Makes sense....

Can't say I'm a fan of 'semi forced wholesomeness', but glad it's working for you guys.

That guardian games place looks really nice.

But here it is - it isn't forced at all. You can go into our stores and play with your online-purchased core/expansions and no one will be the wiser. The store owner probably doesn't have the time/attention to keep track of who bought what where. She's just happy to see people in her store, and happier when people buy stuff. The fact that people who come in with their online-bought material feel a little guilty about it is because they've bought into the local Kool-Aid (the way that Beatty, Lyraeus, and I have).

Sure, we nudge that guilt a little bit, by mentioning how we're proud to buy at the store, and giving off a hint of disapproval when someone mentions that they've bought something online, but it's purely passive aggressive.

And, yes, Guardian Games is a really awesome place. I go there a lot - usually on Monday evenings. Occasionally, I'll buy paints and sleeves, and less occasionally a miniature. Mostly, my expenditures are in snacks and drinks. My slightly more favorite haunt is Red Castle Games. It's smaller, somewhat closer to me, and has pre-order and loyalty discount programs, and is open 'till midnight. It also has nicer miniature-gaming tables. It it overall better than Guardian Games? No, but Guardian Games has a larger clientele, is more accessible on public transit, and probably doesn't need me as much as Red Castle does.

By semi-forced I meant community ordinances that provide for some type of restrictions on the big box retailers being as prevalent that you had referred to.

Just lmao at the passive aggressive looks to those buying online! . I have my Chicago attitude and have no problem declaring my online purchase

Is red castle the place that apparently has in door parking?

By semi-forced I meant community ordinances that provide for some type of restrictions on the big box retailers being as prevalent that you had referred to.

Just lmao at the passive aggressive looks to those buying online! . I have my Chicago attitude and have no problem declaring my online purchase

Is red castle the place that apparently has in door parking?

I am curious why the big box retailers are not as prevalent. I suspect it's more than just local preferences without the medium-strength arm of the ordinance, but I'm not sure.

More strength to your Chicago-ness on this, but would you really do it in the middle of one of these nice FLGSs, as you're playing a game with one of us true-believers?

Yes, that's the one! Angel, the owner of Guardian Games, even donated (at least) $500 to the cause of seeing her competitor rebuild his store. I don't think you'd see behavior like that just anywhere. Certainly not in places where the value-structure leads people to buy 100% online because of the discounts.

Edit- nevermind...

By semi-forced I meant community ordinances that provide for some type of restrictions on the big box retailers being as prevalent that you had referred to.

Just lmao at the passive aggressive looks to those buying online! . I have my Chicago attitude and have no problem declaring my online purchase

Is red castle the place that apparently has in door parking?

I am curious why the big box retailers are not as prevalent. I suspect it's more than just local preferences without the medium-strength arm of the ordinance, but I'm not sure.

More strength to your Chicago-ness on this, but would you really do it in the middle of one of these nice FLGSs, as you're playing a game with one of us true-believers?

Yes, that's the one! Angel, the owner of Guardian Games, even donated (at least) $500 to the cause of seeing her competitor rebuild his store. I don't think you'd see behavior like that just anywhere. Certainly not in places where the value-structure leads people to buy 100% online because of the discounts.

Have said it... Actually was talking about where I got imperial assault and my armada preorder at the game shop that I posted the link earlier. I felt no shame and was proud of my savings but I did buy one of the expansion figure for imperial assault on that day from the shop, so I try to give them something, but it will rarely be a full priced game purchase. I've only don't that twice there. Battleship galaxies (surprisingly good, just never supported with expansions and the hobbit board game) are the only games I've bought there. Rest has been sleeves which happened last week as I bought my first ever card game (Star Wars lcg), expansions for imp assault, a couple wings of glory planes and a few xwing ships. But I also don't play there much.

You can see a game of armada being played, which was right next to me at the end of the table. It was tabletop day and all the tables were full. So we scooted over some to give them space to play, on the condition that my opponent and I could jump in and play after we finished our mission. We cleaned up and used the whole table for a few armada games before we jumped back into imperial assault.

Angel seems like a cool chick. I'm always curious what girls in gaming look like though. I want them to look like Felicia day...

Big box as in target and walmart? Actually if that is what you mean, Portland has and still does limit the amount of stores that companies like Wal-Mart are allowed to build, also the type of stores and where they can be located. The reason is because Portland's community is huge on not letting our city government let them clump up or get to big in order to let smaller mom and pop stores survive. We are HUGE on petitions in Portland and are very vocal. It's a side effect of being a college town.

I love Guardian Games and Red Castle, they are both great stores who have a loyal base because they treat their customers right.

Angel (co owner of Guardian Games) is smart on how she runs her store. She does not buy excessive amounts of high priced products.

Angel seems like a cool chick. I'm always curious what girls in gaming look like though. I want them to look like Felicia day...

Without knowing what she does in her spare time, I wouldn't call her a "gamer chick". She seems to be like a mature (though not "old") business woman who runs a tight ship. The place is very professional and well-run, and employs 4-5 people at any given hour of the day. They are black uniformed and have Secret-Service like comms in their ears.

Seems like you guys have some well run stores to go to, that's for sure.

I think the one I occasion is well run also, not up to what I'm seeing as on par with what you guys have though.

http://www.ggportland.com/community/meet-us/

Well there they are... Seems like she enjoys a game on occasion.

And since she is 5 years younger than me, I agree, she isn't old

Quinz: that looks like the guy from shut up and sit down reviews and oddly enough, has the same name.

I want them to look like Felicia day...

At the cost of being considred a chavanist, we all want that.

You can find her on facebook. Also if you really hate where you life, Portland is amazing.

I want them to look like Felicia day...

At the cost of being considred a chavanist, we all want that.

You can find her on facebook. Also if you really hate where you life, Portland is amazing.

I'm cool with the chauvinism

I'd love to move, but kids are here and I'd never leave them. So I'm pretty much stuck until my 9 yr old graduates, then maybe

Buying online to save a few bucks when you could be supporting a local community is selfish. If you're ok with that deal with it.

If it actually were just a few bucks, that would be one thing. But we're talking 30% here. That's paying almost 50% more for things.

And?

We all make thousands of dollars a year. Generally tens of thousands.

That leaves a few hundred a month to spend on passtimes for those of us that are employed full time and have disposable income.

Saving 30% by sending that money to a retailer somewhere else cuts money from other places. (And you can call it 50% more if you want. That's just twisting statistics.)

Call it twisting statistics if you want, but it's true. If something is priced at $99, and you buy it for $66, that's a 33% discount. It also means that you spending $66 at one place and spending $99 at another is a 50% increase. I know it sounds crazy, but that's how math works.

Your $100 order to miniatures market is a drop in the bucket. Your $100 dollars at the game store gives you less physical product, but everyone else more.

My $200 order to MM is a drop in their bucket, true. And if, instead, I spent $300 at LGS to get the exact same thing, they'd certainly be happy. However, I'm out an extra $100 for nothing. I can take my whole family to dinner and a movie for $100. That goes to my community also. If you have that kind of cash to throw away, more power to you, but I'd rather make my wife and kids happy instead of some people I don't know.

Net benefit the game store is better, the community within is better, and you get to make people smile. And you're making it so you have a place to play your games.

I don't understand how my purchasing games for full price at the LGS pays my mortgage, or the mortgage of my friends. Because that's where I play my games. I own a table. It keeps things off the floor. It's nice.

I don't understand why I am supposed to spend a 50% premium on my games because other people don't own a table of their own.

If other people want to pay that kind of premium for their games to support other people that don't own tables, or perhaps they don't own one, that's their business.

I want them to look like Felicia day...

At the cost of being considred a chavanist, we all want that.

You can find her on facebook. Also if you really hate where you life, Portland is amazing.

I'm cool with the chauvinism

I'd love to move, but kids are here and I'd never leave them. So I'm pretty much stuck until my 9 yr old graduates, then maybe

I want them to look like Felicia day...

At the cost of being considred a chavanist, we all want that.

You can find her on facebook. Also if you really hate where you life, Portland is amazing.

I'm cool with the chauvinism

I'd love to move, but kids are here and I'd never leave them. So I'm pretty much stuck until my 9 yr old graduates, then maybe

With Guradian track record they will likely be in a 20k Sq foot building by then

So our Meta is already still growing yearly.

I want them to look like Felicia day...

At the cost of being considred a chavanist, we all want that.

You can find her on facebook. Also if you really hate where you life, Portland is amazing.

I'm cool with the chauvinism

I'd love to move, but kids are here and I'd never leave them. So I'm pretty much stuck until my 9 yr old graduates, then maybe

With Guradian track record they will likely be in a 20k Sq foot building by then

I can see why with what they have going on.... seems like a well run ship!

I want them to look like Felicia day...

At the cost of being considred a chavanist, we all want that.

You can find her on facebook. Also if you really hate where you life, Portland is amazing.

I'm cool with the chauvinism

I'd love to move, but kids are here and I'd never leave them. So I'm pretty much stuck until my 9 yr old graduates, then maybe

With Guradian track record they will likely be in a 20k Sq foot building by then

Well they still have the second floor that is not used on a daily schedule. Then there's the fact Red Castle is about to expand too with more game tables and the owner Really likes Armada.

So our Meta is already still growing yearly.

ugh, meta...

Listen you have to listen to your conscious. LGS provide services to games to generate revenue If you do not use them and lay at home, give them a try. See if others want to play there and you now have more players.

If you store is disagreeable go elsewhere.

My store rocks

I want them to look like Felicia day...

At the cost of being considred a chavanist, we all want that.

You can find her on facebook. Also if you really hate where you life, Portland is amazing.

I'm cool with the chauvinism

I'd love to move, but kids are here and I'd never leave them. So I'm pretty much stuck until my 9 yr old graduates, then maybe

With Guradian track record they will likely be in a 20k Sq foot building by then

Well they still have the second floor that is not used on a daily schedule. Then there's the fact Red Castle is about to expand too with more game tables and the owner Really likes Armada.

So our Meta is already still growing yearly.

ugh, meta...

For me it is a simple matter of economics. If my LGS is selling an item at full MSRP that I can get online for 20% to 30% off MSRP then of course I am going to buy that item online. It just makes financal sense. I used to purchase a lot of items from my FLGS back during my Warhammer and Warmachine buying days. But since now days I am predominantly purchasing FFG stuff and other board gsmes, I buy exclusively online as the prices are much more competitive. I actually had this discussion with the owner of my FLGS and they went to great lengths about how they will always refuse to play the "discount game" and I said more power to you but I probably won't be making many purchases from you anymore. Of course I feel bad going there now and not making a purchase because I still want them to succeed, but with the cost of EVERYTHING continuing to go up while incomes stay stagnat, as a consumer you can no longer afford to be charitable. Plus, as a social gamer, I do all my gaming outside of the game store so I don't exactly feel like I am unduly taking advantage of my FLGS.

Of course I feel bad going there now and not making a purchase

As you should. Why are you even there if you don't play there?

Of course I feel bad going there now and not making a purchase

As you should. Why are you even there if you don't play there?

For me it is a simple matter of economics. If my LGS is selling an item at full MSRP that I can get online for 20% to 30% off MSRP then of course I am going to buy that item online. It just makes financal sense. I used to purchase a lot of items from my FLGS back during my Warhammer and Warmachine buying days. But since now days I am predominantly purchasing FFG stuff and other board gsmes, I buy exclusively online as the prices are much more competitive. I actually had this discussion with the owner of my FLGS and they went to great lengths about how they will always refuse to play the "discount game" and I said more power to you but I probably won't be making many purchases from you anymore. Of course I feel bad going there now and not making a purchase because I still want them to succeed, but with the cost of EVERYTHING continuing to go up while incomes stay stagnat, as a consumer you can no longer afford to be charitable. Plus, as a social gamer, I do all my gaming outside of the game store so I don't exactly feel like I am unduly taking advantage of my FLGS.

Most small LGS's will never be able to match online prices. That's not them being greedy at all but a sad fact of business, they have very different set of costs than online stores. But yet you want to play there, even after telling him you won't buy from him, and you want the best for him but don't want to be the one to help in anyway.

That is the core of our debate. We are all suffering financially more than we were before the crash. Stocks have gone up, cost of living and rent has gone up but not the average wage. But I still find ways to do what I can for my LGS because I want them around in five years and want to see them continue to grow.

If you want that too why not cut back some on the Amount you buy and pitch in some how? Would you feel alright if he charged $5 a night to use a table? Because that's the average to play at Game Clubs where they have their own tables. (I know because I belong to a Game Club too)

Of course I feel bad going there now and not making a purchase

As you should. Why are you even there if you don't play there?

Because they are the closest FLGS and sometimes I need paints. I live in Southern California which has a dearth of quality FLGSs so we have to take what we can get especially when it comes to on-demand small stuff (again, like paints). Plus, you have to realize that out here about the only games that are played in game stores are CCGs, Warhammer (and some Warmachine/Hordes) and the occasional RPG.

If players bought X-Wing and Armada from the stores themselves then I bet you that they would hold game nights and tournaments. But it sounds like people don't so is there only a small section dedicated to those games?

I think this is an example of what happens when players don't buy a game from a LGS, the LGS doesn't support that game. That's the point I have been trying to make.

Now you don't need to make every purchase at one and if you do nothing but buy paint from there without using their tables I can see your desire to buy online. But if players did by from the store I bet there would be tournaments at least.

As for CCG's and LGS's giving them special treatment you have to remember that CCG players spend way more on their game in two months than we will all year. It is the bread and butter of LGS's.

And I hear this loud and clear. It's a real catch 22. I should re-iterate that the "problem" with my FLGS besides prices (or at least the willingness to have occasional sales to clear out old stock) is that the games I would be interested in playing are not played there nor is the clientele the types that would really be interested in playing a rotating selection of games on a reoccurring basis. I would gladly pay a $5 a table fee to play there if it was worthwhile. Of course there is the real chicken and the egg problem of if I don't buy game X from my FLGS they won't stock it but how do I buy it from them if they don't stock it to being with.

Now, I did have the pleasure of visiting Gamehaüs in Glendale, CA. It's the only true game cafè in Southern California (or the entire state for that matter). There you pay $5 to play any games from their massive library (or bring your own) and you can stay all day. Plus they serve delicious food. That is the sort of "LGS" that I can get behind and support. It was an inviting environment and the other people there were willing to try new games. Unfortunately it's about 65 miles from where I live so going on a regular basis is not feasible. So yes, as a gamer I want to follow my heart and see FLGSs flourish, but as a consumer I have to go with my wallet and make "smart" purchases even at the sake of the FLGS if they are unwilling or unable to compete. It's just the nature of a free market.

And I hear this loud and clear. It's a real catch 22. I should re-iterate that the "problem" with my FLGS besides prices (or at least the willingness to have occasional sales to clear out old stock) is that the games I would be interested in playing are not played there nor is the clientele the types that would really be interested in playing a rotating selection of games on a reoccurring basis. I would gladly pay a $5 a table fee to play there if it was worthwhile. Of course there is the real chicken and the egg problem of if I don't buy game X from my FLGS they won't stock it but how do I buy it from them if they don't stock it to being with.

Now, I did have the pleasure of visiting Gamehaüs in Glendale, CA. It's the only true game cafè in Southern California (or the entire state for that matter). There you pay $5 to play any games from their massive library (or bring your own) and you can stay all day. Plus they serve delicious food. That is the sort of "LGS" that I can get behind and support. It was an inviting environment and the other people there were willing to try new games. Unfortunately it's about 65 miles from where I live so going on a regular basis is not feasible. So yes, as a gamer I want to follow my heart and see FLGSs flourish, but as a consumer I have to go with my wallet and make "smart" purchases even at the sake of the FLGS if they are unwilling or unable to compete. It's just the nature of a free market.

As for the Game Cafe I am interested. I know we talked about it here in Portland but to hear there is one that is successful makes me even more interested. What's it's name so I can look it up. It sounds fantastic.

I don't disagree that he might be acting obtuse... What I have issue is, someone who is attacking him and then turning around and saying this his, andre's posts will get him banned... I mean, really?

I know the tactic he is engaging with... it's generally used on boards like these were tattle tales can get topics locked quite quickly. The game becomes, how to insult without directly insulting and flying under the rules radar. The moderator looks, doesn't see any direct violation and does nothing, all while said poster is clearly insulting other posters in the thread that would become obvious only to those involved in the discussion. Some are definitely better at it than others.

Ouch...

Honestly how do you think I have been acting obtuse? By being Obtuse do you mean me ignoring curtain comments that I felt added little and would be derailing?

I understand that local stores have overhead. I have a pretty high class pet grooming shop run out of our remodeled garage. I was the MOD for a pretty sweet if overpriced motel, and I have worked for Walmart for over 7 years. I have also seen the inner workings of 4 LGS two fake and two real... don't ask.

The first was a long time ago. He was running a sports shop that sold MTG cards. Few people wanted the sports stuff but my friend managed to pretty much keep the store running off of the MTG sales. His competition was Ebay, Walmart, and a LGS that had been there for years and in a better location. He always said his secret to success was that it was better to sale 3 boxes of cards to the magic community and only make 1/2 profit, plus all the good will, then it is to sell one box at full profit.

So let me restate my main points.

I am a customer who hopes to see Armada take off. I really like the game and my small town looks like it has a interested community but is a little slow to invest. X-wing is still super hot right now and people are not really sure they want to pay for both.

My LGS has of right now sold 0 starter sets at the asking price of $99.99. How much money has armada made my LGS to help keep the lights on?

I know of 3 other people who have the starter set. One of them works at the store and got his at cost, one of them almost got his at the store but a X-wing player got the sale instead. One of them wants to support the store but is selfish and greedy so he got his from amazon saving himself $30 and used the money he saved to buy 2 X-wing ships from the LGS. The last guy wants to support the store but is not giving the store $30 just to support the store.

Many of you see a bunch of greedy people taking advantage of this store.

I see a store that is missing sales and might very well kill Armada before it gets a chance.

If I had been running the store I would have offered the starter at $79 when you preorder anything from wave 1.

Honestly anyone here think this is a worse idea then offering the starter at $99?