Tell me more! I was thinking a gaming pub would be amazing (more of a market in Portland )

I really want to hear about this cafe

The game café I was talking about is called GameHäus Board Game Café. This is their website: http://www.gamehauscafe.com . While they mostly deal with board games, last time I was visited there were some people playing X-Wing. Also, Tom Vassel paid them a visit in January and mentioned it on his podcast. When it comes to an "LGS" designed for actually hosting space to play games, this is the sort of environment I would like to see more of. FFG's hobby center near their HQ is a similar setup as well. I hope that this catches on and we see more game cafés open up in the not too distant future.

Edit: Skip to 24:12 in this video to see the segment on GameHäus Café.

See, I don't agree with this Andre. Guardian Games, which has 10,000 square feet of space is a testament that selling at MSRP works.

Do they have sales? Sometimes but those conincide with certain times of the year (Black Friday, etc). Times when people will look for things and not really have an idea of what they want.

Your friends shop could not possibly survive long. Let's look at boxes of magic. MSRP is what, $150+ on a box that is in standard these days? Stores get them for about $75-$80 (I don't buy boxes so I am ball parking based on what I know) if he sold boxes for half off, he made no money off them, compared to full price. Now if he sold them for oh $100 (what online sites charge, he is barely making any money let alone profit so that he can put back into the store for more products and such.

Now I make chain mailer (I am talking armor and jewelry chain maille) I make high quality pieces. Now, here is how I price my works.

First we have cost of my time. I am a master at quality, so you won't see gaps, nicks, etc. That is a skill worth money so I charge $11 am hour for my time.

Next we have materials cost. Rings cost on average for anodized aluminum at about a penny per ring (depending on size, since I don't work in the tiny sizes it stays at about a penny) scales for scale maille are about a nickel or so per each one.

Alright so now we have cost of my time and cost of the materials which should be everything right? Wrong, there is two more factors. You have to consider, you have to be able to reinvest into your work. So later on I may want a micro welder so my bikini sets are 100% permanent (as long as treated right), or maybe I want some high quality pliers. Now you are likely thinking "well don't you use your cost per hour for that?", if I did what would I use to pay for my food? My rent? My spending money?

So since I want to reinvest I will add a 2015%-25% Mark up of the combined total of the other two costs.

Lastly I need to pay my overhead. Where am I selling my work? How much does this booth cost to run per day, etc. Thisbis a simple thing to factor but vital. For this you decide on a number of items you think you will sell (my average after some time came out to be about 30ish sales a day on a good day) and then you divide that cost and add it to your price.

So let's take a bracelet. (Picture is not my work but an example, thi ugh honestly it is super easy to make that bracelet) The shown bracelet can be made in an hour. It will use about 155 rings and a clasp which means price wise materials is about $2 for it.

So using the explained method above the price I would sell this at would be;

11+2=13

Now 20% of 13 is 2.6 so that comes to $15.6 ($16 respectively, I hate having to deal in change)

Lastly if I make 30 sales a day and need to cover lets say the $50 it took for the space, I need to add another 1.7 ($2, no change!) To the cost so in all it is $18 for this bracelet.

https://img0.etsystatic.com/000/0/5487548/il_340x270.316704516.jpg

I think a lot of you guys are lucky that you even have the choice to support a FLGS. Seriously, I live close to what is considered the heart of wargaming (not so much FFGs style of games, more miniatures) and in the two closest cities there is one local store and two Games Workshop stores plus a place which sells largely historicals but doesn't have room for gaming. Tons of makers, Games Workshop, Warlord, Perry's etc but if you do t love GW you are stuck.

I'll be honest, when the local store opened everything was RRP , so as many have said I could not spend a lot as online here in most UK stores I can get 15-20% off with an additional booming second hand/Facebook market. However, the store has started a discount scheme so, whilst it's still not the cheapest, it is cheaper, and that's enough to grab my custom. I don't necessarily want cheapest, just a bit off.

I've also found that by going in more I'm buying more unplanned purchases from them, which is cool and hopefully means they do well.

My point of the GIANT post is simple. Should I sell something for the base price that it is made at, netting me very little profit or should I sell it at MSRP (which could be up to 50% more)? Do you know what I do? I increase the price to $25! Why? Well my work is beautiful, it makes people want it, and those people are willing to pay for thst price. They know that they will get more than their money's worth from the item. For those thst haggle, I stick to my prices. The reason why is simple. I want to make a profit exceeding what my base cost is (the $18) so that I can improve and do more things, more events, buy silver and gold fill. Game shops operate under those same principles and use MSRP to do it.

My point of the GIANT post is simple. Should I sell something for the base price that it is made at, netting me very little profit or should I sell it at MSRP (which could be up to 50% more)? Do you know what I do? I increase the price to $25! Why? Well my work is beautiful, it makes people want it, and those people are willing to pay for thst price. They know that they will get more than their money's worth from the item. For those thst haggle, I stick to my prices. The reason why is simple. I want to make a profit exceeding what my base cost is (the $18) so that I can improve and do more things, more events, buy silver and gold fill. Game shops operate under those same principles and use MSRP to do it.

Now what I think will most likely happen is that at the price point of 20-25 dollars, many impulse buyers will buy from you with little second thought. But once you get into the $70-100 priced items and your competitor is $30 or more cheaper, you'll lose a lot of sales.

So would you continue selling the chest piece for $100, selling only a couple while your competitor sells 10 or more or would you adjust prices to become more competitive?

That's where quality comes in. My bikini sets and underwear are hard to reproduce so things like the rabbit fur I use (which this is Portland so they were home grown, Fed only the best veggies, yada yada yada ;P ) the method I use to make the weight drape with out hurting one's neco all adds up. Sadly chain maille does not compare well with massed produced items due to each one no mater how simular, are such different beings.

The paint jobs on the Nebs is a great example of this.

Also chain maille has a variety of jump ring distributors (those who sell the actual rings) and of course I could make my own rings which just adds thst much more to the equation

If people bought my work while having a competitor I would be fine with that. Usually people will talk us up, they will see our love, excitement and devotion to each piece and if we are good they will feel the same. You don't get thst with the cold hard internet. You can't go back and discuss the things you love to wear thst piece with, or what would a matching earing set look like (usually leads to about a portfolio being brought out with a few dozen pictures of varying types of weaves) etc.

It's that human interaction that those who buy from me want, they want to know that what they're getting is a product of my love and care and not possibly made in China (bad example for Armada I know)

While I do appreciate your points on the differences of what you make versus someone else, do you not see the comparison I'm trying to make vis a vis board games?

Yes I do. What it boils down to is what is most important to you. Do you value savings? Do you value knowing that buying at a store could mean betterments at said store? Do you value the space or work that the online companies use or a local store?

It really is a matter of what values you have In this regards.

For me, I know Angel will use the money I spend at her store wisely. It makes my decision easier. I know that it will help make a better gaming area in all. In fact I was there when they moved last year. That was a great feeling (Angel also had a moving sale AND we got to play nerd in the store for a night. Talk about the fun. Yes I am 26.)

If I really wanted something and in could not get it at Guardian I would buy it online. However $30 is not a massive amount of savings. Sure that's a Gladiator or such but honestly I don't mind.

As I stated earlier, there are a few things I can't get at my FLGS one of those things happen to be Secret Weapon Miniatures items. I buy them from the source since no one else stocks them.

I have 3 kids, twins who are about to go into their senior year and college after that. I'm also separated and paying support.

$30 difference to me is huge right now for many reasons.

If I can get more things (games/expansions/etc) because of savings over MSRP, more things which means more fun, more gaming opportunities, more ways in which to redirect my thoughts from the bad things going on, then I'm going to go that way.

I do appreciate what the guy offers at the local game shop. But I don't value what amounts to play space at MSRP when the vast majority of my board gaming happens with friends in our respective homes when I can get the exact same product for 35-40% less than MSRP. I am part of a gaming community and play with several different groups of people, none of which were developed through or by the local game shop(edit---that's not a value statement on the shop, just stating a fact about how I met up with these groups).

You guys have a great set up out there and I'm glad it works. The one here isn't bad by any stretch, but he isn't quite as pro-active or engaging as angel seems to be. Still, whether the game shop is there or not, gaming with the several people/groups I game with will continue with or without the local game shop. I'm not being snotty about this, I'm just conveying what my experience has been and continues to be... that game shops, while nice, haven't and aren't necessary for gaming community. So I guess I don't value enough what game stores offer to pay35-40% more for the exact same product sold online. It's not the store that makes the game group fun and engaging, it's the people or to say it another way, it's not the place, it's the people.

I don't disagree that he might be acting obtuse... What I have issue is, someone who is attacking him and then turning around and saying this his, andre's posts will get him banned... I mean, really?

I know the tactic he is engaging with... it's generally used on boards like these were tattle tales can get topics locked quite quickly. The game becomes, how to insult without directly insulting and flying under the rules radar. The moderator looks, doesn't see any direct violation and does nothing, all while said poster is clearly insulting other posters in the thread that would become obvious only to those involved in the discussion. Some are definitely better at it than others.

Ouch...

Honestly how do you think I have been acting obtuse? By being Obtuse do you mean me ignoring curtain comments that I felt added little and would be derailing?

Sorry man... not trying to gang up on you. I just think that on occasion you ignored more than just a comment, but the overall point. This can be frustrating for some and with the written word, sometimes its hard for others to tell why it's being done. I'm sure you're aware that one the interwebnets, that in forum debates where things start heating up, this is often taken in a worse way than intended. I don't blame you and I think I had several posts where I called guys out for attacking you in one way or another.

The rest of what I said past being obtuse wasn't meant about you, but as I read it now, it's pretty clear that it's written that way. I apologize for that. I was thinking of another poster in this thread who is quite aggressive, both in this thread and in others and was writing about him.

Tell me more! I was thinking a gaming pub would be amazing (more of a market in Portland )

I really want to hear about this cafe

In Quebec province we have 3 of them so far. They are not cafe, but pubs (aka games and beer!). There is La Revanche in Quebec City, Randolph Pub in Montreal, Échec et Malt in Gatineau.

They are all very successful.

I do appreciate what the guy offers at the local game shop. But I don't value what amounts to play space at MSRP when the vast majority of my board gaming happens with friends in our respective homes when I can get the exact same product for 35-40% less than MSRP. I am part of a gaming community and play with several different groups of people, none of which were developed through or by the local game shop.

This.

Still, whether the game shop is there or not, gaming with the several people/groups I game with will continue with or without the local game shop. I'm not being snotty about this, I'm just conveying what my experience has been and continues to be... that game shops, while nice, haven't and aren't necessary for gaming community.

And this.

It sounds like Reiryc and I are in the same situation. The LGS is not a place in which we do our gaming, so the retail space they choose to use as a marketing tool in order to bring in extra customers means nothing to us. As such, this thread really isn't about us, since we don't use the space they offer.

If I were to use their space regularly, I would consider making my large purchases there. But as it stands right now, if they were to close tomorrow, I probably wouldn't even notice for a month or two.

Tell me more! I was thinking a gaming pub would be amazing (more of a market in Portland )

I really want to hear about this cafe

In Quebec province we have 3 of them so far. They are not cafe, but pubs (aka games and beer!). There is La Revanche in Quebec City, Randolph Pub in Montreal, Échec et Malt in Gatineau.

They are all very successful.

A Cafe is great bit some gaming is just amazing with beer and pretzels like 40k. While others, one can enjoy some sammiches and a shake (Catan, Dominion, etc)

A Cafe can lead to family games and such, but I don't think much will beat a fish and chips, beer induced game of cards against humanity

As such, this thread really isn't about us, since we don't use the space they offer.

You're right, and that's been said a number of times, but when you have 19 pages of posts it's easy to miss

The gist of the whole argument is, that if you are consuming a service at the LGS, then you should be willing to pay for that service.

The fact that it has stuff you want to buy isn't a service really, a service is table space, tournaments, leagues, terrain, a facebook page for people to connect, ect...

At my LGS for example I run a X-Wing league, there's also 40k kill team, Warmachine journeyman, and different nights for magic. The owner also has a couple facebook pages for helping people connect. Because he's offering all this to me, I feel it's in my best interest to buy stuff from him so he stays open and I keep having access to things like that.

But if you don't have a LGS that offers you anything beyond selling you stuff, then by all means buy online. If you're not getting a service from the LGS there's no reason to buy there. In fact by not buying there you may find that it puts pressure on owner to reconsider how he does things. Which could be a great benefit to everyone in your area.

Well this thread has shown to me that Myself and the others that live in my area really are very fortunate. I've been in this city over 13 years and have watch the LGS's here go from being small shops with a table or two, if you were lucky, to seeing what is most likely one of the largest Game Stores in the country. And almost all the other shops I go to are also experiencing growth. (The owners are not rich by any stretch, they are taking a good portion of their profits and reinvesting into their store.)

I know a good part of that is due to the loyalty of costumers and the number of game geeks in my area. If everyone is lucky maybe this is a trend that might spread to other parts of the country.

But all in all I do respect you guys no matter where you get your toys. This thread was just an exercise of thought of local markets for me. And honestly I got to learn more about some other members that I feel I would have never got to know.

Thanks for the discussion.

And Reiryc, have fun at the graduation next spring. It sounds like your kids will do well.

thanks beatty!

This is how amazing Angel over at Guardian is. She did not bat an eye and sent me a link with info on what it's like running a shop.

http://dsgcw.blogspot.com/2015_04_01_archive.html?m=1

This is how amazing Angel over at Guardian is. She did not bat an eye and sent me a link with info on what it's like running a shop.

http://dsgcw.blogspot.com/2015_04_01_archive.html?m=1

This is how amazing Angel over at Guardian is. She did not bat an eye and sent me a link with info on what it's like running a shop.http://dsgcw.blogspot.com/2015_04_01_archive.html?m=1

An excellent writeup, even if some kf the Cogs stuff went over my head. (I just woke up and haven't caffienated myself yet.)

As far as I get, cost of goods sold (COGS) is what it costs to acquire the goods. So they spend 52% the cost a box of MtG's MSRP.

FFG products cost about 55% of the MSRP. That is HUGE! So that $100 core set costs them about $55. There is no way they could compete with Amazon, they fall under big retail so to them a box costs about $25. I think everyone can do the math from there

I found this LGS using Google maps. It sounds amazing!

http://www.toledogameroom.com

Somehow they are able to offer below-MSRP pricing for everyone (Armada core $79 for example), offer free shipping on orders over $75, they provide a free place to play, as well as hosting organized events.

They have been in business since 1987.

Apparently, it is not impossible. They seem to be fairly successful.

If this place wasn't 80 miles away from me, I would walk in and buy my things from them - because at this point, it really is just a few dollars more than online.

If anyone lives anywhere near this place and you don't know about it yet, it sounds like it would be worth checking out.

yup Miniature market and Coolstuff both have brick and Mortar stores.

that being said most small stores don't have the time or resources to run a major online store.

my opinion...once again...if you play at a store then buy something when you play there...not everything but enough that the store recognizes you support them. Don't be that guy that walks in with every ship and you haven't spent one penny in the store you regularly play at...

If you don't play at a store this thread does not involve you.

I do both. I am vast, I contain multitudes.

I found this LGS using Google maps. It sounds amazing!

http://www.toledogameroom.com

Somehow they are able to offer below-MSRP pricing for everyone (Armada core $79 for example), offer free shipping on orders over $75, they provide a free place to play, as well as hosting organized events.

They have been in business since 1987.

Apparently, it is not impossible. They seem to be fairly successful.

Someone should really tell them they have "overhead" and "bills" and can't afford to charge Armada for $79.

Funny they even undercut my suggested price of $79 when you preorder.