What if every small base ship in the game had Barrel Role? How would that impact the Imperials?

What if every small base ship in the game had Barrel Role? How would that impact the Imperials?

You'd almost never have a reason to take the TIE Fighter over the Z-95 for a swarm.

What if every small base ship in the game had Barrel Role? How would that impact the Imperials?

You'd almost never have a reason to take the TIE Fighter over the Z-95 for a swarm.

Except Howlrunner, Evade, better dice for Focus, better dial, and better Pilot Skill for blocking/actions/maneuvers...

What if every small base ship in the game had Barrel Role? How would that impact the Imperials?

You'd almost never have a reason to take the TIE Fighter over the Z-95 for a swarm.

Except Howlrunner, Evade, better dice for Focus, better dial, and better Pilot Skill for blocking/actions/maneuvers...

Howlrunner I'll grant, but Evade doesn't kill things, Focus does. If I can Barrel Roll five shielded Headhunters into formation against five TIEs, and have everybody focus when we start shooting, my money is absolutely on the PS2 Headhunters, and mostly on the PS1 Headhunters. The 3-K is in my opinion the only major drawback to swarming with Zs. There's definitely a lot of dice rolling, and that will play a big part, but for a straight 5v5 joust? I'm more confident with the Headhunters.

Not to say the TIEs are bad! I love swarms in general, and they're all very effective when flown in formation. Barrel Rolling makes the formation part a lot easier, and if I could roll Headhunters then the shields would make a huge difference. They can't, so in my mind it's a straight tie (ha) between Rebel, Imperial, and Scum choices, because they're all a little different, and those differences can be utilised or exploited.

The faster dial is the main thing the generics have going for them over the B-wing, you can displace more distance from turn to turn. I'm not sure how much of an advantage this is, considering they're both wallowing in mud against a lot of threats that are out there. If the game had some kind of objective system, they'd be better than B's at feinting toward an objective, or trying to grab one later in the game because they can cover more ground from turn to turn.

Z-95s would be my ship of choice over Ties if they could roll, except in a few cases

1. evade (this **** is amazing, just one health on a tie is almost always the same as a tie at 100% plus it's invaluable in match-ups that have those times when you're not doing ****, ala aggressors at range 3)

2. dat dial (just...dat dial)

3. characters (cracken's fine, but blount is just...ugh. On the scum side, I hold leechos to be less than useless in most scenarios and N'dru, while excellent, isn't exactly swam material for obvious reasons)

(on the tie side, we get Howl, backstabber, curse, beast, even mauler who's legit with V.I)

of course, Zs don't have B-roll. Difference is, they don't need it They have several weaknesses, but they're more points efficient than even the B-wing and easily more efficient than the X.

Okay different question and this is way out there...

Would the X-Wing be fine if there was no mirror match?

Okay different question and this is way out there...

Would the X-Wing be fine if there was no mirror match?

what, you mean no B-wings?

the X-wing has been inefficient since the Tie Fighter existed, not having to look at Rebels won't change that fact

So you're saying that the X-Wing has been over pointed from the Core Set?

And is the difference great or small; and if small how easy will it be to break something else?

There are several other threads talking about how good some of the named pilots are?

So you're saying that the X-Wing has been over pointed from the Core Set?

And is the difference great or small; and if small how easy will it be to break something else?

There are several other threads talking about how good some of the named pilots are?

also, the reason why the Xwing can't boost or roll?

the core set would've just come with the X-wing because Luke would've already devoured the Ties during shipping

The X Wing is the epitome of normal X Wing, as opposed to super X Wing. You select your maneuver, you only get to do one maneuver (unlike TIE Candycanes and Super Dash), you only get one action, and then you might get to hand off a focus or something to a squad mate if you paid for the named guy.

You don't get an HLC turret, you don't get a 4/4 statline, you don't get obnoxious gunner + FCS combos, regen is doable but it's reasonable, and when you K turn that's it, no actions. Thus it cannot compete. B Wing surpasses it in its own role, and playing it against super X Wing stuff it can't hold its own.

HLC dash throws 3/4 hits at you. You blank out. Almost dead 21+ points, neat.

Astromechs

If you had asked this prior to the release of wave 5, I would have stated that the X-wing was the best non-turret counter to the high-PS ACD Phantom. While this role was mainly filled by either Luke or Wes with VI and Stressbot, it still ate up roughly 1/3 of the squad points at 31 or 32, respectively, making it silly to not take other small base ships that complimented the "hit hard, hit first, and leave a stress" style that worked. I found more often than not, X-Wings liked flying with other X-wings in formation. The problem I found is that more often than not, the wave 5 meta helped kill off effective X-wing use. The Decimators at range 3 literally gain an evade dice vs. Wedge. The maximum amount of X-wings in any list is 4, though a list with good pilots will regularly cap out at 3 with maybe enough points for a Z-95 or kitting out the X-wings with astromechs and EPTs. This means that running a support swarm with a Decimator can help you outlast any X-wing squad based on hit points alone. The X-wing does well vs the 2-ship meta but most of those lists were susceptible to stress, while squads with swarm support could easily set up good blocks and easily kill actionless X's who had no way to avoid all of the ships or evade arcs.

Post wave 6 and the Phantom nerf, the X loses it's Phantom Hunter niche as all of the Phantom fan-boys drop it like it's radioactive (must be all that stygium releasing isotopes cloaking and decloaking every turn with ACD). Phantom use nose-dived and swarms returned as min-maxers rushed to the new "it" list. With all of the automatic damage and 4+ dice attacks people rush to things with more shields and hull with less evade in order to ensure gunner can't trigger. Furthermore, with so many flavors of extra or automatic damage coming from the scum release, X-wings and their already terrible ability to evade anything at all, get wrecked by A-4 Y-wings, Feedback Array, Brobots, and Rebel B-wings who can all outlast them shot for shot.

I don't believe the X-wing itself is dead. I struggle every week to keep them relevant during the meta shift, but in my experience, tournament winning lists will rarely contain an X-wing aside from maybe Biggs, in our post wave 6 world. Your experience (to no one in particular) may vary, but consider this; I have been determined to use X-wings in all of my competitive builds and prior to the new year I felt like I could take on all comers. Now I am struggling to not place below 8th in 10-20 man tournaments using ships that I am extremely familiar with and that I love more than any other ship in the game.

TL;DR

The Phantom nerf, more importantly its second and third order effects, may have possibly killed the X-wing's niche as Phantom hunter while simultaneously bringing back Swarms which the X-wing hates. This means there is little reason to take the X-wing in competitive lists beyond either sentimental value or because you have someone who needs Biggs' protection.

Eloquently put.

I tried. I'm A huge proponent of using the X-wing. I feel it is unfortunate that it is relegated to the uncompetitive side of the game.

The ship as a whole from rookie to Wedge (except Biggs) takes more effort and points to make efficient in tournament lists and while the fun (and heart of the game) is there, the risk vs. reward rarely pans out as opposed to wave 4.

This threads making me want to play Luke again

Predator and r5-p9 w/3 naked blues

Was torn between Jakes or xizor but gah

The ship as a whole from rookie to Wedge (except Biggs) takes more effort and points to make efficient in tournament lists and while the fun (and heart of the game) is there, the risk vs. reward rarely pans out as opposed to wave 4.

Im with you. The X, for me, IS Star Wars. I still fly it. But like you I find it difficult to justify outside of fun lists.

I still fly 3-4 Xs in casual games and my favorite game moment has to be flying a 7 X Wing list in 150 points which myself and my opponent both looked at and said "Wow that looks cool".

This threads making me want to play Luke again

Predator and r5-p9 w/3 naked blues

Was torn between Jakes or xizor but gah

Luke is definitely my goto named X Wing as he is so hard to kill. Predator or Lone Wolf depending on his offensive or defensive bent.

I tried. I'm A huge proponent of using the X-wing. I feel it is unfortunate that it is relegated to the uncompetitive side of the game.

The ship as a whole from rookie to Wedge (except Biggs) takes more effort and points to make efficient in tournament lists and while the fun (and heart of the game) is there, the risk vs. reward rarely pans out as opposed to wave 4.

Hey! Don't forget Luke and Tarn. They are fairly good for their points too.

The X is over costed compared to other normal ships, especially the B Wing. But it's not super terrible. The problem is when you have to bring one up against RAC with gunner and Predator and it always gets 3/3 or 4/4 hits on you even though it spent its action to boost. The thing is pretty much only a Z 95 with an extra attack die and hull, so it just kind of... dies.

Similar problem with the Defender. Yeah it's overcosted, but it wouldn't be half as bad if it didn't have to deal with obnoxious super ships that can take it off the board in a volley or two and only had to fight TIE Fighters and XXBB type lists. My opponent the other day had Vessery with an HLC in his list and it ripped my Black Squadrons to shreds. But If I was playing the Rear Admiral it would have been dead and my 16 health point fortress would have taken 5 damage.

Cant wait for the why bother with the Tie Bomber when the Tie Punisher is out.

In a 600 point game today the xwing turned out to be incredibly versatile and out of the rebel fleet it was mainly xwings left standing after the falcon, y wings, b wings and an a wing got a kicking

Wedge kills things.

Biggs controls the initial engagement

Wes sets up opportunist, or strips a token for support,

Tarn w r7is a defensive backup ship.

Luke is a defensive beast.

Porkins can kturn all day

Garven sets up action synergy.

Hobbie is, uh.... Good at countering rebel captive, kinda

Rookie/red for cheaper ways to put an x wing model on the field?

Not that hobbie pest have builds... But there are better places for r3-a2. With swarm tactics Hobbie can to a real captive and fire, and spend the TL to get around it, but Jek does it better with just VI. Hobbie builds generally fill a role that another X can do as well, or better.

Cant wait for the why bother with the Tie Bomber when the Tie Punisher is out.

doesn't seem to be heading that way

the stats on the punisher are wonky, but the 2 dice for the projected cost given the high PS ace is ass

so the Bomber will be more efficient (and it's a pretty chunky ship for its price)

the X-wing's relationship to the B-wing is not so rosy

In a 600 point game today the xwing turned out to be incredibly versatile and out of the rebel fleet it was mainly xwings left standing after the falcon, y wings, b wings and an a wing got a kicking

"Lowest priority target" hardly seems like a ringing endorsement