the live long day.

So you are winning some games with X-Wings against other non-competitive lists or really bad players with good lists. You da Man!

Then you say people are noobs that don't know how to play because they can't make the X-Wing perform. Which actually includes a major part of the competitive X-Wing players out there... Well thanks for that...

And while you're already at it, you basically give the middle finger to our mathwingers and their dark magic of statistics and formulas!

Well done, Sir!

Even if I buy that X-E-Y Wings need a buff, I don't think an astromech is the way to do it; their astromech slot is already part of what sets them apart from B-Wings. If it's gonna be a patch of some sort, make it a title.

I do say that X-Wing and E-Wing need a buff. And yes that includes all the naned an non-named pilots, even Luke, Tarn, Biggs and Corran.

It now depends on what you do with the fix... If you make a plain cost reduction you would rather buff the generics, and enable a bit better of equipment to the named pilots. If you couple amobility or defense increase with a very small cost of 1-2 points you would rather buff the named pilots. That's up to FFG i think.

I actually think that BTL-A4 made the Y-Wing come pretty much on par with the B-Wing. I was very sceptical, but after playing Warthog lists for a while i have to say they are perhaps not the top of the meta, but viable and if your red dice are hot they are a real force to be reckoned with! Anyway if i have 23-25 points in a list that need to be filled, the answer is not automatically another B-Wing, i often also opt for a Warthog nowadays instead, and that's a good sign. (Sadly i won't ever fill tge squad with an X-Wing however...

But the fix can not come from an astromech because A) the X-Wing needs the slot direly to specialize and distinguish from the other ships, and B) a mandatory droid would be a very very bad thing barring all the other droids out!

Just play with them.

It really is this simple.

Too many people are so blinded by "mathwing" and the "competitive meta" and end up refusing to play perfectly useful ships because "they're not the optimum choice".

You know what? To hell with the optimum choice. This is a game. A balanced, fun, enjoyable game. If you're so shallow minded as to automatically rule out playing certain ships because someone you've never met says on an internet forum that they're fractionally less "efficient" than certain other ships, that's on you, not FFG.

TL;DR? Play with what you want to play with, not what someone says you should. You might find yourself pleasantly surprised.

I have to agree with FTS Gecko

I've won games with X and Y wings against whisper (and support) against my friend Rob who wins local store tourneys (so he cant be that bad a player if he wins the local one and the one in the next city?)

I won by having versatile ships and spreading my arcs.

Also Xwings really seem to come into their own outside of the very limiting 100 point 6 rock deathmatch format.

In out recent epic game the X wings were doing *really* well throughout the game.

(then again so were the bombers which is another ship everyone will tell you is rubbish)

Just play with them.

It really is this simple.

Too many people are so blinded by "mathwing" and the "competitive meta" and end up refusing to play perfectly useful ships because "they're not the optimum choice".

You know what? To hell with the optimum choice. This is a game. A balanced, fun, enjoyable game. If you're so shallow minded as to automatically rule out playing certain ships because someone you've never met says on an internet forum that they're fractionally less "efficient" than certain other ships, that's on you, not FFG.

TL;DR? Play with what you want to play with, not what someone says you should. You might find yourself pleasantly surprised.

So if I have played with them and still think they suck? Am I then allowed to say so, or will you blokes still be around assuming things about people you don't know, judging others, and generally trying to shout down any complaints about how they play? Seriously - how can your baseline assumption be that you are the only person who flies X-Wings and everyone else just listens to strangers on the internet?

Hes not really saying that though is he.

Hes saying that because they are perhaps not the *strongest* (yet still a valid) choice for a list they are being sidelined by those seeking 'points maximum efficiency' via mathematical means for ships like the bwing.

While 'on paper' i can see the Bwing being a much better choice, i've also seen in reality xwings out perform on occasion.

The problem is when a lot of threads are 'tounry centric' and are all 'how do i beat BBBBz' or 'killer bwing list' etc etc then the pervading feel is that 'xwings are rubbish'. So they dont get picked as much by players so less players find decent combos.

I dont think hes saying 'i win with xwings so you're all wrong'. I know im certainly not saying that.

I think we're both saying 'dont write them off because its popular on the forum to write them off'

Just play with them.

It really is this simple.

Too many people are so blinded by "mathwing" and the "competitive meta" and end up refusing to play perfectly useful ships because "they're not the optimum choice".

You know what? To hell with the optimum choice. This is a game. A balanced, fun, enjoyable game. If you're so shallow minded as to automatically rule out playing certain ships because someone you've never met says on an internet forum that they're fractionally less "efficient" than certain other ships, that's on you, not FFG.

TL;DR? Play with what you want to play with, not what someone says you should. You might find yourself pleasantly surprised.

If getting good with them is as simple as "Just play them" shouldn't that same person playing ships that are better in every way simply be more competitive?