I used to buy exclusively from my LGS, and never compared prices vs online stores...and I was a pretty good customer too +-150$/month purchases

However when the X-Wing wave 1 was hard to find , they played the "rarity" game & jacked their prices up to 19.99$ per expansion pack instead of keeping them as MRSP ....

I stared looking for online alternatives , found them @ cheaper prices , and since then havent purchased much from my

LGS....

I used to buy exclusively from my LGS, and never compared prices vs online stores...and I was a pretty good customer too +-150$/month purchases

However when the X-Wing wave 1 was hard to find , they played the "rarity" game & jacked their prices up to 19.99$ per expansion pack instead of keeping them as MRSP ....

I stared looking for online alternatives , found them @ cheaper prices , and since then havent purchased much from my

LGS....

Luckily most LGS's will never do this (first time I heard one pulling that.) so I wouldn't support a shop doing that either. Yours is an unique situation and I would have done the same in that case. That is an owner gouging his customers by using a situation to his advantage. Unethical as crap. Dump that LGS like a bad habit.

Hopefully you have another LGS or place to play. I have to remind myself that most people don't have the 5-6 LGS's in their area to choose from.

Andre, you are purposely being obtuse. Your playing a form of devils advocate and it makes you look the fool.

So do this, stop picking bits and pieces of what you want to read and actually read. Then once you do that leave the discussion before your insults and attacks gets you banned.

To be honest with you, the majority of attacks I've noticed have been against Andre, not from Andre....

They have ranged from calling him dense, saying he is purposefully being obtuse, questioning his age with the intent to say he is immature, saying he is looking like a fool and saying he doesn't even have a valid viewpoint....

I agree that some (who are friends of mine) have thrown some insults at Andre82, and they might show some self-restraint. I also have not seen Andre82 say anything that would get him banned.

However, I would say that Lyraeus is probably correct that Andre82 is being purposefully obtuse. Being purposefully obtuse is a debating tactic, not evidence of any personal deficiency other than using a really annoying debating tactic. Unless it is done in a devil's advocate sort of manner, to help someone else think a manner through, it also borders on trolling in my mind, but I don't think that an FFG moderator would bust him on it.

The idea that money must stay local to help local is often false and misleading. The idea that local money vanishes harkens back to the days of nations imposing tariffs or out and out trade bans has been shown to historically not work and be bad for economies (as a general principle, certain instances it may help). One needs only look at napoleon's continental system or our own colonial (pre USA) trade system dictating where sugar can and can't be purchased and so on to see the failures of the ideas that money must be kept local in order succeed locally.

You're right that in order to stay local money must not necessarily stay local. But it sure is a lot more likely to stay local if it is spent locally at a locally owned business (rather than, for example, a multinational corporation).

While money does circulate, as you suggest, there are also structural net-trade balances. It's hard to look up what they might be state-to-state. Someone probably does collect that data, but I'm not sure off the top of my Google which institution does that. But, some states will have an interstate commerce balance that is negative and others will have one that is positive. Having those net-imbalances grow too large is not healthy for our economy without large compensating transfers organized by the Federal government. (See the Eurozone for an example of how this can go awry in a single-currency zone without the scale of transfers necessary.)

Anyway, that's probably not the level of discussion that we're trying to have. My point is: the circulation of buying and selling is not a level playing field, and what leaves does not necessarily come back, except by way of the Federal Government, and then through social security or the pork-barrel congressional spending process. So if you want to have your locality thrive in a more wholesome way, spending locally is a way you can help that happen. I'm not sure if buying plastic toys from Minnesota/China is the ideal way to do that, but buying from your FLGS will certainly do that over and above an online retailer.

The most we can do is buy there or not, and deal with the effect that decision has.

Well I did let Andre push me some but he is bordering on full Troll here and that is why I will not engage him or read his posts. He is purposely turning this discussion into an argument by taking the most extreme examples as his base then selectivity taking other posts out of context. On top of this he does not directly answer any questions others give to him and instead deflects them by again taking what you said and twisting it.

He is not interested in adding anything to the full discussion and just wants to Win and is doing way more than playing Devils Advocate. His usage of charged words is also used to provoke raw emotions in others that do not need to be used.

Now I am not perfect at all and can let some get to me and I may fall into their trap of escalating the war of words. So I admit I did go too far in some of my posts as a retort to his aggressive style of argument.

You are way more diplomatic then him Reiryc and I respect that but I have no interest in engaging in someone like him.

Mikael wrote:

I agree that some (who are friends of mine) have thrown some insults at Andre82, and they might show some self-restraint. I also have not seen Andre82 say anything that would get him banned.

However, I would say that Lyraeus is probably correct that Andre82 is being purposefully obtuse. Being purposefully obtuse is a debating tactic, not evidence of any personal deficiency other than using a really annoying debating tactic. Unless it is done in a devil's advocate sort of manner, to help someone else think a manner through, it also borders on trolling in my mind, but I don't think that an FFG moderator would bust him on it.

Yes and no... Let's remember that said shop owner is probably, like the rest of us, going to shop at walmart, at target, at an international gas station, at a movie theater subsidizing out of state movie production, etc etc...

In addition, I'd even argue that its likely that the warehouse workers might even make a smidge more per hour than the flgs store clerk.

While I'm not saying that spending local is useless, I think a bit too much if made of it in these days when the majority of the products we buy are sold by international corporations and made overseas. I'm also not sure the trade imbalance between states is significant enough to merit a damaging effect on one state over another unlike what's going on with the trade imbalance between the US and china for example. I do agree that what goes out isn't guaranteed to come back. But I also don't care if it does and it wasn't my point. (I hope that doesn't come off as sarcastic, it's not meant to be by any means)... My point was more to argue against this protectionist notion that economy suffers if one doesn't "buy local".... that it's much more complex than that and isn't really a good argument to say, "shop at your local flgs because it supports the local economy!"

On another note:

I have netflix and have heard of a show called Portlandia. I'd never watched it before for whatever reason and none in particular. However, after talking with you, beatty and lyraeus here, I decided to give it a watch to see what it was like. Quite amusing, but probably not going to keep watching it as the format just isn't my thing. I often wondered if you guys saw it and were also a bit "different" in ways they are spoofing. The first episode had the 2 at a local restaurant where the waitress had a "file" on the chicken they were about to order...where it was raised, it's name, what it was fed and how 'organice' it was... lol! . Got a kick out of the first episode and what the shows creators were spoofing and yet it's clear they also like those aspects about Portland. The girl, 1 of the shows creators, carrie brownstein, even lives there.

Have you watched it and while clearly satire, are there things in the show that speak truth to what it's like there?

I buy from CSI, Cardhaus, and Miniature Market almost exclusively. Those places are local to people that live in St. Louis, Orlando, and New Albany. So, in essence, I suppose I'm supporting someone's LGS. To them, I say, "You're welcome."

There are three game stores that I would consider local to me. They all have tables set up for play. There always seem to be people in there using those tables.

I cannot, for the life of me, figure out why.

Do people not understand that there are stores that sell tables? Ikea, Art Van, Meijer, Value City, Sears, and many more.

With what you save from buying Armada core and a few Wave 1 ships, you could own your own table. Then all additional purchases just save you 30%+.

I've owned a table for decades now, and it still works well, dutifully keeping my games off the floor. My friends all own tables as well. Tables can be used for many things other than gaming, for instance, you could eat a meal on one.

My friends and I have never (in 35 years of gaming) felt the need to migrate to some location other than one of our houses/apartments/whatever. We would rather be in the comfort of our own homes, with amenities that many game stores could never provide.

Comfortable seating, clean bathroom, TV, fully stocked fridge, kitchen, home-cooked meals, 24/7 access for marathon games, beer fridge, freedom to be really loud if we want, freedom from other people being too loud, and many more.

DISCLAIMER: Although true, this post is very tongue-in-cheek.

P.S. Sir Not - Fantastic post!

I feel that an LGS should charge what they want/need to charge. If they feel they can recoup some of their costs by charging for table usage, then they have every right to do that. Of course, the caveat to that is if the store down the street doesn't, then they will likely lose players. It's a very complicated balancing act, choosing when to charge MSRP and when to give a discount. What to charge for, what to give away as advertisement.

There is no right answer, as it's based upon local competition (if any), local clientele’s willingness to pay, the area's affluence (see previous), and many other things.

Personally, I like stores that offer a "frequent flyer" program, and if any of my local stores did that, I would likely pay a little bit more to buy from them. As I buy more from a store, I could build up a discount level, say 10-15% max. I'd pay that. Someone mentioned 25% off for $25 a year - I'd be all over that.

However, as far as I know, none of my 3 LGS have any kind of loyalty discount program, selling everything at MSRP. Period. I budget a few hundred a month on games*, and I'm going to get a good deal, even if local stores aren't willing to give me one.

* - This month, I bought Descent. All of it (core, conv kit, and expansions - no Lt or H&M).

CSI saved me a hundred dollars.

$228 delivered to my door vs $339 from LGS

On top of this, the LGS didn't have all of the expansions in stock and would have to order them for me anyway.

Andre, you are purposely being obtuse. Your playing a form of devils advocate and it makes you look the fool.

So do this, stop picking bits and pieces of what you want to read and actually read. Then once you do that leave the discussion before your insults and attacks gets you banned.

To be honest with you, the majority of attacks I've noticed have been against Andre, not from Andre....

They have ranged from calling him dense, saying he is purposefully being obtuse, questioning his age with the intent to say he is immature, saying he is looking like a fool and saying he doesn't even have a valid viewpoint....

I agree that some (who are friends of mine) have thrown some insults at Andre82, and they might show some self-restraint. I also have not seen Andre82 say anything that would get him banned.

However, I would say that Lyraeus is probably correct that Andre82 is being purposefully obtuse. Being purposefully obtuse is a debating tactic, not evidence of any personal deficiency other than using a really annoying debating tactic. Unless it is done in a devil's advocate sort of manner, to help someone else think a manner through, it also borders on trolling in my mind, but I don't think that an FFG moderator would bust him on it.

The idea that money must stay local to help local is often false and misleading. The idea that local money vanishes harkens back to the days of nations imposing tariffs or out and out trade bans has been shown to historically not work and be bad for economies (as a general principle, certain instances it may help). One needs only look at napoleon's continental system or our own colonial (pre USA) trade system dictating where sugar can and can't be purchased and so on to see the failures of the ideas that money must be kept local in order succeed locally.

You're right that in order to stay local money must not necessarily stay local. But it sure is a lot more likely to stay local if it is spent locally at a locally owned business (rather than, for example, a multinational corporation).

While money does circulate, as you suggest, there are also structural net-trade balances. It's hard to look up what they might be state-to-state. Someone probably does collect that data, but I'm not sure off the top of my Google which institution does that. But, some states will have an interstate commerce balance that is negative and others will have one that is positive. Having those net-imbalances grow too large is not healthy for our economy without large compensating transfers organized by the Federal government. (See the Eurozone for an example of how this can go awry in a single-currency zone without the scale of transfers necessary.)

Anyway, that's probably not the level of discussion that we're trying to have. My point is: the circulation of buying and selling is not a level playing field, and what leaves does not necessarily come back, except by way of the Federal Government, and then through social security or the pork-barrel congressional spending process. So if you want to have your locality thrive in a more wholesome way, spending locally is a way you can help that happen. I'm not sure if buying plastic toys from Minnesota/China is the ideal way to do that, but buying from your FLGS will certainly do that over and above an online retailer.

To the guy above. Very few people live on the border of a state. You have to cross the freaking Mississipi to get to your LGS. That is not a typical situation. Using it as an example is... disingenuous. Most of us frequently use the towns are LGS are in. Thus we benefit from their tax dollars.

And I'm not talking about Sales Tax. I'm talking about taxes in general. State taxes are allocated back to the places they come from(including State Sales Tax(I make the distinction because I'm familiar with the Lambeau Field Sales Tax)

In the end it's about how you choose to look at it. People that want to look at MSRP is a rip off buy online. People that want to support their game stores(the people who understand being socially concious) buy from the local store at every opportunity.

Buying online to save a few bucks when you could be supporting a local community is selfish. If you're ok with that deal with it.

But if that discount is the difference between playing and not playing, perhaps you shouldn't be playing.

Wow, this thread just continues on.

Well I did let Andre push me some but he is bordering on full Troll here and that is why I will not engage him or read his posts. He is purposely turning this discussion into an argument by taking the most extreme examples as his base then selectivity taking other posts out of context. On top of this he does not directly answer any questions others give to him and instead deflects them by again taking what you said and twisting it.

He is not interested in adding anything to the full discussion and just wants to Win and is doing way more than playing Devils Advocate. His usage of charged words is also used to provoke raw emotions in others that do not need to be used.

Now I am not perfect at all and can let some get to me and I may fall into their trap of escalating the war of words. So I admit I did go too far in some of my posts as a retort to his aggressive style of argument.

You are way more diplomatic then him Reiryc and I respect that but I have no interest in engaging in someone like him.

I get what you're feeling brother beatty... I think there is another poster earlier in this thread who was like that. I used to be much less diplomatic when I would post on forums. I had been on political forums for over a decade. Point, counter point, frame the argument in ways that fly below the moderators/boards rules but clearly trading insults with other posters and so on. It was a game of "gotcha" and dueling google posts between one side and the other. Who could google up the most supportive news articles or studies from a reasonably respected news source and so on would get temporary 'wins'.

Then my mom passed away unexpectedly and I had a good look at what I was and wasn't doing in my life. In the online world, I gave up such posting and haven't looked back for going on 6 years now. I'm happier, less frustrated, if less informed than I used to be. I still read news articles with that critical eye, but I don't let these things get to me like they once did.

I board game more than I used to and expanded my interests. I learned how to sail last fall/late summer. Great experience and will try to continue with that. Anyways, point is, try not to let the posts get to you. You don't have to ignore threads or posters, just looking at something like it is less personal or a grudge match and more like, "what evah!" It's helped me a lot.

A good argument is always fun. Getting insulted by a good argument is not.

Exactly.

To the guy above. Very few people live on the border of a state. You have to cross the freaking Mississipi to get to your LGS. That is not a typical situation. Using it as an example is... disingenuous. Most of us frequently use the towns are LGS are in. Thus we benefit from their tax dollars.

And I'm not talking about Sales Tax. I'm talking about taxes in general. State taxes are allocated back to the places they come from(including State Sales Tax(I make the distinction because I'm familiar with the Lambeau Field Sales Tax)

In the end it's about how you choose to look at it. People that want to look at MSRP is a rip off buy online. People that want to support their game stores(the people who understand being socially concious) buy from the local store at every opportunity.

Buying online to save a few bucks when you could be supporting a local community is selfish. If you're ok with that deal with it.

But if that discount is the difference between playing and not playing, perhaps you shouldn't be playing.

Selfish and not socially conscious because someone is buying online instead of the FLGS?

To the guy above. Very few people live on the border of a state. You have to cross the freaking Mississipi to get to your LGS.

No actually I don't, but there are in fact a Lot of people who live in areas where the LGS is in another state or at least another county. Using my situation is far from disingenuous, because it is my situation. The fact that it may not be the most common doesn't change a thing.

But if that discount is the difference between playing and not playing, perhaps you shouldn't be playing.

That would only be true, if that person was making use of the LGS' services, and not paying anything for them.

Even if they buy little at the LGS, they are themselves a service the LGS offers because they allow other people to play games with them.

Myself I'm getting really sick and tired of this black and white BS.

That somehow, it has to be 100% one way or another. That the only cases that count are the people who happen to live within 10 miles of 3-5 LGS'. That everyone plays 100% of their games in a LGS, and never plays at home or other locations.

Also anyone who claims buying 100% local is the only way of being socially conscious... Actually, I do know how to respond, because when someone starts calling someone selfish for trying to save a few bucks... Then that's a person I no longer wish to interact with.

Secondly, at 249.99 it is not worth stocking the item. Why would I invest $225 (cost plus shipping to the store from the distributer) to make $25? Does that make ANY sort of business sense to you?

lol yah it makes good business sense if you want to make $25 bucks. You said your LGS went under... wonder why =p

Listen I understand what you are saying about risk... but the damage was done remember? you had to Ebay the **** things or whatever it was you did.

So here I am. I got $250 in hand and I want your toy. Do you wan't my money or did you just really like Ebaying things?

There is a world of difference between dead stock and new product. If you came in and offered me $250 for a 2 year old statue that I am sitting on a pile of, of course, I'll take that money. That's not pertinent here as Armada is a brand spanking new game on the market. Its one thing to ask a small retail shop to hold occasional sales. Its another altogether to demand that they consistently price everything below MSRP. I marked product down on a schedule and it was based on the popularity of the product, quantities on hand and my cost. I gave discounts to my regular customers as well. You show me loyalty, I'll show the same to you.

And had you read my original post, you would see that I ran a collectibles store, not a game store.

Buying online to save a few bucks when you could be supporting a local community is selfish. If you're ok with that deal with it.

If it actually were just a few bucks, that would be one thing. But we're talking 30% here. That's paying almost 50% more for things.

I think the crux of the aguement from my side is that LGSs should not be using table space as thier only "hook" to get feet in the door and that's all it is a numbers game. If table space hook were 100% effective, we would not be having this conversation but there are stores that use table space as thier only hook and those stores are asking for trouble.

Optimisticly the table space offer is 50% effective (some areas probably much less) so we will say that on any given night half the crowd using the tables buys something of value (more than just sleeves, food and/or drink). If that is not enough to support the store than another "hook" needs to be deployed, it doesn't have to just discounts/sale day. I know many of my local stores have tons of unused prize support why not have a promotion "Buy X amount of related products and get free promo with purchase." They have already paid for them anyway why not use them to get people in the door and maybe actually hold a few tounaments so it isn't a complete waste? Why not have a Star Wars themed sale on May 4th instead of just a game day (which is just a rewording of the table space hook)? I believe that the store should be employing more to help me justify (to the wife and my wallet) why spending 100 plus dollars at that store a month is worth it and for me a set of rickety tables is not enough.

So here I am. I got $250 in hand and I want your toy. Do you wan't my money or did you just really like Ebaying things?

If there's a line of people standing behind you, each with $300 in their hand, I'll ask you to step aside.

If no one has so much as looked at the thing in over a year, and it's just collecting dust, we'll talk.

Well I did let Andre push me some but he is bordering on full Troll here and that is why I will not engage him or read his posts. He is purposely turning this discussion into an argument by taking the most extreme examples as his base then selectivity taking other posts out of context. On top of this he does not directly answer any questions others give to him and instead deflects them by again taking what you said and twisting it.

He is not interested in adding anything to the full discussion and just wants to Win and is doing way more than playing Devils Advocate. His usage of charged words is also used to provoke raw emotions in others that do not need to be used.

Now I am not perfect at all and can let some get to me and I may fall into their trap of escalating the war of words. So I admit I did go too far in some of my posts as a retort to his aggressive style of argument.

You are way more diplomatic then him Reiryc and I respect that but I have no interest in engaging in someone like him.

I get what you're feeling brother beatty... I think there is another poster earlier in this thread who was like that. I used to be much less diplomatic when I would post on forums. I had been on political forums for over a decade. Point, counter point, frame the argument in ways that fly below the moderators/boards rules but clearly trading insults with other posters and so on. It was a game of "gotcha" and dueling google posts between one side and the other. Who could google up the most supportive news articles or studies from a reasonably respected news source and so on would get temporary 'wins'.

Then my mom passed away unexpectedly and I had a good look at what I was and wasn't doing in my life. In the online world, I gave up such posting and haven't looked back for going on 6 years now. I'm happier, less frustrated, if less informed than I used to be. I still read news articles with that critical eye, but I don't let these things get to me like they once did.

I board game more than I used to and expanded my interests. I learned how to sail last fall/late summer. Great experience and will try to continue with that. Anyways, point is, try not to let the posts get to you. You don't have to ignore threads or posters, just looking at something like it is less personal or a grudge match and more like, "what evah!" It's helped me a lot.

Well I deal do deal with issue I do not post here in my real life but I am going to try harder not to let people get to me. As you were saying, it's not worth it.

On the note of Portland when I moved here I thought I was very left leaning because where I moved from was Very conservative. Well after getting here I realized I am more centralist than Left Wing and find Portlandia funny because I do see people like them. Spoofed, yes but not as much as you would expect. But at least those people are more funny and ridiculous than threatening.

I would suspect if you came to out local game stores you will fall in love with the Geek Community out here. It's pretty large and the vast majority of players are great guys.

Secondly, at 249.99 it is not worth stocking the item. Why would I invest $225 (cost plus shipping to the store from the distributer) to make $25? Does that make ANY sort of business sense to you?

lol yah it makes good business sense if you want to make $25 bucks. You said your LGS went under... wonder why =p

Listen I understand what you are saying about risk... but the damage was done remember? you had to Ebay the **** things or whatever it was you did.

So here I am. I got $250 in hand and I want your toy. Do you wan't my money or did you just really like Ebaying things?

There is a world of difference between dead stock and new product. If you came in and offered me $250 for a 2 year old statue that I am sitting on a pile of, of course, I'll take that money. That's not pertinent here as Armada is a brand spanking new game on the market. Its one thing to ask a small retail shop to hold occasional sales. Its another altogether to demand that they consistently price everything below MSRP. I marked product down on a schedule and it was based on the popularity of the product, quantities on hand and my cost. I gave discounts to my regular customers as well. You show me loyalty, I'll show the same to you.

And had you read my original post, you would see that I ran a collectibles store, not a game store.

"You see that toy that other store is selling at 15$? I can sell you one too at 15$ and I will even lets you use my tables (so other customers can see it played and kinda gives me free advertising), but only if you first buy 10 of them at 20$. Sound like a deal right?"

Well I did let Andre push me some but he is bordering on full Troll here and that is why I will not engage him or read his posts. He is purposely turning this discussion into an argument by taking the most extreme examples as his base then selectivity taking other posts out of context. On top of this he does not directly answer any questions others give to him and instead deflects them by again taking what you said and twisting it.

He is not interested in adding anything to the full discussion and just wants to Win and is doing way more than playing Devils Advocate. His usage of charged words is also used to provoke raw emotions in others that do not need to be used.

Now I am not perfect at all and can let some get to me and I may fall into their trap of escalating the war of words. So I admit I did go too far in some of my posts as a retort to his aggressive style of argument.

You are way more diplomatic then him Reiryc and I respect that but I have no interest in engaging in someone like him.

I get what you're feeling brother beatty... I think there is another poster earlier in this thread who was like that. I used to be much less diplomatic when I would post on forums. I had been on political forums for over a decade. Point, counter point, frame the argument in ways that fly below the moderators/boards rules but clearly trading insults with other posters and so on. It was a game of "gotcha" and dueling google posts between one side and the other. Who could google up the most supportive news articles or studies from a reasonably respected news source and so on would get temporary 'wins'.

Then my mom passed away unexpectedly and I had a good look at what I was and wasn't doing in my life. In the online world, I gave up such posting and haven't looked back for going on 6 years now. I'm happier, less frustrated, if less informed than I used to be. I still read news articles with that critical eye, but I don't let these things get to me like they once did.

I board game more than I used to and expanded my interests. I learned how to sail last fall/late summer. Great experience and will try to continue with that. Anyways, point is, try not to let the posts get to you. You don't have to ignore threads or posters, just looking at something like it is less personal or a grudge match and more like, "what evah!" It's helped me a lot.

Well I deal do deal with issue I do not post here in my real life but I am going to try harder not to let people get to me. As you were saying, it's not worth it.

On the note of Portland when I moved here I thought I was very left leaning because where I moved from was Very conservative. Well after getting here I realized I am more centralist than Left Wing and find Portlandia funny because I do see people like them. Spoofed, yes but not as much as you would expect. But at least those people are more funny and ridiculous than threatening.

I would suspect if you came to out local game stores you will fall in love with the Geek Community out here. It's pretty large and the vast majority of players are great guys.

I bet I'd love to play some armada or imperial assault with you guys out there... would be pretty fun!

Sounds like you guys have a good group of gamers. There is a good group here too, but a little less extroverted I think than what I had seen in other places I've lived. It's not bad, just different.

I find it amusing that you ended up confirming my suspicions about portland based on Portlandia. Definitely tongue in cheek show, but not as much as one might thing... too funny!

To the guy above. Very few people live on the border of a state. You have to cross the freaking Mississipi to get to your LGS.

No actually I don't, but there are in fact a Lot of people who live in areas where the LGS is in another state or at least another county. Using my situation is far from disingenuous, because it is my situation. The fact that it may not be the most common doesn't change a thing.

But if that discount is the difference between playing and not playing, perhaps you shouldn't be playing.

That would only be true, if that person was making use of the LGS' services, and not paying anything for them.

Even if they buy little at the LGS, they are themselves a service the LGS offers because they allow other people to play games with them.

Myself I'm getting really sick and tired of this black and white BS.

That somehow, it has to be 100% one way or another. That the only cases that count are the people who happen to live within 10 miles of 3-5 LGS'. That everyone plays 100% of their games in a LGS, and never plays at home or other locations.

Also anyone who claims buying 100% local is the only way of being socially conscious... Actually, I do know how to respond, because when someone starts calling someone selfish for trying to save a few bucks... Then that's a person I no longer wish to interact with.

I agree with you 100% that this should not be a Black or White subject.

If you don't play at a store and don't like the owner why buy there? If you buy the Core Set online but purchase your expansion packs from the store you game at you are absolutely supporting that store. If the store is gouging the costumers by over charging because expansions are hard to find I would stay away from them.

This is not an overall should you support your LGS with all your purchases just because they are there, it's a support the LGS's that support your hobby if you good there for games. And it doesn't need to be all your purchases to be a good costumer, just here and there is great.

I guess that is where I stand, but I forget too not everyone is lucky enough to have Game Stores like the ones we have here in Portland.

Buying online to save a few bucks when you could be supporting a local community is selfish. If you're ok with that deal with it.

If it actually were just a few bucks, that would be one thing. But we're talking 30% here. That's paying almost 50% more for things.

We all make thousands of dollars a year. Generally tens of thousands.

That leaves a few hundred a month to spend on passtimes for those of us that are employed full time and have disposable income.

Saving 30% by sending that money to a retailer somewhere else cuts money from other places. (And you can call it 50% more if you want. That's just twisting statistics.)

Your $100 order to miniatures market is a drop in the bucket. Your $100 dollars at the game store gives you less physical product, but everyone else more. Net benefit the game store is better, the community within is better, and you get to make people smile. And you're making it so you have a place to play your games.

In the end topics like this come off as one side justifying their actions while another expresses that the justifications are just that. Justifications.

At least for FFG the products are worth the MSRP. So why is it so wrong to pay what a product is worth?

Support your community. Support products you like. Use your money to speak for what you care about. And if what you care about is your wallet... Well. There's more to life. Buying local is a small price to pay for what you get. I'm sure I won't see you at the game store often anyway.

Well I did let Andre push me some but he is bordering on full Troll here and that is why I will not engage him or read his posts. He is purposely turning this discussion into an argument by taking the most extreme examples as his base then selectivity taking other posts out of context. On top of this he does not directly answer any questions others give to him and instead deflects them by again taking what you said and twisting it.

He is not interested in adding anything to the full discussion and just wants to Win and is doing way more than playing Devils Advocate. His usage of charged words is also used to provoke raw emotions in others that do not need to be used.

Now I am not perfect at all and can let some get to me and I may fall into their trap of escalating the war of words. So I admit I did go too far in some of my posts as a retort to his aggressive style of argument.

You are way more diplomatic then him Reiryc and I respect that but I have no interest in engaging in someone like him.

I get what you're feeling brother beatty... I think there is another poster earlier in this thread who was like that. I used to be much less diplomatic when I would post on forums. I had been on political forums for over a decade. Point, counter point, frame the argument in ways that fly below the moderators/boards rules but clearly trading insults with other posters and so on. It was a game of "gotcha" and dueling google posts between one side and the other. Who could google up the most supportive news articles or studies from a reasonably respected news source and so on would get temporary 'wins'.

Then my mom passed away unexpectedly and I had a good look at what I was and wasn't doing in my life. In the online world, I gave up such posting and haven't looked back for going on 6 years now. I'm happier, less frustrated, if less informed than I used to be. I still read news articles with that critical eye, but I don't let these things get to me like they once did.

I board game more than I used to and expanded my interests. I learned how to sail last fall/late summer. Great experience and will try to continue with that. Anyways, point is, try not to let the posts get to you. You don't have to ignore threads or posters, just looking at something like it is less personal or a grudge match and more like, "what evah!" It's helped me a lot.

Well I deal do deal with issue I do not post here in my real life but I am going to try harder not to let people get to me. As you were saying, it's not worth it.

On the note of Portland when I moved here I thought I was very left leaning because where I moved from was Very conservative. Well after getting here I realized I am more centralist than Left Wing and find Portlandia funny because I do see people like them. Spoofed, yes but not as much as you would expect. But at least those people are more funny and ridiculous than threatening.

I would suspect if you came to out local game stores you will fall in love with the Geek Community out here. It's pretty large and the vast majority of players are great guys.

I bet I'd love to play some armada or imperial assault with you guys out there... would be pretty fun!

Sounds like you guys have a good group of gamers. There is a good group here too, but a little less extroverted I think than what I had seen in other places I've lived. It's not bad, just different.

I find it amusing that you ended up confirming my suspicions about portland based on Portlandia. Definitely tongue in cheek show, but not as much as one might thing... too funny!

I currently work for a great local grocery store, even though I have my BS (I know, but I will correct that. Life you know. But because of my store's fantastic Health Insurance I saved over $75,000 last year on my son's surgery on his ear. It has paid off.), but If I hear one more pseudoscience explanation about Gluten I am going to scream. I am really hating people who think they are an expert when they read one article even though I went through Years of college that touched on that very topic.

But I just smile and give them good service anyways.

I agree with you 100% that this should not be a Black or White subject.

To be fair you haven't ever presented as such.

it's a support the LGS's that support your hobby if you good there for games.

I'm all for supporting the LGS that you play at. I'd even say that if you go to a different one to play a tournament at, picking something up is a nice way to thank the owner for hosting the tournament.

LGS' can offer a lot of services that they don't directly charge for, but how much those services are worth is very variable. For some people they're worth a great deal, to others not much if anything. But at the same time we as members of the gaming community can offer a service to the game store itself. By hosting leagues, or Tournaments, being a judge or just hanging out there so someone has a game to play.

Supporting the LGS involves more than just spending money there.

What started this whole thread was my comment that I was tired of the kneejerk reaction some people have to anyone who buys online.

That anyone who does so is subject to judgement and name calling, because they have failed to support their LGS. Partly because there's this assumption everyone has a game store that is both local and actually worth going to.

There's posts in this thread that are prime examples, where people are called selfish for not buying everything at the LGS, and even goes as far as to say they shouldn't be playing the game at all.

This completely disregards just about everything that might be different from someone else's situation, but apparently the only situation we should consider is those who have 3-5 LGS within 15 miles of their houses...

Anyone who lives further away and seldom gets to a game store, or has one local but is unfriendly/poorly run. Anyone who plays at home. Anyone who buys stuff from the LGS but not everything... All those people are being disingenuous by pointing out their situation because they simply don't count.

I'm frankly done with this thread, I had hoped we could avoid things like name calling and the like but apparently not, and instead is veering sharply in the direction of SJW.

So once again I'll put in the bottom line for me.

The most we can do is buy there or not, and deal with the effect that decision has, if any. Because if your LGS closed because no one is shopping there, then that is as much your fault as anyone else's. It's a bit like voting... If you don't vote you don't get to complain about the government.

However that doesn't mean every or even many stores that do close have done so because of selfish people buying online, they may close because the customer base in that area is too small to support the store, it is after all a niche market. Or maybe the owner just doesn't have a clue, in which case maybe someone who does will open one up.

Well I did let Andre push me some but he is bordering on full Troll here and that is why I will not engage him or read his posts. He is purposely turning this discussion into an argument by taking the most extreme examples as his base then selectivity taking other posts out of context. On top of this he does not directly answer any questions others give to him and instead deflects them by again taking what you said and twisting it.

He is not interested in adding anything to the full discussion and just wants to Win and is doing way more than playing Devils Advocate. His usage of charged words is also used to provoke raw emotions in others that do not need to be used.

Now I am not perfect at all and can let some get to me and I may fall into their trap of escalating the war of words. So I admit I did go too far in some of my posts as a retort to his aggressive style of argument.

You are way more diplomatic then him Reiryc and I respect that but I have no interest in engaging in someone like him.

I get what you're feeling brother beatty... I think there is another poster earlier in this thread who was like that. I used to be much less diplomatic when I would post on forums. I had been on political forums for over a decade. Point, counter point, frame the argument in ways that fly below the moderators/boards rules but clearly trading insults with other posters and so on. It was a game of "gotcha" and dueling google posts between one side and the other. Who could google up the most supportive news articles or studies from a reasonably respected news source and so on would get temporary 'wins'.

Then my mom passed away unexpectedly and I had a good look at what I was and wasn't doing in my life. In the online world, I gave up such posting and haven't looked back for going on 6 years now. I'm happier, less frustrated, if less informed than I used to be. I still read news articles with that critical eye, but I don't let these things get to me like they once did.

I board game more than I used to and expanded my interests. I learned how to sail last fall/late summer. Great experience and will try to continue with that. Anyways, point is, try not to let the posts get to you. You don't have to ignore threads or posters, just looking at something like it is less personal or a grudge match and more like, "what evah!" It's helped me a lot.

Well I deal do deal with issue I do not post here in my real life but I am going to try harder not to let people get to me. As you were saying, it's not worth it.

On the note of Portland when I moved here I thought I was very left leaning because where I moved from was Very conservative. Well after getting here I realized I am more centralist than Left Wing and find Portlandia funny because I do see people like them. Spoofed, yes but not as much as you would expect. But at least those people are more funny and ridiculous than threatening.

I would suspect if you came to out local game stores you will fall in love with the Geek Community out here. It's pretty large and the vast majority of players are great guys.

I bet I'd love to play some armada or imperial assault with you guys out there... would be pretty fun!

Sounds like you guys have a good group of gamers. There is a good group here too, but a little less extroverted I think than what I had seen in other places I've lived. It's not bad, just different.

I find it amusing that you ended up confirming my suspicions about portland based on Portlandia. Definitely tongue in cheek show, but not as much as one might thing... too funny!

I currently work for a great local grocery store, even though I have my BS (I know, but I will correct that. Life you know. But because of my store's fantastic Health Insurance I saved over $75,000 last year on my son's surgery on his ear. It has paid off.), but If I hear one more pseudoscience explanation about Gluten I am going to scream. I am really hating people who think they are an expert when they read one article even though I went through Years of college that touched on that very topic.

But I just smile and give them good service anyways.

Wait, so you're saying I shouldn't be gluten free all the time!!!!???11!?

*gasp*

Son's ear ok now or are there permanent problems? Hope he is doing well. I'd imagine that had to an emotional time for dad to see his kid go through such a major (assuming major due to cost) surgery.

Don't sweat where you work. I have a masters and I just work for a school district--not a teacher.