What exactly is the point of this topic anyways? I think it's pretty obvious that no one is going to change their mind on the subject.

Hi Andre82,

Welcome to the forum!

I like my local store, but my store needs to grow with the times. I can not justify 20-30 bucks of charity when I want something like armada.

Regardless of how backwards your particular store might be, I think it's a little demeaning to call it charity. Those people work for a living.

One player kinda exited about armada was debating getting it from the store but could not justify the price. Another guy at the store offered to let him use his amazon prime account in exchange for a few bucks...
The owner could have kicked them out but this really helps no one, The owner probably just got upset at those ungratful people not willing to pay big sums of money for the privlage of paying big sums of money.

I have to ask however... why did the owner not step in and take this customers money then and there? Did the owner not want that money? Did the owner forget what his job was? was the owner to dumbstruck at somerandom guy being a better FLGS right in front of him who's only resorse was amazon prime?

What are you suggesting the store owner do in this case, temporarily lower his prices to grab this one sale? How much below his real cost should he have gone?

The thing is, someone buying a core set online is not bad for the store owner. It gets that customer over the threshold of buying into Armada, and then sets that customer up for buying the expansions from the store. The latter is something the shopkeeper would have lost if he had kicked the customer out that day. The shopkeeper is smart by remaining as welcoming as possible.

I don't know if I'd pay that much just to receive a discount when I can get a bigger discount online for free.

Well again, you have to factor in a couple things.How much does shipping cost? How much is having it right now worth to you? What other services does that game store offer you?It's not as simple as comparing prices directly, because there is added value offered at a good LGS. But everyone has to figure out how much that added value is worth, and then compare prices.

I only order stuff online when I can reach the free shipping level.

When it comes to added value, I'm of the opinion that it's part of the basic price of an item, not an extra charge just to save money somewhere down the line after I recoup that extra charge.

If you wouldn't pay 25 dollars a year to get a 25% discount on all your purchases at what I assume is a decently stocked store with tables for playing, I have to say you are a silly person. At least in that regard.

Or you just don't play many games.

Why would I pay $25 a year to get a 25% discount when I can get a 30-40% discount online for free?

What's silly is your judgement. I rarely play at game stores.

Just as a note to the topic I do belong to a Gaming Club, Ordo Fanaticus, which also has a club house with terrain and tables. It's nothing fancy but is a nice place to go for my other game of choice. But there is a $5 fee to play which is to cover rent and electricity.

$5 is not unreasonable, just ask the Brits that have the Game Clubs that have been around for awhile.

The club I game at charges £1 a night (3hrs or so of gaming). I mostly buy on-line but do pick up odds and sods from my LGS. I never play there though as I object to spending that much time in the presence of people who consider personal hygiene optional at best.

Lol

I saw a post by someone who was giving advice to new comers for gen con.

The poster made a list of things to do, see, bring etc. like number 3 on the list was shower and use deodorant! Too funny, yet sad at the same time....

While internet sales provided an alternative to this store, I really think it was merchant suicide in this case.

That is I think a far more likely case for most LGS's closing rather than the evil online retailer. LGS had the benefit of a captive audience for a long time, if you wanted 40k, or RPG books you had to go to them. There was simply no other option, and this allowed people to get away with things other stores couldn't.

Now with online ordering there's actual competition to the LGS. So people no longer have to put up with poorly run stores with little to no understanding of customer service. Instead the LGS has to adapt or die.

A LGS closing isn't always a tragedy, it may be the best thing that can happen for the gaming community, because if there's a market for it there another store is likely to open and it may be one that's better run which makes it better for everyone.

I have no doubt that online sales makes it harder for LGS, afterall a 33% discount is hard to beat. But that doesn't mean online sales is sole or even main reason for LGS to go under.

Here in the Twin Cities, there is now like 10-12 LGS, where there was 2-3 maybe 10 years ago.

What exactly is the point of this topic anyways? I think it's pretty obvious that no one is going to change their mind on the subject.

People like to argue about things everything.

What exactly is the point of this topic anyways? I think it's pretty obvious that no one is going to change their mind on the subject.

People like to argue about things everything.

no we don't

While internet sales provided an alternative to this store, I really think it was merchant suicide in this case.

That is I think a far more likely case for most LGS's closing rather than the evil online retailer. LGS had the benefit of a captive audience for a long time, if you wanted 40k, or RPG books you had to go to them. There was simply no other option, and this allowed people to get away with things other stores couldn't.Now with online ordering there's actual competition to the LGS. So people no longer have to put up with poorly run stores with little to no understanding of customer service. Instead the LGS has to adapt or die.A LGS closing isn't always a tragedy, it may be the best thing that can happen for the gaming community, because if there's a market for it there another store is likely to open and it may be one that's better run which makes it better for everyone.I have no doubt that online sales makes it harder for LGS, afterall a 33% discount is hard to beat. But that doesn't mean online sales is sole or even main reason for LGS to go under.Here in the Twin Cities, there is now like 10-12 LGS, where there was 2-3 maybe 10 years ago.

While internet sales provided an alternative to this store, I really think it was merchant suicide in this case.

That is I think a far more likely case for most LGS's closing rather than the evil online retailer. LGS had the benefit of a captive audience for a long time, if you wanted 40k, or RPG books you had to go to them. There was simply no other option, and this allowed people to get away with things other stores couldn't.Now with online ordering there's actual competition to the LGS. So people no longer have to put up with poorly run stores with little to no Here in the Twin Cities, there is now like 10-12 LGS, where there was 2-3 maybe 10 years ago.

While internet sales provided an alternative to this store, I really think it was merchant suicide in this case.

That is I think a far more likely case for most LGS's closing rather than the evil online retailer. LGS had the benefit of a captive audience for a long time, if you wanted 40k, or RPG books you had to go to them. There was simply no other option, and this allowed people to get away with things other stores couldn't.Now with online ordering there's actual competition to the LGS. So people no longer have to put up with poorly run stores with little to no understanding of customer service. Instead the LGS has to adapt or die.A LGS closing isn't always a tragedy, it may be the best thing that can happen for the gaming community, because if there's a market for it there another store is likely to open and it may be one that's better run which makes it better for everyone.I have no doubt that online sales makes it harder for LGS, afterall a 33% discount is hard to beat. But that doesn't mean online sales is sole or even main reason for LGS to go under.Here in the Twin Cities, there is now like 10-12 LGS, where there was 2-3 maybe 10 years ago.

Off topic, but are you a wild fan?

I've never really felt that there's any moral component to this argument. As far as I'm concerned it is simply a practical argument. Like any other store, if you don't spend money there, it will go away. If this dosn't trouble you, then don't worry about it. Just make sure that you consider all the ramifications.

I've never really felt that there's any moral component to this argument. As far as I'm concerned it is simply a practical argument. Like any other store, if you don't spend money there, it will go away. If this dosn't trouble you, then don't worry about it. Just make sure that you consider all the ramifications.

Yes!!!

Off topic, but are you a wild fan?

No, but I'm not a hockey fan much. I was back when we had the Northstars, but the idea of Dallas having a team and the Twin Cities not... Was just too much.

Friends of mine are though and get tickets to see the Wild play, although it's a mixed marriage. He's really a Hawks fan, and she's from Winnipeg originally so she's a Jets fan. The Wild are like the compromise team, when the other two aren't playing.

Off topic, but are you a wild fan?

No, but I'm not a hockey fan much. I was back when we had the Northstars, but the idea of Dallas having a team and the Twin Cities not... Was just too much.Friends of mine are though and get tickets to see the Wild play, although it's a mixed marriage. He's really a Hawks fan, and she's from Winnipeg originally so she's a Jets fan. The Wild are like the compromise team, when the other two aren't playing.

Ahh... Yeah, I'm from the Chicago area but now live in Kansas, ugh. Anyways, I'm a big hawks fan. Loved the rivalry between the north stars and hawks back in the day.

I've never really felt that there's any moral component to this argument. As far as I'm concerned it is simply a practical argument. Like any other store, if you don't spend money there, it will go away. If this dosn't trouble you, then don't worry about it. Just make sure that you consider all the ramifications.

Good point. I guess it depends on what you think morality is all about.

I'd say that buying all your stuff online and playing at an FLGS without buying anything from them is a form of free-riding. Your individual action - in itself - is not going to make an FLGS go under, but collective behavior along the same lines will. If everybody assumes that they can get away with free-riding, then who will support the store at whuch they game? At that point, it's a collective-action problem.

I'd say that one of the functions of morality is to solve such collective-action problems.

Hi Andre82,

Welcome to the forum!

I like my local store, but my store needs to grow with the times. I can not justify 20-30 bucks of charity when I want something like armada.

Regardless of how backwards your particular store might be, I think it's a little demeaning to call it charity. Those people work for a living.

One player kinda exited about armada was debating getting it from the store but could not justify the price. Another guy at the store offered to let him use his amazon prime account in exchange for a few bucks...

The owner could have kicked them out but this really helps no one, The owner probably just got upset at those ungratful people not willing to pay big sums of money for the privlage of paying big sums of money.

I have to ask however... why did the owner not step in and take this customers money then and there? Did the owner not want that money? Did the owner forget what his job was? was the owner to dumbstruck at somerandom guy being a better FLGS right in front of him who's only resorse was amazon prime?

What are you suggesting the store owner do in this case, temporarily lower his prices to grab this one sale? How much below his real cost should he have gone?

The thing is, someone buying a core set online is not bad for the store owner. It gets that customer over the threshold of buying into Armada, and then sets that customer up for buying the expansions from the store. The latter is something the shopkeeper would have lost if he had kicked the customer out that day. The shopkeeper is smart by remaining as welcoming as possible.

For the most part I agree with you, but two things;

1. Spending 100 bucks on an item I can get for 70 is charity. Just because I get something I like doesn't change it. You can go give to nepal right now on bungie's site and get a tshirt. It's still charity. I don't say this with intent to demean the hard working LGS clerks and owners out there, who definetely provide a valuable service to the community and work hard for their living. But if I'm taking money out of my pocket to help you out, it's charity. If it helps, I do believe in giving to charity.

2. The MSRP that most stores sell at is waaaaaay above cost. He could have cut into his margin a little for the sale if he wanted/thought to. He couls have said something like, "It's gonna cost you 70 plus whatever this guy wants for using his prime acct and you need to wait, I'll give it to you for 80 right now". He gets the sale, this customer probably feels like he's getting a deal and he becomes invested in the product line. Everyone wins except this one guy who doesn't get to ***** his amazon account. At every LGS I played with as a kid where the guys knew us, it was understood prices were negotiable. Those stores are still open 20 someodd years later because the dudes there are smart enough to take advantage of opportunities as they come.

If everybody assumes that they can get away with free-riding, then who will support the store at which they game? At that point, it's a collective-action problem.

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—

Because I was not a Socialist....

Pastor Martin Niemöller

I think you're right, if everyone simply buys online and nothing at the store then the store is likely to go under. But that doesn't mean the same thing to everyone. It also doesn't give a LGS license to do nothing to try and compete with online retailers.

Consider a LGS that doesn't have tables, only sells stuff. Do you really owe them anything? Is there really a good reason to buy at a markup simply because they're a local store?

I'd say no, and the reason I'm willing to pay MSRP at my FLGS is because of the other things they offer.

I had someone approach me at the FLGS I run the weekly drop-in from, giving me a tip that amazon had a sale on x-wing products. That was nice of him. I posted it on the Facebook group and was instantly jumped on by several members passive aggressively suggesting we should only buy from LGS.

I have zero respect for turning consumer awareness into an ethics discussion. There is absolutely nothing unethical about a consumer researching the product and making choices based on the best pricing available. How completely consumed in the bubble of rich white privilege do you have to be to think that some absurd sense of honour and loyalty should come before the consumer's monthly family budget. To suggest that a consumer is being unethical for making intelligent choices to ensure their monthly family budget doesn't break because of a stupid little hobby borders on the sociopathic, in my honest and earnest opinion.

I now feel compelled to reiterate that I run the weekly drop-in for my FLGS. I promote them, I purchase gift cards for prizing out of my own pocket in order to grow and ensure the LGS is full of eager x-wing shoppers and I do it for absolutely nothing: I get no cut, no kick back, and I'm not on staff. No discount either. None is expected, most notably. I do it because I do it. If I stop, I stop. That is my choice.

My purchases are spread based on pricing, availability, convenience, and an attempt to foster community, among several FLGS, used market, and occasionally online if the deal offsets shipping/exchange rate.

How I make my purchases, how anyone makes their purchases is absolutely none of another person's business and should not at all be subject to naive concepts of good and evil. It all comes out in the wash, I assure you.

I had someone approach me at the FLGS I run the weekly drop-in from, giving me a tip that amazon had a sale on x-wing products. That was nice of him. I posted it on the Facebook group and was instantly jumped on by several members passive aggressively suggesting we should only buy from LGS.

I have zero respect for turning consumer awareness into an ethics discussion. There is absolutely nothing unethical about a consumer researching the product and making choices based on the best pricing available. How completely consumed in the bubble of rich white privilege do you have to be to think that some absurd sense of honour and loyalty should come before the consumer's monthly family budget. To suggest that a consumer is being unethical for making intelligent choices to ensure their monthly family budget doesn't break because of a stupid little hobby borders on the sociopathic, in my honest and earnest opinion.

I now feel compelled to reiterate that I run the weekly drop-in for my FLGS. I promote them, I purchase gift cards for prizing out of my own pocket in order to grow and ensure the LGS is full of eager x-wing shoppers and I do it for absolutely nothing: I get no cut, no kick back, and I'm not on staff. No discount either. None is expected, most notably. I do it because I do it. If I stop, I stop. That is my choice.

My purchases are spread based on pricing, availability, convenience, and an attempt to foster community, among several FLGS, used market, and occasionally online if the deal offsets shipping/exchange rate.

How I make my purchases, how anyone makes their purchases is absolutely none of another person's business and should not at all be subject to naive concepts of good and evil. It all comes out in the wash, I assure you.

I had someone approach me at the FLGS I run the weekly drop-in from, giving me a tip that amazon had a sale on x-wing products. That was nice of him. I posted it on the Facebook group and was instantly jumped on by several members passive aggressively suggesting we should only buy from LGS.

I have zero respect for turning consumer awareness into an ethics discussion. There is absolutely nothing unethical about a consumer researching the product and making choices based on the best pricing available. How completely consumed in the bubble of rich white privilege do you have to be to think that some absurd sense of honour and loyalty should come before the consumer's monthly family budget. To suggest that a consumer is being unethical for making intelligent choices to ensure their monthly family budget doesn't break because of a stupid little hobby borders on the sociopathic, in my honest and earnest opinion.

I now feel compelled to reiterate that I run the weekly drop-in for my FLGS. I promote them, I purchase gift cards for prizing out of my own pocket in order to grow and ensure the LGS is full of eager x-wing shoppers and I do it for absolutely nothing: I get no cut, no kick back, and I'm not on staff. No discount either. None is expected, most notably. I do it because I do it. If I stop, I stop. That is my choice.

My purchases are spread based on pricing, availability, convenience, and an attempt to foster community, among several FLGS, used market, and occasionally online if the deal offsets shipping/exchange rate.

How I make my purchases, how anyone makes their purchases is absolutely none of another person's business and should not at all be subject to naive concepts of good and evil. It all comes out in the wash, I assure you.

And again, if everyone were like you, you wouldn't have an LGS to run events at... How is this still hard to understand? It's not about honor... Please... It's about being smart enough to see the bigger picture, than saving $2-$3...

If everyone were as involved in promoting their FLGS and the product at large online as I am, the community would be much larger.

I'm flat out telling you you're wrong.

I had someone approach me at the FLGS I run the weekly drop-in from, giving me a tip that amazon had a sale on x-wing products. That was nice of him. I posted it on the Facebook group and was instantly jumped on by several members passive aggressively suggesting we should only buy from LGS.

I have zero respect for turning consumer awareness into an ethics discussion. There is absolutely nothing unethical about a consumer researching the product and making choices based on the best pricing available. How completely consumed in the bubble of rich white privilege do you have to be to think that some absurd sense of honour and loyalty should come before the consumer's monthly family budget. To suggest that a consumer is being unethical for making intelligent choices to ensure their monthly family budget doesn't break because of a stupid little hobby borders on the sociopathic, in my honest and earnest opinion.

I now feel compelled to reiterate that I run the weekly drop-in for my FLGS. I promote them, I purchase gift cards for prizing out of my own pocket in order to grow and ensure the LGS is full of eager x-wing shoppers and I do it for absolutely nothing: I get no cut, no kick back, and I'm not on staff. No discount either. None is expected, most notably. I do it because I do it. If I stop, I stop. That is my choice.

My purchases are spread based on pricing, availability, convenience, and an attempt to foster community, among several FLGS, used market, and occasionally online if the deal offsets shipping/exchange rate.

How I make my purchases, how anyone makes their purchases is absolutely none of another person's business and should not at all be subject to naive concepts of good and evil. It all comes out in the wash, I assure you.

And again, if everyone were like you, you wouldn't have an LGS to run events at... How is this still hard to understand? It's not about honor... Please... It's about being smart enough to see the bigger picture, than saving $2-$3...

If everyone were like him, running events and bringing people into the store, we would be discussing the need to buy stuff from online retailers so people with no LGS could still buy their toys.

I'm flat out telling you you're wrong.

You're not the first and I'm guessing won't be the last to say that to him.

The idea that online retail is killing the LGS is at the least very exaggerated. I again don't doubt it's a factor, but it clearly isn't enough on it's own to close down a store.

The LGS needs to adapt to world as it is, and come up with ways to keep people buying from them rather than going online for everything. This apparently works at least in my area.

As I said we now have 15 or so gaming stores in the Twin Cities, 10 years ago or so, we had maybe 2 or 3. If online retailers were such a threat to the LGS then how could there be over 3 times as many stores now as there was back then.

The FFG event center is IMO a great example of how to run a store the right way

They have a lot space, but more importantly its very well lit, it has windows, it is clean and bright. They carry a ton of stuff there and not just FFG stuff, 40k, Warmachine, board games, ect... and they sell accessories for it all, like paint and brushes.

They have a huge library of board games you can rent for $5. They also have a kitchen and sell pop, beer and wine.

It is a successful store because they offer a ton of things that attract people there, things other than just models and such.

If everyone were like him...

FYI... bubblepopmei is a she, not a he.

First, people should stop to reply to NeverTellMeTheOdds, he was the one insulting people in the last topic which made it close.

Second,

I've never really felt that there's any moral component to this argument. As far as I'm concerned it is simply a practical argument. Like any other store, if you don't spend money there, it will go away. If this dosn't trouble you, then don't worry about it. Just make sure that you consider all the ramifications.

Personally, if the LGS close, knowing how ressourceful our community is, we would find another place to play. There is a tons of public places to play in Quebec City, the first one that come up to my mind being the university.

I had someone approach me at the FLGS I run the weekly drop-in from, giving me a tip that amazon had a sale on x-wing products. That was nice of him. I posted it on the Facebook group and was instantly jumped on by several members passive aggressively suggesting we should only buy from LGS.

I have zero respect for turning consumer awareness into an ethics discussion. There is absolutely nothing unethical about a consumer researching the product and making choices based on the best pricing available. How completely consumed in the bubble of rich white privilege do you have to be to think that some absurd sense of honour and loyalty should come before the consumer's monthly family budget. To suggest that a consumer is being unethical for making intelligent choices to ensure their monthly family budget doesn't break because of a stupid little hobby borders on the sociopathic, in my honest and earnest opinion.

I now feel compelled to reiterate that I run the weekly drop-in for my FLGS. I promote them, I purchase gift cards for prizing out of my own pocket in order to grow and ensure the LGS is full of eager x-wing shoppers and I do it for absolutely nothing: I get no cut, no kick back, and I'm not on staff. No discount either. None is expected, most notably. I do it because I do it. If I stop, I stop. That is my choice.

My purchases are spread based on pricing, availability, convenience, and an attempt to foster community, among several FLGS, used market, and occasionally online if the deal offsets shipping/exchange rate.

How I make my purchases, how anyone makes their purchases is absolutely none of another person's business and should not at all be subject to naive concepts of good and evil. It all comes out in the wash, I assure you.

And again, if everyone were like you, you wouldn't have an LGS to run events at... How is this still hard to understand? It's not about honor... Please... It's about being smart enough to see the bigger picture, than saving $2-$3...

If everyone were as involved in promoting their FLGS and the product at large online as I am, the community would be much larger.

I'm flat out telling you you're wrong.

I had someone approach me at the FLGS I run the weekly drop-in from, giving me a tip that amazon had a sale on x-wing products. That was nice of him. I posted it on the Facebook group and was instantly jumped on by several members passive aggressively suggesting we should only buy from LGS.

I have zero respect for turning consumer awareness into an ethics discussion. There is absolutely nothing unethical about a consumer researching the product and making choices based on the best pricing available. How completely consumed in the bubble of rich white privilege do you have to be to think that some absurd sense of honour and loyalty should come before the consumer's monthly family budget. To suggest that a consumer is being unethical for making intelligent choices to ensure their monthly family budget doesn't break because of a stupid little hobby borders on the sociopathic, in my honest and earnest opinion.

I now feel compelled to reiterate that I run the weekly drop-in for my FLGS. I promote them, I purchase gift cards for prizing out of my own pocket in order to grow and ensure the LGS is full of eager x-wing shoppers and I do it for absolutely nothing: I get no cut, no kick back, and I'm not on staff. No discount either. None is expected, most notably. I do it because I do it. If I stop, I stop. That is my choice.

My purchases are spread based on pricing, availability, convenience, and an attempt to foster community, among several FLGS, used market, and occasionally online if the deal offsets shipping/exchange rate.

How I make my purchases, how anyone makes their purchases is absolutely none of another person's business and should not at all be subject to naive concepts of good and evil. It all comes out in the wash, I assure you.

And again, if everyone were like you, you wouldn't have an LGS to run events at... How is this still hard to understand? It's not about honor... Please... It's about being smart enough to see the bigger picture, than saving $2-$3...

If everyone were like him, running events and bringing people into the store, we would be discussing the need to buy stuff from online retailers so people with no LGS could still buy their toys.