Also, people seem to think that online retailer are some kind of mega corporation. Greatboardgames.ca and Boardgamebliss.com started as 1 man business. Now they may have some employee, but they are still small business. If you call to Boardgamebliss number, you will talk directly to the owner.

Also, they have a warehouse, the utility of the warehouse and employees to pay too, just like a LGS. So these points don't hold strong as a reason for LGS to charge more.

Well, there also seems to be a sense of entitlement on the part of some of those supporting the LGS so vehmently.

Entitled to what? I'm not accusing anyone of greed. I'm saying a few things:

• If you play at a place, you should buy from a place.
• There are a lot of broader benefits to supporting FLGSs over online retailers. (see argument here)

Well, there also seems to be a sense of entitlement on the part of some of those supporting the LGS so vehmently. Personally, I find it rather warped when people accuse others looking for the best deal of "greed" and other silly things. Speaking for me, frankly, the only one who has a right to decide how the money I have earned is spent is me. If I can stretch my hobby dollar, I will and there is nothing at all wrong with that.

That is completely aside from the merits of buying from a LGS (of which there are many). So... if this discussion must conitnue, can we please keep it on the merits of buying from a LGS and not question the morality of those who look for a good deal?

It's so strange. Once upon a time looking for a good deal was considered "smart shopping."

Again shop wherever you want. Seriously, we have said that repeatedly again and again.

Now what we Are saying is that if you want the Game Stores to be there for game nights and to hold tournaments then understand if you do not support them they will Not support your hobby. And the $5 fee for a tournament does not go to the store's profit, it goes to purchasing the Kit from FFG, the wages of the employee that runs the store at the time and the prizes given away afterwards. (Which many LGS do.)

So again and for the Last time, shop where you want! But if you want somewhere to play don't cry when your LGS says no to their play space if you do not support them. That is business and Life as a whole. If the store does support your hobby without you purchasing products from them that would be like charity, but they wouldn't be able to claim a tax write off for you, kind of like giving money to a homeless person.

Well, there also seems to be a sense of entitlement on the part of some of those supporting the LGS so vehmently.

Entitled to what? I'm not accusing anyone of greed. I'm saying a few things:

• If you play at a place, you should buy from a place.
• There are a lot of broader benefits to supporting FLGSs over online retailers. (see argument here)

Specifically to HNN though: I know your a propagada minister for an Empire that is in a lot of cross hairs, but you are not always the target. ;-)

Well, there also seems to be a sense of entitlement on the part of some of those supporting the LGS so vehmently.

Entitled to what? I'm not accusing anyone of greed. I'm saying a few things:

• If you play at a place, you should buy from a place.

Why? What's your reasoning for this statement?

Are you of the opinion that if there are several Xwing tournaments in various game shops around town, you should only play in tournaments where you bought your miniatures (or other products) from?

Well, there also seems to be a sense of entitlement on the part of some of those supporting the LGS so vehmently.

Entitled to what? I'm not accusing anyone of greed. I'm saying a few things:

• If you play at a place, you should buy from a place.

Why? What's your reasoning for this statement?

Are you of the opinion that if there are several Xwing tournaments in various game shops around town, you should only play in tournaments where you bought your miniatures (or other products) from?

Face Palm.

If you do not support your LGS's they will not support your hobby. Do you understand?

But you can play at a tournament you didn't get your stuff from because they are hoping to earn your loyalty and earn a new customer.

Why do you think LGS's hold them at all? They make Nothing from the Tournament fees, and I am not making this up, they make Nothing from holding the tournament. They do it in hopes of that promoting sales.

Business 101.

Hope this isn't coming off too harsh, just feels like the message is getting lost in translation.

Well, there also seems to be a sense of entitlement on the part of some of those supporting the LGS so vehmently.

Entitled to what? I'm not accusing anyone of greed. I'm saying a few things:

• If you play at a place, you should buy from a place.
• There are a lot of broader benefits to supporting FLGSs over online retailers. (see argument here)

I didn't name you specifically. I don't recall you saying anyone was "greedy" or questioning thier morality about trying to save money. Their are posters on here who have done that. I thought by specifying that I had made it clear what type of poster I meant. And you will notice I also said there are many benefits to buying from an LGS.

Thank you.

I think a lot of that was in the other thread. I'd hoped to keep that out of this thread with my OP. If you're referring to specific people, it helps to name them so that we know who you're talking about.

Specifically to HNN though: I know your a propagada minister for an Empire that is in a lot of cross hairs, but you are not always the target. ;-)

Well, I'm not going to claim any heroics like Imperial stormtroopers or TIE fighter pilots can, but I appreciate that you recognize the dangers of my position. In this politically-correct alien-loving galaxy with fringe criminals and terrorist rebels all around, you never know who might be gunning for you for doing nothing more than reporting the news as it really is.

Well, there also seems to be a sense of entitlement on the part of some of those supporting the LGS so vehmently.

Entitled to what? I'm not accusing anyone of greed. I'm saying a few things:

• If you play at a place, you should buy from a place.

Why? What's your reasoning for this statement?

Are you of the opinion that if there are several Xwing tournaments in various game shops around town, you should only play in tournaments where you bought your miniatures (or other products) from?

For my reasoning, follow the link.

I certainly try to buy something from them if I have the ability to do so. I want to buy from them because I want to see them continue flourish so that I have a place where I can continue to go and play those tournaments.

Now, I'm not trying to be doctrinaire about it. I don't buy something at every store every time that I pop in to play a game. It's a more generalized thing than that.

Well, there also seems to be a sense of entitlement on the part of some of those supporting the LGS so vehmently. Personally, I find it rather warped when people accuse others looking for the best deal of "greed" and other silly things. Speaking for me, frankly, the only one who has a right to decide how the money I have earned is spent is me. If I can stretch my hobby dollar, I will and there is nothing at all wrong with that.

That is completely aside from the merits of buying from a LGS (of which there are many). So... if this discussion must conitnue, can we please keep it on the merits of buying from a LGS and not question the morality of those who look for a good deal?

It's so strange. Once upon a time looking for a good deal was considered "smart shopping."

We are not saying you don't have the right to shop where you want at all. Go back and read every post and you will see this. Sometimes people "think" that something is being said that really is not at all. Shop wherever you want.

Again shop wherever you want. Seriously, we have said that repeatedly again and again.

Now what we Are saying is that if you want the Game Stores to be there for game nights and to hold tournaments then understand if you do not support them they will Not support your hobby. And the $5 fee for a tournament does not go to the store's profit, it goes to purchasing the Kit from FFG, the wages of the employee that runs the store at the time and the prizes given away afterwards. (Which many LGS do.)

So again and for the Last time, shop where you want! But if you want somewhere to play don't cry when your LGS says no to their play space if you do not support them. That is business and Life as a whole. If the store does support your hobby without you purchasing products from them that would be like charity, but they wouldn't be able to claim a tax write off for you, kind of like giving money to a homeless person.

I can agree with this...

If the the place where I have gone does close down because too many buy online or whatever, I won't be disappointed. I found the people i play with through a youtube video (hamtag if anyone wants to google up their reviews) and one of the guy's wife puts on a family game day at the local county extension office. He told me about it through board game geek. I went, met some people and through that now have regular folks I play with.

Like another poster further back, when I was in college there was a game club through the university (southern illinois university at carbondale) where they had a space for 10 hours at the student center. We bought games either through mail or at the local game shop, but didn't play there.

I do however think there is a middle ground and that middle ground is somewhere between full MSRP and 35-40% off. The problem I have is with the idea that game shops must sell at MSRP to stay in business.

I was a small business owner for 4 years. I had a large scale tanning salon in glen ellyn illinois. It was a 4000 sq foot facility with 31 rooms (only 24 beds though and room for growth). I had about 8 employees. Now during that time, one of the best deals I had going that brought people in the door and allowed me to upsell was a 3 tans for 3 bucks deal. You come in, we get your info (required by state law) and then I'd market to you through direct mail. The 3 tans for 3 bucks deal was in itself a money loser, but it allowed me to sell product (tan lotion, after tan lotion, protective eyewear, metabolife back when that was a thing, snapple and so on). The point here being, that I didn't just sell everything, especially lotions for MSRP. In fact, when I lowered the prices I sold more bottles than when I had them at MSRP. I think game shops could do something similar to entice more sales to compensate for the loss of overall gross dollars from an MSRP sale and with it, they may even get tack on sales (candy, maybe card sleeves, etc).

Well, there also seems to be a sense of entitlement on the part of some of those supporting the LGS so vehmently.

Entitled to what? I'm not accusing anyone of greed. I'm saying a few things:

• If you play at a place, you should buy from a place.

Why? What's your reasoning for this statement?

Are you of the opinion that if there are several Xwing tournaments in various game shops around town, you should only play in tournaments where you bought your miniatures (or other products) from?

Face Palm.

If you do not support your LGS's they will not support your hobby. Do you understand?

But you can play at a tournament you didn't get your stuff from because they are hoping to earn your loyalty and earn a new customer.

Why do you think LGS's hold them at all? They make Nothing from the Tournament fees, and I am not making this up, they make Nothing from holding the tournament. They do it in hopes of that promoting sales.

Business 101.

Hope this isn't coming off too harsh, just feels like the message is getting lost in translation.

It's coming off a bit harsh.

I'm looking for someone's perspective on why they feel the way they do. He stated that if you play at a game shop, you should buy from the game shop. So I'm just wondering how far that goes. It's a reasonable question to ask, because, if he doesn't buy each time, then what is the acceptable amount one must buy from an LGS if they play there? Is it buy something every 2 visits? Every 3 visits? Where is the line that it goes from not supporting them to supporting them? How many purchases must be made where it changes from "not supporting the LGS to supporting the LGS"?

Mik,

If you go back one page you will see exactly what and who I was talking about.

Frankly, Im beginning to think it is just one person using multiple accounts. I notice the names called, typoes, ranting nature and other things seem to follow a pattern.

Well, there also seems to be a sense of entitlement on the part of some of those supporting the LGS so vehmently.

Entitled to what? I'm not accusing anyone of greed. I'm saying a few things:

• If you play at a place, you should buy from a place.
• There are a lot of broader benefits to supporting FLGSs over online retailers. (see argument here)

I didn't name you specifically. I don't recall you saying anyone was "greedy" or questioning thier morality about trying to save money. Their are posters on here who have done that. I thought by specifying that I had made it clear what type of poster I meant. And you will notice I also said there are many benefits to buying from an LGS.

Thank you.

I think a lot of that was in the other thread. I'd hoped to keep that out of this thread with my OP. If you're referring to specific people, it helps to name them so that we know who you're talking about.

Specifically to HNN though: I know your a propagada minister for an Empire that is in a lot of cross hairs, but you are not always the target. ;-)

Well, I'm not going to claim any heroics like Imperial stormtroopers or TIE fighter pilots can, but I appreciate that you recognize the dangers of my position. In this politically-correct alien-loving galaxy with fringe criminals and terrorist rebels all around, you never know who might be gunning for you for doing nothing more than reporting the news as it really is.

Well, there also seems to be a sense of entitlement on the part of some of those supporting the LGS so vehmently.

Entitled to what? I'm not accusing anyone of greed. I'm saying a few things:

• If you play at a place, you should buy from a place.

Why? What's your reasoning for this statement?

Are you of the opinion that if there are several Xwing tournaments in various game shops around town, you should only play in tournaments where you bought your miniatures (or other products) from?

For my reasoning, follow the link.

I certainly try to buy something from them if I have the ability to do so. I want to buy from them because I want to see them continue flourish so that I have a place where I can continue to go and play those tournaments.

Now, I'm not trying to be doctrinaire about it. I don't buy something at every store every time that I pop in to play a game. It's a more generalized thing than that.

Ok understood...

GIven it's more generalized (as i was guessing it probably was), what is the amount or how many purchases do you feel is needed in order support that game store/hobby?

Let's try a few real world examples. I know guys that play star wars LCG every saturday at the local game shop. They bought all their core and major expansions online. They bought their card sleeves at this game shop. Does that constitute supporting the game shop or not in your opinion?

Well, there also seems to be a sense of entitlement on the part of some of those supporting the LGS so vehmently. Personally, I find it rather warped when people accuse others looking for the best deal of "greed" and other silly things. Speaking for me, frankly, the only one who has a right to decide how the money I have earned is spent is me. If I can stretch my hobby dollar, I will and there is nothing at all wrong with that.

That is completely aside from the merits of buying from a LGS (of which there are many). So... if this discussion must conitnue, can we please keep it on the merits of buying from a LGS and not question the morality of those who look for a good deal?

It's so strange. Once upon a time looking for a good deal was considered "smart shopping."

We are not saying you don't have the right to shop where you want at all. Go back and read every post and you will see this. Sometimes people "think" that something is being said that really is not at all. Shop wherever you want.

Again shop wherever you want. Seriously, we have said that repeatedly again and again.

Now what we Are saying is that if you want the Game Stores to be there for game nights and to hold tournaments then understand if you do not support them they will Not support your hobby. And the $5 fee for a tournament does not go to the store's profit, it goes to purchasing the Kit from FFG, the wages of the employee that runs the store at the time and the prizes given away afterwards. (Which many LGS do.)

So again and for the Last time, shop where you want! But if you want somewhere to play don't cry when your LGS says no to their play space if you do not support them. That is business and Life as a whole. If the store does support your hobby without you purchasing products from them that would be like charity, but they wouldn't be able to claim a tax write off for you, kind of like giving money to a homeless person.

I can agree with this...

If the the place where I have gone does close down because too many buy online or whatever, I won't be disappointed. I found the people i play with through a youtube video (hamtag if anyone wants to google up their reviews) and one of the guy's wife puts on a family game day at the local county extension office. He told me about it through board game geek. I went, met some people and through that now have regular folks I play with.

Like another poster further back, when I was in college there was a game club through the university (southern illinois university at carbondale) where they had a space for 10 hours at the student center. We bought games either through mail or at the local game shop, but didn't play there.

I do however think there is a middle ground and that middle ground is somewhere between full MSRP and 35-40% off. The problem I have is with the idea that game shops must sell at MSRP to stay in business.

I was a small business owner for 4 years. I had a large scale tanning salon in glen ellyn illinois. It was a 4000 sq foot facility with 31 rooms (only 24 beds though and room for growth). I had about 8 employees. Now during that time, one of the best deals I had going that brought people in the door and allowed me to upsell was a 3 tans for 3 bucks deal. You come in, we get your info (required by state law) and then I'd market to you. The 3 tans for 3 bucks deal was in itself a money loser, but it allowed me to sell product (tan lotion, after tan lotion, protective eyewear, metabolife back when that was a thing, snapple and so on). The point here being, that I didn't just sell everything, especially lotions for MSRP. In fact, when I lowered the prices I sold more bottles than when I had them at MSRP. I think game shops could do something similar to entice more sales to compensate for the loss of overall gross dollars from an MSRP sale and with it, they may even get tack on sales (candy, maybe card sleeves, etc).

I will say though that the online stores are able to sell items cheaper because they can keep their overhead down to a minimum do to the nature of online sales. Brick and Mortar stores do not have that advantage and I know they won't be able to keep the lights on if they sold everything at the online price.

But yes, online shopping has effected many small businesses across the U.S. and probably globally. This issue is not new though and many small businesses are adapting and adding extra things to draw customers. In Portland we have a LGS that sells Beer and bought a space with more gaming space than sales space, and it is paying off for them. Not all LGS's are able to do this but if they go away then we will have to go back to the days when if you wanted a game you went to a house or joined a Gaming Club for a fee.

But of you have a place to game that is not at LGS's that is great. Gaming is about being with friends and having fun bonding.

Well, there also seems to be a sense of entitlement on the part of some of those supporting the LGS so vehmently. Personally, I find it rather warped when people accuse others looking for the best deal of "greed" and other silly things. Speaking for me, frankly, the only one who has a right to decide how the money I have earned is spent is me. If I can stretch my hobby dollar, I will and there is nothing at all wrong with that.

That is completely aside from the merits of buying from a LGS (of which there are many). So... if this discussion must conitnue, can we please keep it on the merits of buying from a LGS and not question the morality of those who look for a good deal?

It's so strange. Once upon a time looking for a good deal was considered "smart shopping."

We are not saying you don't have the right to shop where you want at all. Go back and read every post and you will see this. Sometimes people "think" that something is being said that really is not at all. Shop wherever you want.

Again shop wherever you want. Seriously, we have said that repeatedly again and again.

Now what we Are saying is that if you want the Game Stores to be there for game nights and to hold tournaments then understand if you do not support them they will Not support your hobby. And the $5 fee for a tournament does not go to the store's profit, it goes to purchasing the Kit from FFG, the wages of the employee that runs the store at the time and the prizes given away afterwards. (Which many LGS do.)

So again and for the Last time, shop where you want! But if you want somewhere to play don't cry when your LGS says no to their play space if you do not support them. That is business and Life as a whole. If the store does support your hobby without you purchasing products from them that would be like charity, but they wouldn't be able to claim a tax write off for you, kind of like giving money to a homeless person.

I can agree with this...

If the the place where I have gone does close down because too many buy online or whatever, I won't be disappointed. I found the people i play with through a youtube video (hamtag if anyone wants to google up their reviews) and one of the guy's wife puts on a family game day at the local county extension office. He told me about it through board game geek. I went, met some people and through that now have regular folks I play with.

Like another poster further back, when I was in college there was a game club through the university (southern illinois university at carbondale) where they had a space for 10 hours at the student center. We bought games either through mail or at the local game shop, but didn't play there.

I do however think there is a middle ground and that middle ground is somewhere between full MSRP and 35-40% off. The problem I have is with the idea that game shops must sell at MSRP to stay in business.

I was a small business owner for 4 years. I had a large scale tanning salon in glen ellyn illinois. It was a 4000 sq foot facility with 31 rooms (only 24 beds though and room for growth). I had about 8 employees. Now during that time, one of the best deals I had going that brought people in the door and allowed me to upsell was a 3 tans for 3 bucks deal. You come in, we get your info (required by state law) and then I'd market to you. The 3 tans for 3 bucks deal was in itself a money loser, but it allowed me to sell product (tan lotion, after tan lotion, protective eyewear, metabolife back when that was a thing, snapple and so on). The point here being, that I didn't just sell everything, especially lotions for MSRP. In fact, when I lowered the prices I sold more bottles than when I had them at MSRP. I think game shops could do something similar to entice more sales to compensate for the loss of overall gross dollars from an MSRP sale and with it, they may even get tack on sales (candy, maybe card sleeves, etc).

I do not disagree with this post.

I will say though that the online stores are able to sell items cheaper because they can keep their overhead down to a minimum do to the nature of online sales. Brick and Mortar stores do not have that advantage and I know they won't be able to keep the lights on if they sold everything at the online price.

But yes, online shopping has effected many small businesses across the U.S. and probably globally. This issue is not new though and many small businesses are adapting and adding extra things to draw customers. In Portland we have a LGS that sells Beer and bought a space with more gaming space than sales space, and it is paying off for them. Not all LGS's are able to do this but if they go away then we will have to go back to the days when if you wanted a game you went to a house or joined a Gaming Club for a fee.

But of you have a place to game that is not at LGS's that is great. Gaming is about being with friends and having fun bonding.

Specifically, what in my post do you not agree with?

You don't think game shops can sell games for less than msrp?

Note, I did not at any time suggest they sell them at online prices. In fact, I suggested a middle ground between msrp and 35-40% off.

Or maybe you don't agree with my actual small business experience of selling items for less than MSRP and selling more than what I did when I sold it for MSRP? (which for lotions is 100% markup on cost btw)

Well, there also seems to be a sense of entitlement on the part of some of those supporting the LGS so vehmently.

Entitled to what? I'm not accusing anyone of greed. I'm saying a few things:

• If you play at a place, you should buy from a place.

Why? What's your reasoning for this statement?

Are you of the opinion that if there are several Xwing tournaments in various game shops around town, you should only play in tournaments where you bought your miniatures (or other products) from?

Face Palm.

If you do not support your LGS's they will not support your hobby. Do you understand?

But you can play at a tournament you didn't get your stuff from because they are hoping to earn your loyalty and earn a new customer.

Why do you think LGS's hold them at all? They make Nothing from the Tournament fees, and I am not making this up, they make Nothing from holding the tournament. They do it in hopes of that promoting sales.

Business 101.

Hope this isn't coming off too harsh, just feels like the message is getting lost in translation.

As to your question there is no formula really, but if a game is not being supported there will be signs. Less Product being ordered, game night being canceled for another event and tournaments no longer being held.

I honestly buy from several different LGS's but since I am not that rich (or even close to rich ) I am not buying tons either. But since the store managers are always on good spirits with me and they know I will be back to purchase again I don't feel obligated to purchase every time. Nor should anyone.

In fact, when I lowered the prices I sold more bottles than when I had them at MSRP. I think game shops could do something similar to entice more sales to compensate for the loss of overall gross dollars from an MSRP sale and with it, they may even get tack on sales (candy, maybe card sleeves, etc).

Yes, there are probably intelligent things that they could do, but I also think there's an up-frontness for a small store just to have a standard profit margin.

I'm looking for someone's perspective on why they feel the way they do. He stated that if you play at a game shop, you should buy from the game shop. So I'm just wondering how far that goes. It's a reasonable question to ask, because, if he doesn't buy each time, then what is the acceptable amount one must buy from an LGS if they play there? Is it buy something every 2 visits? Every 3 visits? Where is the line that it goes from not supporting them to supporting them? How many purchases must be made where it changes from "not supporting the LGS to supporting the LGS"?

Enumerating it defeats the whole idea of generalized reciprocity, in my opinion. Of course, it's not quite generalized reciprocity in the sense of gift-giving and all that, but still that there's no precise accounting for it and there's the trust that you're scratching one another's back. There's also a level of do-what-you-can-ness to it. I can afford to shell out more than the average gamer probably can. So, I'm happy to buy all my products from the FLGS rather than the online retailer. Myself, store-owners, and even rebel scum like Beatty understand that people who can't afford as much will be more tight with their spending. Hopefully, when those people have come into their own, they'll buy more like I buy.

Well, there also seems to be a sense of entitlement on the part of some of those supporting the LGS so vehmently. Personally, I find it rather warped when people accuse others looking for the best deal of "greed" and other silly things. Speaking for me, frankly, the only one who has a right to decide how the money I have earned is spent is me. If I can stretch my hobby dollar, I will and there is nothing at all wrong with that.

That is completely aside from the merits of buying from a LGS (of which there are many). So... if this discussion must conitnue, can we please keep it on the merits of buying from a LGS and not question the morality of those who look for a good deal?

It's so strange. Once upon a time looking for a good deal was considered "smart shopping."

We are not saying you don't have the right to shop where you want at all. Go back and read every post and you will see this. Sometimes people "think" that something is being said that really is not at all. Shop wherever you want.

Again shop wherever you want. Seriously, we have said that repeatedly again and again.

Now what we Are saying is that if you want the Game Stores to be there for game nights and to hold tournaments then understand if you do not support them they will Not support your hobby. And the $5 fee for a tournament does not go to the store's profit, it goes to purchasing the Kit from FFG, the wages of the employee that runs the store at the time and the prizes given away afterwards. (Which many LGS do.)

So again and for the Last time, shop where you want! But if you want somewhere to play don't cry when your LGS says no to their play space if you do not support them. That is business and Life as a whole. If the store does support your hobby without you purchasing products from them that would be like charity, but they wouldn't be able to claim a tax write off for you, kind of like giving money to a homeless person.

I can agree with this...

If the the place where I have gone does close down because too many buy online or whatever, I won't be disappointed. I found the people i play with through a youtube video (hamtag if anyone wants to google up their reviews) and one of the guy's wife puts on a family game day at the local county extension office. He told me about it through board game geek. I went, met some people and through that now have regular folks I play with.

Like another poster further back, when I was in college there was a game club through the university (southern illinois university at carbondale) where they had a space for 10 hours at the student center. We bought games either through mail or at the local game shop, but didn't play there.

I do however think there is a middle ground and that middle ground is somewhere between full MSRP and 35-40% off. The problem I have is with the idea that game shops must sell at MSRP to stay in business.

I was a small business owner for 4 years. I had a large scale tanning salon in glen ellyn illinois. It was a 4000 sq foot facility with 31 rooms (only 24 beds though and room for growth). I had about 8 employees. Now during that time, one of the best deals I had going that brought people in the door and allowed me to upsell was a 3 tans for 3 bucks deal. You come in, we get your info (required by state law) and then I'd market to you. The 3 tans for 3 bucks deal was in itself a money loser, but it allowed me to sell product (tan lotion, after tan lotion, protective eyewear, metabolife back when that was a thing, snapple and so on). The point here being, that I didn't just sell everything, especially lotions for MSRP. In fact, when I lowered the prices I sold more bottles than when I had them at MSRP. I think game shops could do something similar to entice more sales to compensate for the loss of overall gross dollars from an MSRP sale and with it, they may even get tack on sales (candy, maybe card sleeves, etc).

I do not disagree with this post.

I will say though that the online stores are able to sell items cheaper because they can keep their overhead down to a minimum do to the nature of online sales. Brick and Mortar stores do not have that advantage and I know they won't be able to keep the lights on if they sold everything at the online price.

But yes, online shopping has effected many small businesses across the U.S. and probably globally. This issue is not new though and many small businesses are adapting and adding extra things to draw customers. In Portland we have a LGS that sells Beer and bought a space with more gaming space than sales space, and it is paying off for them. Not all LGS's are able to do this but if they go away then we will have to go back to the days when if you wanted a game you went to a house or joined a Gaming Club for a fee.

But of you have a place to game that is not at LGS's that is great. Gaming is about being with friends and having fun bonding.

Specifically, what in my post do you not agree with?

You don't think game shops can sell games for less than msrp?

Note, I did not at any time suggest they sell them at online prices. In fact, I suggested a middle ground between msrp and 35-40% off.

Or maybe you don't agree with my actual small business experience of selling items for less than MSRP and selling more than what I did when I sold it for MSRP? (which for lotions is 100% markup on cost btw)

The issue comes into is the MSRP a one size fits all? Honestly it's not and because of that many may miss the reason for a MSRP. It's to prevent gouging and to take into account a small business's overheads to keep their lights on. But not every store and area have the same circumstances to make an overall statement as to what small businesses should do.

Not saying your wrong as much as I am saying there is more to the story that needs to be looked at.

In fact, when I lowered the prices I sold more bottles than when I had them at MSRP. I think game shops could do something similar to entice more sales to compensate for the loss of overall gross dollars from an MSRP sale and with it, they may even get tack on sales (candy, maybe card sleeves, etc).

Yes, there are probably intelligent things that they could do, but I also think there's an up-frontness for a small store just to have a standard profit margin.

I'm looking for someone's perspective on why they feel the way they do. He stated that if you play at a game shop, you should buy from the game shop. So I'm just wondering how far that goes. It's a reasonable question to ask, because, if he doesn't buy each time, then what is the acceptable amount one must buy from an LGS if they play there? Is it buy something every 2 visits? Every 3 visits? Where is the line that it goes from not supporting them to supporting them? How many purchases must be made where it changes from "not supporting the LGS to supporting the LGS"?

Enumerating it defeats the whole idea of generalized reciprocity, in my opinion. Of course, it's not quite generalized reciprocity in the sense of gift-giving and all that, but still that there's no precise accounting for it and there's the trust that you're scratching one another's back. There's also a level of do-what-you-can-ness to it. I can afford to shell out more than the average gamer probably can. So, I'm happy to buy all my products from the FLGS rather than the online retailer. Myself, store-owners, and even rebel scum like Beatty understand that people who can't afford as much will be more tight with their spending. Hopefully, when those people have come into their own, they'll buy more like I buy.

I understand that enumerating it defeats the purpose of what your advocating, but my suggestion to do so was to make a point.

Which is, that each of us defines for ourselves using our own criteria what is an acceptable amount to buy at a local game shop to support it and the hobby. What I usually find though, is that the scale people tend to use is often weighted towards their own purchases being of more value to the game store than other peoples purchases.

So let's go real world again, those star wars LCG guys who bought sleeves from the store but cores and expansions online. Do they meet your criteria for reciprocity or no? If they feel they met the criteria, is that good enough?

Clearly when it comes to game purchases, all of it is simply for entertainment and thus any purchase is strictly for entertainment. So, did the star wars LCG guys do a disservice to the game shop by not buying maybe a few less expansions and instead invest that extra money in buying less game boxes overall, but at MSRP from the game shop instead of online?

Well, there also seems to be a sense of entitlement on the part of some of those supporting the LGS so vehmently. Personally, I find it rather warped when people accuse others looking for the best deal of "greed" and other silly things. Speaking for me, frankly, the only one who has a right to decide how the money I have earned is spent is me. If I can stretch my hobby dollar, I will and there is nothing at all wrong with that.

That is completely aside from the merits of buying from a LGS (of which there are many). So... if this discussion must conitnue, can we please keep it on the merits of buying from a LGS and not question the morality of those who look for a good deal?

It's so strange. Once upon a time looking for a good deal was considered "smart shopping."

We are not saying you don't have the right to shop where you want at all. Go back and read every post and you will see this. Sometimes people "think" that something is being said that really is not at all. Shop wherever you want.

Again shop wherever you want. Seriously, we have said that repeatedly again and again.

Now what we Are saying is that if you want the Game Stores to be there for game nights and to hold tournaments then understand if you do not support them they will Not support your hobby. And the $5 fee for a tournament does not go to the store's profit, it goes to purchasing the Kit from FFG, the wages of the employee that runs the store at the time and the prizes given away afterwards. (Which many LGS do.)

So again and for the Last time, shop where you want! But if you want somewhere to play don't cry when your LGS says no to their play space if you do not support them. That is business and Life as a whole. If the store does support your hobby without you purchasing products from them that would be like charity, but they wouldn't be able to claim a tax write off for you, kind of like giving money to a homeless person.

I can agree with this...

If the the place where I have gone does close down because too many buy online or whatever, I won't be disappointed. I found the people i play with through a youtube video (hamtag if anyone wants to google up their reviews) and one of the guy's wife puts on a family game day at the local county extension office. He told me about it through board game geek. I went, met some people and through that now have regular folks I play with.

Like another poster further back, when I was in college there was a game club through the university (southern illinois university at carbondale) where they had a space for 10 hours at the student center. We bought games either through mail or at the local game shop, but didn't play there.

I do however think there is a middle ground and that middle ground is somewhere between full MSRP and 35-40% off. The problem I have is with the idea that game shops must sell at MSRP to stay in business.

I was a small business owner for 4 years. I had a large scale tanning salon in glen ellyn illinois. It was a 4000 sq foot facility with 31 rooms (only 24 beds though and room for growth). I had about 8 employees. Now during that time, one of the best deals I had going that brought people in the door and allowed me to upsell was a 3 tans for 3 bucks deal. You come in, we get your info (required by state law) and then I'd market to you. The 3 tans for 3 bucks deal was in itself a money loser, but it allowed me to sell product (tan lotion, after tan lotion, protective eyewear, metabolife back when that was a thing, snapple and so on). The point here being, that I didn't just sell everything, especially lotions for MSRP. In fact, when I lowered the prices I sold more bottles than when I had them at MSRP. I think game shops could do something similar to entice more sales to compensate for the loss of overall gross dollars from an MSRP sale and with it, they may even get tack on sales (candy, maybe card sleeves, etc).

I do not disagree with this post.

I will say though that the online stores are able to sell items cheaper because they can keep their overhead down to a minimum do to the nature of online sales. Brick and Mortar stores do not have that advantage and I know they won't be able to keep the lights on if they sold everything at the online price.

But yes, online shopping has effected many small businesses across the U.S. and probably globally. This issue is not new though and many small businesses are adapting and adding extra things to draw customers. In Portland we have a LGS that sells Beer and bought a space with more gaming space than sales space, and it is paying off for them. Not all LGS's are able to do this but if they go away then we will have to go back to the days when if you wanted a game you went to a house or joined a Gaming Club for a fee.

But of you have a place to game that is not at LGS's that is great. Gaming is about being with friends and having fun bonding.

Specifically, what in my post do you not agree with?

You don't think game shops can sell games for less than msrp?

Note, I did not at any time suggest they sell them at online prices. In fact, I suggested a middle ground between msrp and 35-40% off.

Or maybe you don't agree with my actual small business experience of selling items for less than MSRP and selling more than what I did when I sold it for MSRP? (which for lotions is 100% markup on cost btw)

That every small game store can afford to sell all items at less than MSRP. Stores in areas where rent is cheap and the average wage is still around $10 might be able to do this but stores, like the ones here in Portland, don't have the luxury. Rent is higher and competitive wages are also higher.

The issue comes into is the MSRP a one size fits all? Honestly it's not and because of that many may miss the reason for a MSRP. It's to prevent gouging and to take into account a small business's overheads to keep their lights on. But not every store and area have the same circumstances to make an overall statement as to what small businesses should do.

Not saying your wrong as much as I am saying there is more to the story that needs to be looked at.

But that's just a business issue, right?

I know for my store, my monthly rent was $7000. Back in '99-2004 when I had the business, I pay $8.25 an hour plus sales commissions. If I wasn't in a suburb of chicago, I could have paid less and my rent would have been waaaaaay less. However, I was able to generate more sales through lower prices and with that, piggy back sales that wouldn't have happened without those lower prices.

I do agree that it's not a 1 size fits all, but right now, most game shops I've visited are full MSRP with maybe an incentive program with a small percentage off. The one here in kansas that I have gone to is $10/yr for 10% off... which basically amounts to removing tax.

Right now, the board game business is booming compared to what it was doing in the late 80's and early 90's. I think it would behoove some of these game shops to find a middle ground to get some of the sales they lose to online shops by finding where that middle ground is between msrp and online prices. There are reasons that places like cardhaus and coolstuff are doing so well.... and game store owners and buyers such as you and I should do more to help them find that middle ground to keep people gaming there, buying there, and keeping the community going.

@Reiryc. Yes, that is business issue.

Well I do talk to my LGS's and have found many Are working on ways to get more business. The one my son goes to to play Pokemon is owned by a great couple that treat the kids there amazingly. They offered me 30% discount on my Preorders with the hopes I will buy more there, and I do at the MRSP.

I know the LGS's in my area are looking for new ways to draw customers like you did with discounts but in the end that may not be the answer for every store.

I understand that enumerating it defeats the purpose of what your advocating, but my suggestion to do so was to make a point.

Which is, that each of us defines for ourselves using our own criteria what is an acceptable amount to buy at a local game shop to support it and the hobby. What I usually find though, is that the scale people tend to use is often weighted towards their own purchases being of more value to the game store than other peoples purchases.

So let's go real world again, those star wars LCG guys who bought sleeves from the store but cores and expansions online. Do they meet your criteria for reciprocity or no? If they feel they met the criteria, is that good enough?

Clearly when it comes to game purchases, all of it is simply for entertainment and thus any purchase is strictly for entertainment. So, did the star wars LCG guys do a disservice to the game shop by not buying maybe a few less expansions and instead invest that extra money in buying less game boxes overall, but at MSRP from the game shop instead of online?

I guess that I'll be like the pope and say: "Who am I to judge?" I don't know these gamers' circumstances. Maybe it's all they can do. However, I'd say that for someone in my current circumstances it's a bit paltry. I'd be a bit embarrassed to spend the amount of time that I do in a gaming store and not buy more than that.

I'm also not going to claim holiness (despite my allusion to the papacy). I buy more from one store than I do another. The store that Beatty mentions gets my money through sleeves, food and beer, whereas another store still gets my product purchases. However, I have friends who buy more from the former store than the latter but play at both. I trust that it balances out. (btw. the owner of the former store donated at least $500 to the latter store, when the latter store had a car crash into its front window.)

So, while I know that these store owners need to add the numbers, I'm treating it more holistically. I'm buying all my stuff from them and not from online retailers. I trust that this is enough in terms of me doing my part to keeping the gaming community healthy. Do I know the accounting? No. But that's also not my role in all this.

I'll toss in my two cents.

I don't really have a dog in this fight. I honestly haven't gamed in a shop in YEARS. Between my work schedule (evenings), the rest of my gaming life (RPGs and computer games), my family and such - I just don't make the time to go to the LGS for gaming anymore. Most of my gaming is online, at conventions, or in my dining room.

Do I think it's a good idea to spend mony in your FLGS if you are gaming there? Certainly.

Gods above and below, I honestly can't calculate how much stuff I purchased at a store while gaming there. Spending money where you enjoy yourself is never a bad thing in a capitalist society. When I was gaming in stores, I made a point to buy SOMETHING every time I was there...

BUT...

About the argument that it is somehow stealing out of the local gaming store's pocket if I order something online.

Do I feel bad if I pull out a gaming piece that I purchased online? Nope. Not one iota.

Why? It's simple. It is not any different morally than purchasing a gaming piece at ANY *other* gaming store - be it physical OR online.

If I walk into gaming store A, spend 5 minutes browsing, purchase item A, and leave - I've bettered the gaming industry. Gaming store A made a sale, distributor A who sold Gaming store A made their profit, and Game Company A who made item A made their profit. The industry as a whole is healthier. The act of spending that entertaiment dollar is what helped the industry - not where exactly I spent it.

If I drive across town and game with some buddies in Gaming Store B that I usually never frequent, and spend money there - am I somehow in the wrong? Money spent on gaming stuff at Gaming Store B isn't *helping* Gaming Store A - but it does help Gaming Store B; and thus it still helps the game industry as a whole.

What about an Open Gaming night at a store- when I bring a long out of print board game that I purchased 20 years ago in a different state? If I run that, and people play and enjoy it - am I being disloyal to the store where I am playing the game? To where I bought the game? What about if my demonstration game gets the store to sell a copy that has been gathering dust on a shelf for 10 years?

If I go to Game Store C another day, play a game, and buy another figure - am I being disloyal to Store B? Should I not use any figures I bought at Store B, or Store A?

No - because Game Store A, Game Store B, and Game Store C are all morally equivalent. They are all Gaming Stores, and my purchases at each have supported the gaming industry and those stores at *those* times.

It is physically and fiscally impossible for me to support ALL gaming stores all the time. That way lies madness.

Assume for a minute that we all universally agree that it's better to buy from a FLGS than from an online place. Everyone still has a limit to how much more they're willing to pay, even the folks here who are diehard on the FLGS side of this thread.

If you buy a Core Set from a FLGS at $100 instead of at $67 online, you're already showing that the FLGS benefits are worth paying 50% more to support. Let's assume you're just always willing to pay 50% more for your miniatures all the time.

But what if your beloved FLGS was the only one in town, and they said charging MSRP still wasn't keeping them profitable. They need to start charging 70% more than online prices. Or 80% more. Do you just keep on paying the premium? Supporting the FLGS is always always worth paying more, no matter how much more?

If your one FLGS option charged $200 for the Armada Core Set, $100 each for the Assault Frigate and VSD expansions, and $40 for each fighter squadron expansion, are you still buying there instead of online? If not, put yourself to the test with every argument in this thread that was said about buying online never being an option. Maybe actually you're really only willing to pay MSRP to support your FLGS, or MSRP plus 5%, or something higher or lower.

So if your limit exists, just think about how other people have their own different limits depending on how much money they make and how much the FLGS means to them. Maybe someone else whose entire circle of friends came from the FLGS would be willing to pay $150 for a Core Set, while you're only willing to go up to $110. Maybe someone doesn't really come to the FLGS that often, and they're only willing to go up to $100, or maybe just to $95. And maybe, just maybe, there are people who use the FLGS even less, or aren't willing to dump as much of their income into this one game, or whatever, and their limit is more around $67-70 as found online.

[...]

Okay. Do you have a conclusion to your argument so that I can understand what point you are trying to make? Right now, most of it looks (to me) like a reductio ad absurdum argument and/or it's covering ground that has already been acknowledged.

Assume for a minute that we all universally agree that it's better to buy from a FLGS than from an online place. Everyone still has a limit to how much more they're willing to pay, even the folks here who are diehard on the FLGS side of this thread.If you buy a Core Set from a FLGS at $100 instead of at $67 online, you're already showing that the FLGS benefits are worth paying 50% more to support. Let's assume you're just always willing to pay 50% more for your miniatures all the time.But what if your beloved FLGS was the only one in town, and they said charging MSRP still wasn't keeping them profitable. They need to start charging 70% more than online prices. Or 80% more. Do you just keep on paying the premium? Supporting the FLGS is always always worth paying more, no matter how much more?If your one FLGS option charged $200 for the Armada Core Set, $100 each for the Assault Frigate and VSD expansions, and $40 for each fighter squadron expansion, are you still buying there instead of online? If not, put yourself to the test with every argument in this thread that was said about buying online never being an option. Maybe actually you're really only willing to pay MSRP to support your FLGS, or MSRP plus 5%, or something higher or lower.So if your limit exists, just think about how other people have their own different limits depending on how much money they make and how much the FLGS means to them. Maybe someone else whose entire circle of friends came from the FLGS would be willing to pay $150 for a Core Set, while you're only willing to go up to $110. Maybe someone doesn't really come to the FLGS that often, and they're only willing to go up to $100, or maybe just to $95. And maybe, just maybe, there are people who use the FLGS even less, or aren't willing to dump as much of their income into this one game, or whatever, and their limit is more around $67-70 as found online.

Also we have stated that we are not questioning someone's ability financially to buy products at full MSRP, and Mikael put it out there quite well about that, so that is a non-argument. Also it seems like a loaded question meant to show how we do not understand some people's position when times are tough. Trust me we understand.

So could you reword those questions to fit a more realistic position?

[...]

Okay. Do you have a conclusion to your argument so that I can understand what point you are trying to make? Right now, most of it looks (to me) like a reductio ad absurdum argument and/or it's covering ground that has already been acknowledged.

But I agree it looked like a loaded question to trap us with absurd examples.