Double header Battle Report- testing 3 Victory II SDs
Awesome! The 3 victories closing in on the bottom photograph just oozes "Unlimited Power!!"
Without squadron commands his fighters must have really been struggling to deal enough damage. Hopefully beefier Rebel ships will help make 3 vsd's a less overwhelming list.
A mighty blow against chaos was struck this day, well played. This is great as it confirms that tight formations will be the Imperial's best ally in these fights. The X-wings overwhelmed one VSD but concentrated fire and intersecting lanes of fire seem to have won the day.
Awesome!
3 VSDs are very strong, but they have to be played well due to the risk of either colliding with one another, or having the whole group being flanked. But if you hang one back, or have them turn to the side as you did, you can manage to keep enemy ships in your preferred arc. Well played!
One thing I noticed: X-Wings are great as generalist fighters when dealing with a combination of enemy squadrons and capital ships, but they lag behind when placed in a dedicated role like the ones in your second game. Even with the bomber ability, the red die isn't strong enough, compared to the black die, to do consistently large damage. And only the black die can double damage and crit on the same die roll (best red can do is double damage on one facing).
X-Wings are still a good choice when you're not sure what squadrons the other player is bringing to the table. But if you know for sure that your opponent is going squadron light, Y wings and B wings, given their point cost, are better bang for the buck when you need dedicated bombers. Keyan Farlander does absolutely stupid damage to unshielded capital ships. Although if there's one pilot you should always field for bombing (correction ... always field, period), it's Luke. Luke is a god for bombing when striking at heavily shielded targets like Star Destroyers.
How often did you find yourself using medium range?
It looked like most of the fire fights were happening at short or long range. Was this because the rebels didn't care about how close they were getting, or was it because of relative speeds and available moves. Basically do you think the rebels would have got caught by victory I's?
My reason for asking is with three vic I's you can get five fighters as well to really slow the x-wings down a bit first.
I am pretty hopeful that once wave one hits the scene, specifically bombers, the "no fighters" option will just be too risky.. if you turn up like that and your opponent brings 4 y/b/t-b . . . its not going to be pretty
"In the end, we discovered that, surprisingly, 3 VSD IIs are pretty powerful!"
YOU DONT SAY? 
I really hope that this combo will be history with wave 1, because even though everybody might theorycraft some tactics with a chance of success, on the table its just a horrifying thing to encounter. With the nimble rebell core stuff at hands, and without proxying any cards from wave 1 like mon mothma, 3 VSD IIs is a rapetrain.
I see a wrinkle in the space time continuum.....
I love how your squadrons have the wound marker tip painted red. nice touch.
I think 5 Nebulons are more terrifing than 3 VSD. At long range of course.
25 hull, 15 red dice vs 24 hull, 9 red dice.
If all ships use Concentrate Fire command, it becomes even more terrifing.
20 red dice vs 12 red dice.
Also, the 5 Nebulons would have the initiative bid (and still have room for 12 pts of upgrades).
Oppening Salvo, Fire Lanes, Dangerous Territory objectives would really hurt the 3 VSD.
Well, the things with playing three lumbering and incredibly slow VSDs is that you REALLY need to know how to properly position them in formation. I've also seen a few sessions on Youtube where all the VSDs got flanked and kept running into each other. But in the hands of a skilled player, it's pretty nasty.
That being said, with so little points left over for squadrons, they are very susceptible to waves of B-Wings burning them down (VSDs have only a single blue anti-squadron dice and are so slow, even B wings can catch them), while the rebel ships turn to flank and keep at long range. Basically, the fighters are the ones doing most of the dirty work. Mix that in with an Assault Frigate with Gallant Haven within range of those squadrons, and you've basically got invincible bombers.
Those nebulons could almost one shot a vic, esp wih conc fire.... I had not thought of this.
But I still think 7 CR90Bs with mon mothma is the scariest Rebel fleet.
This is an interesting read. In our own playtesting, we found the exact opposite: 3 VSDIIs were pretty bad. I also think the Rebel list you played against was not optimized at all. Dominator is also kind of not worth it at 300, you're paying 12 points to use an ability that damages you and that you won't be using every attack.
If you take 3 you have so little points left over for squadrons that if you come up against a Rebel player or a fighter heavy Imperial player your anti squadron dice aren't going to cut it. I tried the list several times against a variety of opponents and every time the result was the same. The VSD's were either picked apart by enemy fighters or I would lose one or two and then the opponent would disengage to improve his victory margin.
Assault frigates and Rebel fighters eat VSD's for breakfast. Gladiators can also deal huge damage to them. I would be interested to see you repeat these games, but with Wave I material.
This is an interesting read. In our own playtesting, we found the exact opposite: 3 VSDIIs were pretty bad. I also think the Rebel list you played against was not optimized at all. Dominator is also kind of not worth it at 300, you're paying 12 points to use an ability that damages you and that you won't be using every attack.
If you take 3 you have so little points left over for squadrons that if you come up against a Rebel player or a fighter heavy Imperial player your anti squadron dice aren't going to cut it. I tried the list several times against a variety of opponents and every time the result was the same. The VSD's were either picked apart by enemy fighters or I would lose one or two and then the opponent would disengage to improve his victory margin.
Assault frigates and Rebel fighters eat VSD's for breakfast. Gladiators can also deal huge damage to them. I would be interested to see you repeat these games, but with Wave I material.
Wave 1 material will certainly change the results as the rebels will finally have a ship that can better withstand going toe to toe with a VSD.
My guess is that we will see lists with 1-2 assault frigates going toe to toe with vsd's while the highly maneuverable cr90's snipe from distance.
This is an interesting read. In our own playtesting, we found the exact opposite: 3 VSDIIs were pretty bad. I also think the Rebel list you played against was not optimized at all. Dominator is also kind of not worth it at 300, you're paying 12 points to use an ability that damages you and that you won't be using every attack.
If you take 3 you have so little points left over for squadrons that if you come up against a Rebel player or a fighter heavy Imperial player your anti squadron dice aren't going to cut it. I tried the list several times against a variety of opponents and every time the result was the same. The VSD's were either picked apart by enemy fighters or I would lose one or two and then the opponent would disengage to improve his victory margin.
Assault frigates and Rebel fighters eat VSD's for breakfast. Gladiators can also deal huge damage to them. I would be interested to see you repeat these games, but with Wave I material.
Wave 1 material will certainly change the results as the rebels will finally have a ship that can better withstand going toe to toe with a VSD.
My guess is that we will see lists with 1-2 assault frigates going toe to toe with vsd's while the highly maneuverable cr90's snipe from distance.
If the Assault Frigates are going toe-to-toe with VSD's the rebel player has already lost.
Assault Frigates have stronger side arcs, combined with speed 3 and better maneuverability, they should avoid a front arc encounter as much as possible. It is much better to aim for a position to the side, skirt by the VSDs front arc at long range, and start circling around, using it's superior maneuverability. That allows the assault fringe to use its better broadsides.
This is an interesting read. In our own playtesting, we found the exact opposite: 3 VSDIIs were pretty bad. I also think the Rebel list you played against was not optimized at all. Dominator is also kind of not worth it at 300, you're paying 12 points to use an ability that damages you and that you won't be using every attack.
If you take 3 you have so little points left over for squadrons that if you come up against a Rebel player or a fighter heavy Imperial player your anti squadron dice aren't going to cut it. I tried the list several times against a variety of opponents and every time the result was the same. The VSD's were either picked apart by enemy fighters or I would lose one or two and then the opponent would disengage to improve his victory margin.
Assault frigates and Rebel fighters eat VSD's for breakfast. Gladiators can also deal huge damage to them. I would be interested to see you repeat these games, but with Wave I material.
Wave 1 material will certainly change the results as the rebels will finally have a ship that can better withstand going toe to toe with a VSD.
My guess is that we will see lists with 1-2 assault frigates going toe to toe with vsd's while the highly maneuverable cr90's snipe from distance.
If the Assault Frigates are going toe-to-toe with VSD's the rebel player has already lost.
Assault Frigates have stronger side arcs, combined with speed 3 and better maneuverability, they should avoid a front arc encounter as much as possible. It is much better to aim for a position to the side, skirt by the VSDs front arc at long range, and start circling around, using it's superior maneuverability. That allows the assault fringe to use its better broadsides.
by going toe to toe I didn't mean front arc to front arc... I mean getting up close and personal.
While the cr90's snipe from range.
This is an interesting read. In our own playtesting, we found the exact opposite: 3 VSDIIs were pretty bad. I also think the Rebel list you played against was not optimized at all. Dominator is also kind of not worth it at 300, you're paying 12 points to use an ability that damages you and that you won't be using every attack.
If you take 3 you have so little points left over for squadrons that if you come up against a Rebel player or a fighter heavy Imperial player your anti squadron dice aren't going to cut it. I tried the list several times against a variety of opponents and every time the result was the same. The VSD's were either picked apart by enemy fighters or I would lose one or two and then the opponent would disengage to improve his victory margin.
Assault frigates and Rebel fighters eat VSD's for breakfast. Gladiators can also deal huge damage to them. I would be interested to see you repeat these games, but with Wave I material.
Wave 1 material will certainly change the results as the rebels will finally have a ship that can better withstand going toe to toe with a VSD.
My guess is that we will see lists with 1-2 assault frigates going toe to toe with vsd's while the highly maneuverable cr90's snipe from distance.
If the Assault Frigates are going toe-to-toe with VSD's the rebel player has already lost.
Assault Frigates have stronger side arcs, combined with speed 3 and better maneuverability, they should avoid a front arc encounter as much as possible. It is much better to aim for a position to the side, skirt by the VSDs front arc at long range, and start circling around, using it's superior maneuverability. That allows the assault fringe to use its better broadsides.
by going toe to toe I didn't mean front arc to front arc... I mean getting up close and personal.
While the cr90's snipe from range.
The Assault frigates in our playtesting easily out shoot the VSD from the sides. The Assault frigate is way more maneuverable than the VSD, so the VSD gets one front shot off and is then circle strafed by the Assault frigate while it tries to turn around.
Sounds about right from the dojo I have been doing with our group. We've been leaning towards a Redemption Neb and 2 assault frigates with engineering techs for all the tanking or a frigate with a lot of vettes with fighter support. wont know till wave 1 drops and we can play it.
As for imperials we've settled (ok so I've settled) on a 2 Vic2 build with Screed and lots of bombers.
Not really a fan of either reble list. If you know you're playing against imps, I'd much rather have Neb-B than Corvettes. If it was possible I wouldn't bring a single Corvette, although you also probably want a different commander, which isn't possible till wave 2. So I think all this battle report proves, is that Rebels need wave 1 to get here. I'll take 5 Neb-Bs with XI7 turbolasers over 3 VSDs any day.
Edited by NeverTellMeTheOddsI'm personally a little leery of depending on just Neb Bs. While it's front arc is quite strong for a ship that size, it does eventually need to turn around, exposing it's ultra fragile sides ... unless they want to play chicken with Vic 1s at close range, or worse, a pair of Vic 1s with Gunnery Team.
Also take into consideration that a good Imperial player won't just line up 3 VSDs all side by side in a straight line. That's just begging to be flanked.
I'm personally a little leery of depending on just Neb Bs. While it's front arc is quite strong for a ship that size, it does eventually need to turn around, exposing it's ultra fragile sides ... unless they want to play chicken with Vic 1s at close range, or worse, a pair of Vic 1s with Gunnery Team.
Also take into consideration that a good Imperial player won't just line up 3 VSDs all side by side in a straight line. That's just begging to be flanked.
I'd never try and flank the VSD, I'd try and stay at long range and dump 15-20 red dice at one VSD a turn.
Edited by NeverTellMeTheOddsSo you're planning at staying at 0 speed I gather?
I am less concerned with list building and more concerned with the positioning in this battle report. Is the rebel player keeping his ships at speed 1-2 the entire time? The photos make it seem that the SDs just crawled across the map to put the rebels in their front arc.
So you're planning at staying at 0 speed I gather?
It depends on the situation, with some of them probably.