Are you really up against Ten Numb so often that this is a problem?

Its not the point.

Its about changing core mechanics to buff an upgrade or a pilot.

I object to that on a games design level.

You mean like allowing a certain turret ship the ability to fly over asteroids without consequence?

I still read that differently, perhaps incorrectly so but it seemed most people i play against read it the way i do in that it was an 'evade' that wasnst an 'change of a die to evade'

Fair play if i've got it wrong.

It's not a "change of a die to an evade". It's the "addition of a die with an evade result".

You can still roll 3 evades and add a 4th with an evade token.

Are you really up against Ten Numb so often that this is a problem?

Its not the point.

Its about changing core mechanics to buff an upgrade or a pilot.

I object to that on a games design level.

*cough* heldrake *cough*

I can honestly say this has never negativity impacted any game i played since it happened, ten numb was crap before this change he's still crap after it.

I have always thought of it as a dice result: the token just allows you to add 1 evade result to your dice roll. I think thats how its phrased in the rulebook anyhow. Dont have it in front of me, so could be mistaken.

That's always how it's been presented. Look at the original FFG tutorials, and the Evade token was always added to the dice roll in order to cancel a hit result.

I don't understand why this is an issue.

Jacob

I played Ten w/ VI and Mango last night. He's pretty nasty in certain situations. Had a IG-2000 w/ ATs at range 3 through a rock with 1 hit point left. Normally with 4 evade dice plus ATs, the IG would have made it out alive. Nope Ten Numb says you dead.

Because a lot of people played it as an evade you got, so it could still block autoblaster. Not it's clarified that it does not, which makes those hits unstopable. I too think it's annoying to have autohits, that can in no way be cancelled. While it is true, the situation doesn't come by that often, the new y-wing with all upgrades does say hello, and really destroys a lot of autothruster/stealth device/ptl focuse evade combo's, like my favorite interceptor build. Especially ships that are quite expansive, but have few hull points are vulnerable here.

on a related note can one use accuracy corrector with mangler with Numbs ability? or is that considered modifying the dice??

on a related note can one use accuracy corrector with mangler with Numbs ability? or is that considered modifying the dice??

It is considered modifying the dice, so no crit with AC.

on a related note can one use accuracy corrector with mangler with Numbs ability? or is that considered modifying the dice??

It is considered modifying the dice, so no crit with AC.

that sucks.. but i figured that was the case..

Still bad then, so fundamental change in the core mechanics to make one weapon better.

This is the first time since i started playing this game a year or so ago when i thinkk FFG have made a truly appalling decision.

I still read that differently, perhaps incorrectly so but it seemed most people i play against read it the way i do in that it was an 'evade' that wasnst an 'change of a die to evade'

Fair play if i've got it wrong.

There was no functional distinction between "results from evade tokens" and "results from dice" until Autoblaster and Ten were released. Such a distinction doesn't really make sense from the perspective of the game's infrastructure--and if you rewind these forums back to just before Wave 3 was released, you can find me arguing that evade tokens couldn't be used to dodge Autoblaster for just that reason.

Then they officially introduced the distinction via FAQ, which I don't think was intended to affect anything except Ten and Autoblaster. But introducing a difference between dice results and other things that work just like dice results but explicitly aren't dice results... that has some interesting side effects. Just as one example, look at Accuracy Corrector + Ion Cannon.

I attack you with my ions, and we both roll dice as normal--say I get [kaboom] [boom] [blank], and use my Accuracy Corrector to cancel my dice results and add 2 [boom] results. Your TIE fighter gets [evade] [blank] [blank]. We compare dice and I'm left with one uncanceled [boom] result, so the attack hits; Ion Cannon says your TIE fighter takes 1 damage and we cancel all dice results.

But because we're playing in a universe where there are things that are dice results and other things that work just like dice results but aren't, the Ion Cannon doesn't cancel the [boom] results from the Accuracy Corrector. So when we move on to the Deal Damage step, you take 1 more damage due to my uncanceled [boom] result.

What fun!

***

And in addition to more upgrades being released that play around with the "add results" language, the designers realized that the power level of Autoblaster and Ten Numb wasn't high enough to justify warping the game's framework. So they reverted the change, and now we're back in the much more sensible universe--not to mention the game's original universe--where if it looks like a dice result and quacks like a dice result, we treat it like a duck. Er, dice result.

I know it's the intention of the designers to avoid increasing the offense of the game. By increasing the offense it's very plain to see the power creep as attacks get s stronger. They've instead focused on increasing defensive tactics. By making cards like "Advance Cloaking Device","C3P-O" and "Autothrusters" is harder to see the influence in the power creep. Although I understand the frustration of the OP they need to keep the defense in check or games will only increase in time.

I like the change since it actually makes those ships relevant.

It just so happens that almost EVERY ship that you want to shoot at with uncancellable dice has access to the evade action. It made Ten Numb feel useless, and made Autoblaster make little sense to use in place of a 4 Dice primary attack.

How does the defender cancel critical results before hit results, as written on the Autoblaster upgrade card then? Maybe I haven't had enough caffeine this morning but it seems this was only possible with an evade token? Thanks for pointing this out in FAQ btw, I totally glossed over this section.

How does the defender cancel critical results before hit results, as written on the Autoblaster upgrade card then? Maybe I haven't had enough caffeine this morning but it seems this was only possible with an evade token? Thanks for pointing this out in FAQ btw, I totally glossed over this section.

Ten Numb, Autoblaster, and Autoblaster Turret all prevent the defender from canceling [boom] results with [evade] results, but the defender can still cancel [kaboom] results normally.

Still bad then, so fundamental change in the core mechanics to make one weapon better.

This is the first time since i started playing this game a year or so ago when i thinkk FFG have made a truly appalling decision.

How is this appalling? I've run ties against mango ten plenty of times. One simple trick... Haul into close range for the first turn of shooting, you eat one crit then tear him apart easy because Bwings melt to massed tie fire.

Ahahaha nice signature mate

How does the defender cancel critical results before hit results, as written on the Autoblaster upgrade card then? Maybe I haven't had enough caffeine this morning but it seems this was only possible with an evade token? Thanks for pointing this out in FAQ btw, I totally glossed over this section.

Ten Numb, Autoblaster, and Autoblaster Turret all prevent the defender from canceling [boom] results with [evade] results, but the defender can still cancel [kaboom] results normally.

I think you got a bit textually mixed up there... long day much?

Autoblaster and Autoblaster Turret prevent you from cancelling [booms] with defence dice (and thus evade tokens). So under the rules you wouldn't be able to cancel [kabooms] since you must cancel all [booms] before cancelling [kabooms]. The two autoblasters thus have a special rule that says you may cancel [kabooms] first.

Ten Numb says 1 [kaboom] may not be cancelled by defence dice. Thus all the rolled [booms] and 1 rolled [kaboom] cannot be cancelled.

How does the defender cancel critical results before hit results, as written on the Autoblaster upgrade card then? Maybe I haven't had enough caffeine this morning but it seems this was only possible with an evade token? Thanks for pointing this out in FAQ btw, I totally glossed over this section.

Ten Numb, Autoblaster, and Autoblaster Turret all prevent the defender from canceling [boom] results with [evade] results, but the defender can still cancel [kaboom] results normally.

In other words, I can cancel the attacker's critical results [kaboom] with the defense roll but any standard hit [boom] is just going to be suffered (EXCEPTION: one Ten Numb [kaboom]). Told you I haven't had enough caffeine yet!

How does the defender cancel critical results before hit results, as written on the Autoblaster upgrade card then? Maybe I haven't had enough caffeine this morning but it seems this was only possible with an evade token? Thanks for pointing this out in FAQ btw, I totally glossed over this section.

Ten Numb, Autoblaster, and Autoblaster Turret all prevent the defender from canceling [boom] results with [evade] results, but the defender can still cancel [kaboom] results normally.

In other words, I can cancel the attacker's critical results [kaboom] with the defense roll but any standard hit [boom] is just going to be suffered. Told you I haven't had enough caffeine yet!

Need to get yourself some tea and a nice bacon sarnie then.

Tien Numb + Mangler Cannon is 13 points more than the basic B-wing. That is a whole ship!

I am not saying Tien Numb + Mangler Cannon isn't a good combo, He is and he is very slightly better with the new FAQ.

But what is really going to do more damage B-Wing + Z-95 or Tien Numb + Mangler Cannon.

This allows autoblasters to ignore C-3PO.

This allows autoblasters to ignore C-3PO.

Indeed

It was a necessary change to clean up the rules a bit.

Tien Numb + Mangler Cannon is 13 points more than the basic B-wing. That is a whole ship!

I am not saying Tien Numb + Mangler Cannon isn't a good combo, He is and he is very slightly better with the new FAQ.

But what is really going to do more damage B-Wing + Z-95 or Tien Numb + Mangler Cannon.

Depends. A Z-95 hasn't a shot in hell of hitting (much less getting in arc) Soontir Fel with SD + ATs. Even a B-wing will have a hard time pinning down and actually hitting a Turtled Soontir. Against lower agility targets, yeah the B-wing and Z-95 will serve you better.

Autoblasters really needed the help. I thought it was dumb that the ships Autoblasters were supposed to be good against (TIEs) could laugh them off with an Evade action.

Just think of it as the Falcon nerf that everyone wanted.

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