What's the difference between a weapon having Pierce 1 vs. +1 damage.

I mean, I know what "Pierce" does (for each rank of Pierce, ignore 1 soak to target), but compare these 2 weapons...

Weapon 1: Damage 1, Pierce 1

&

Weapon 2: Damage 2

vs. Target 1 with 3 soak

If both weapons rolled 2 successes against the target they would each do 1 damage, right?

Scenario 2(same weapons, different target): Target 2 with 9 soak

If both weapons rolled 2 successes against target 2 they would each do 0 damage, or would weapon 1 do 1 damage?

So I guess a side question is: Does Pierce reduce the targets soak, or ignore a certain amount like scenario 2?

(My first post here!)

It matters when the target's soak is lower than the weapon's pierce. Effectively, the excess pierce is ignored. So +1 damage would be superior to +1 pierce in this instance.

For example.

I have an air rifle that is pierce 4 and 5 damage vs a grunt with soak 3. I roll 2 successes.

With the +1 damage method, I would have effectively dealt 8 wounds. (5 base + 4 pierce + 2 success - 3 soak)

With pierce as written, I deal 7 wounds. ( 5 base + 2 successes - 0 soak)

The "Pierce" quality refers to how much Soak you ignore with your attack, not additional damage. So a Pierce 1 weapon ignores 1 point of Soak; it doesn't add an additional damage to your attack.

For example, you fire a Damage 6, Pierce 1 weapon at a stormtrooper with 5 Soak. You roll three successes, meaning you do 9 damage. Ordinarily, the trooper would soak 5 of that, leaving you with 4 damage penetrating. However, the Pierce 1 quality means that his soak counts as 4 instead of 5, so 5 points of damage get through.

In other words, it's the difference between a live and healthy enemy and a dead and defeated one.

Except in the rare cases of pierce exceeding soak or the when the target has something like the cortosis quality there is not much of a difference. Pierce allows more damage through and is one way to increase damage output. It is similar but not the same to an overall damage increase. A BAM fully modded out can increase damage output by 5 points given the right circumstances. It more or less is a situational increase to damage output. Generally it will apply but there may be some some situations where it does not.

Pierce lets you to ignore that much soak. It isn't uncommon, from what I have heard and read, for enemies to have at least 2 soak. That means Pierce 2 weapons, of which there isn't that many, are highly valued. There's a chart someone made of the five or eight deadliest weapons in the game. Of those, one of them has the Pierce 2 quality. It's expensive as all get out, but when you dealing, in essence, two extra damage against a target.

That being said, Pierce is one of those qualities that is a double edge sword if you have too much of it. By my guess, anything over 4 that isn't rated for vehicles (being mounted on or used against) should be put off to the side unless there's has been an above average number of enemies wearing good body armor. In that case, you and the group may want to reevaluate your career choices.

Also, keep an eye out for accurate weapons. They add a number of hits equal to their rating, I believe.

Also, keep an eye out for accurate weapons. They add a number of hits equal to their rating, I believe.

Accurate adds boost dice equal to their rating, not hits.

so long as your weapons pierce rating is lower than the targets soak then they have the same net effect on the damage done.

but if your weapons pierce rating is higher than the targets soak then the extra pierce is wasted.

for this reason if you have the choice between +1 pierce and +1 damage, for the same cost (free if your using jury rigged), then go with the +1 damage as it will always have an effect on the damage dealt no matter the soak of the target.

so long as your weapons pierce rating is lower than the targets soak then they have the same net effect on the damage done.

but if your weapons pierce rating is higher than the targets soak then the extra pierce is wasted.

for this reason if you have the choice between +1 pierce and +1 damage, for the same cost (free if your using jury rigged), then go with the +1 damage as it will always have an effect on the damage dealt no matter the soak of the target.

This.

It should also be mentioned that Pierce's value goes down the more you have, as the likelihood of having more than the target's soak goes up. Having 2 Pierce is clearly better than 1, but 15 Pierce isn't much better than 9.

It also has no effect on vehicles. So 5 Damage will get you half-way to a Hull Trauma point, whereas 5 Pierce gets you nothing.

What's the difference between a weapon having Pierce 1 vs. +1 damage.

As others have pointed out, pierce reaches its limits as you get more of it, unlike +Damage. Pierce is a great thing to throw on an NPCs weapons to help be a challenge to the party's tank without making that same weapon a Total Party Kill scenario should the tank go down. For example, hitting a party who's soaks vary from 3 to 9, someone with Pierce 6 will only do 3 extra damage against the low soak PCs, but 6 extra against the tank (like a Marauder). If the weapon was just +6 damage, then it would wipe out the low soak characters much more easily as it would do 6 extra damage per hit, not 3. Increase Pierce to 9, and it still only does 3 extra damage to the lower soak characters. Increase to +9 damage and now it is guaranteed to really put the kibosh on the party.

Once you get higher in XP and earn some credits, you will find that having More Pierce is better in the long run, because either GMs building games or the premade stuff for higher "levels" NPCs will have Defense. So in the early stages having More Damage is Good because most bad guys do NOT have defense, but as you rank, Pierce is GOOD!

For me its BOTH!

Hope this helps

Once you get higher in XP and earn some credits, you will find that having More Pierce is better in the long run, because either GMs building games or the premade stuff for higher "levels" NPCs will have Defense. So in the early stages having More Damage is Good because most bad guys do NOT have defense, but as you rank, Pierce is GOOD!

For me its BOTH!

Hope this helps

No it didn't help because you're wrong. Pierce reduces soak , not defense.

+1 damage is better than +1 Pierce, particularly when it comes to things like Cortosis which ignore Pierce/Breach, or Parry/Reflect (talents from Force and Destiny that reduce base damage).

What's the difference between a weapon having Pierce 1 vs. +1 damage.

As others have pointed out, pierce reaches its limits as you get more of it, unlike +Damage. Pierce is a great thing to throw on an NPCs weapons to help be a challenge to the party's tank without making that same weapon a Total Party Kill scenario should the tank go down. For example, hitting a party who's soaks vary from 3 to 9, someone with Pierce 6 will only do 3 extra damage against the low soak PCs, but 6 extra against the tank (like a Marauder). If the weapon was just +6 damage, then it would wipe out the low soak characters much more easily as it would do 6 extra damage per hit, not 3. Increase Pierce to 9, and it still only does 3 extra damage to the lower soak characters. Increase to +9 damage and now it is guaranteed to really put the kibosh on the party.

For the GM, pierce is really a huge boon to help make fights more even and "protect" the low soak characters. Unfortunately, my players all bought Cortosis weave for their armors, so I'm kinda busted for that

Thanks Kallabecca, I know have another tool to have my characters face more even fights... Now I just have to strip them of their Cortosis armors mouhahahahah !!!

+1 damage is better than +1 Pierce, particularly when it comes to things like Cortosis which ignore Pierce/Breach, or Parry/Reflect (talents from Force and Destiny that reduce base damage).

Yeah +1 damage is better then +1 Pierce, but the times when the difference is gonna be game changing are gonna be rare.

Like when you hit a jedi with Parry and he reduces the damage to 0 and you can't get that crit you wanted Or when you're gonna hit a soak 2 minion with a Pierce 5 weapon...

Soak is usually 3 or higher for most opponents (5 for Stormtroopers), and Cortosis is really rare, so are jedis. There are only 1 weapon with Pierce 4 and 2 weapons with Pierce 5, the rest have 3 or less. So I guess that for those weapons (Pierce 3 and under), Pierce has the same value as +1 damage. For the 3 exceptions, it's more situationnal, but they'll usually get their fair share of optimum fights.

Most people will look at weapons and directly convert Pierce to weapon damage to compare weapons and choose the best one. I think it's harder to judge Accurate vs Pierce... but that's for another topic

Once you get higher in XP and earn some credits, you will find that having More Pierce is better in the long run, because either GMs building games or the premade stuff for higher "levels" NPCs will have Defense. So in the early stages having More Damage is Good because most bad guys do NOT have defense, but as you rank, Pierce is GOOD!

For me its BOTH!

Hope this helps

No it didn't help because you're wrong. Pierce reduces soak , not defense.

Why you have to be technical??!! I mean I don't mess w/ your technicalities, I mean why you have to w/ mine??!!!

The argument is still valid though just insert Soak for Defense.

Once you get higher in XP and earn some credits, you will find that having More Pierce is better in the long run, because either GMs building games or the premade stuff for higher "levels" NPCs will have Defense. So in the early stages having More Damage is Good because most bad guys do NOT have defense, but as you rank, Pierce is GOOD!

For me its BOTH!

Hope this helps

No it didn't help because you're wrong. Pierce reduces soak , not defense.

Why you have to be technical??!! I mean I don't mess w/ your technicalities, I mean why you have to w/ mine??!!!

The argument is still valid though just insert Soak for Defense.

No it's not. You're wrong.

Let's take an example high-soak target:

For soak 9, a 10 base damage weapon would deal 1 damage (10-9), a 9D 1 pierce weapon would deal 1 damage (9 - [9-1]), a 5D/5P weapon would deal 1 damage (5 -[9-5]).

For soak 10, neither will deal any damage (10-10, 9-[10-1], 5-[10-5]).

At best, 1 point of pierce is equivalent to 1 point of damage. There is no situation where it is better.

No it's not. You're wrong.

Let's take an example high-soak target:

For soak 9, a 10 base damage weapon would deal 1 damage (10-9), a 9D 1 pierce weapon would deal 1 damage (9 - [9-1]), a 5D/5P weapon would deal 1 damage (5 -[9-5]).

For soak 10, neither will deal any damage (10-10, 9-[10-1], 5-[10-5]).

At best, 1 point of pierce is equivalent to 1 point of damage. There is no situation where it is better.

Just curious, what enemies have 9 or 10 soak? The ones I'm thinking of are the big bad guys/critters, which shouldn't be common in any campaign.

Like you said, Pierce 1 is the equivalent of 1 damage.

From what others have said, it is great for GMs to have since otherwise it would increase the chances of TPKs or taking out weaker characters.

Personally, one question that comes to mind is the look of the weapons hat have been modified. That might be a deeper discussion, but it does bear being asked, especially when being in the more "civilized" locations.