IT STARTED LIKE THIS

I over the years have played so many different games that my mind is at bursting point with rules, settings and great memories but out of them all ......

I LOVE THE WARHAMMER SETTING ( and the WH40K Setting - but that is for a different forum on a different day !!!). My love of it starts eighteen years ago when I first started table top and roleplaying and it continues to this day.

I have the original Games Workshop Edition (and all its supplements), the Hogshead Reprint and all the books relating to the Black Industries Edition. I have also played the card games, computer games, tabletop games BLAH BLAH BLAH !!!! So I suppose what I am saying is that I know a little about it all.

The setting is an intelligent and engrossing work of developing non-fiction which has something for everyone and is something that everyone can contribute to and take part in by way of one format or another. It is an accessable setting .... and that is what I thing FFG are trying to do with this new edition.

Games Workshop sells models to gamers like crack to an addict !!!! and if they can pull more people into that market then all the better for them ... and one way to do it is through the RPG back door. If they can pull gamers into there business by doing it through WFRP then they will.

The new edition looks shiney, clean and well presented. It appears adorned with new art, glossey cards and custom dice - It screams out amongst the other products on the shelfs LOOK AT ME !!!! and NO I AM NOT DUNGEONS AND DRAGONS !!!

I am all for pulling more people into gaming ( and diverting them for D&D) but I fear that my favourite RPG is going to suffer at the hands of FFG in the name of doing so.

I have images of a dumbed down setting ( far from grim and perilous but bright and heroic) , a product line which requires purchase after purchase to keep up with (Box after Box of shiney cards and dice) a rules system which takes away all the stuff we love - No more percentage rolls, No more Critical Hits and finally a system which reduces the openness of the setting - Sorry you cannot be a Halfing Bounty Hounter I have not got the required cards and dice -

I of course will buy the new edition and hope to be proved wrong but I have a feeling I wont be.

THEN THIS

I must admit that I have calmed down some after an initial rant (See-MY TWO PENCE WORTH OF COMMENT !!!) - I am starting to like what I see from the previews

The dice system looks fun and different

The party sheets give the group focus

The careers and advancement system looks flexiable enough

The product quality looks great

I am still resistant because of the overall change to an established and successful system - but I love the Warhammer Setting and I am willing to give this a try - I might enough go as far to say I am looking forward to it.

DW

AND NOW

I am extremely excited about the forthcoming edition of WFRP - The system and presentation ( the art looks great !!) have me chomping at the bit and I cannot wait to get my grubby snotling claws on it.

Hear, hear!

The penitent comes back to embrace Sigmar in all his holiness

I'm easily excitable, so I skipped the first part of your post and jumped directly into the second ...

DENZ said:

I know you said you've turned more favorable to the game, but I felt I had to point out a few things:

1. purchase after purchase - Every RPG has this. New sourcebooks, settings, PC careers, etc. The only difference is that instead of just a book to flip through to get the information, you get cards that you can put in front of you for easy look-up.

2. no more percentage rolls - meh. It was simple, granted, and easy to see success/failure. I wasn't in love with it, though. The new dice pool looks to have a lot more flexibility in results with a single roll. More dice to roll at once, though.

3. No more critical hits - incorrect! There are still critical hits, but they have actually been improved. Now, instead of only getting critical hits once Wounds are at 0, you can inflict critical hits at any time during combat, depending on your dice roll. Excellent, in my opinion.

4. Reduced openness of setting - well, it's probably about as open as any other RPG that first comes out. It has the advantage, though, of plenty of v1 and v2 sourcebooks for setting/background information. Who wants to really play a halfling anyway? (grin).

I think that part of the issue with the first edition IMHO was that the world was too big with too little detail. We got a nice map and a few broad overviews of each area. Expansions or quests tried to fill in the holes. In v2, things were a little better, if not a little erratic in releases. Books dedicated to specific regions was a lot better.

With v3, I think that GW and FFG want to start in a smaller area, allowing a lot of detail to be produced for each region as the game expands. FFG is very good at details, and I'm hoping they push GW to provide better detail and environment to WHFR.

You're reasons for being hyped up about the new WHFR are the same for me. Glad to have you on-board.

I only got back into WFRP in the last 6 months and I was pissed that it ended so soon after my return. I was even angrier that the replacement was revealed to be this abomination, mutated beyond recognition into some sickeningly vile parody of the best rpg ever made's former glory.

Then I went away to calm down and two things have become clear: First this game is not Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay in any way, shape or form. Secondly this game is not really even a Roleplaying game at all.

Armed with these conclusions I had another look at the game. Assessing the game on it's own merits as opposed to comparing it to WFRPv1 or WFRPv2 I have begun to think that it could be a very good game. Some of the new mechanics look quite good, some look very cheesy and heavy handed though. Things like the Tension Meter I can't understand why you would need to track the ternsion of the party, surely just by roleplaying you can cover that far better than with a mechanical punishment for the entire group.

The system looks great, well developed and I hope it will be a hit. I'm really hoping for more books and more Warhammer Fantays Roleplay, the 3rd edition could give me a better look of the Old World then the previous editions.

I'm hoping for a good game and a lot of fun playing it.

Me, I was also a bit appauled but now I'm more the watch an wait type. A lot of the 'conlcusions' on the success/failure of this new game is made based on something we really havent seen yet. Question is how will all these new game mechanics and tools function as a whole?

So as I've posted in a lot of my earlier posts: Come on Jay; give us that demo sesion video!

And you can quote me on that. :-)

Armrek said:

/signed

I third that notion - i think a demo video would be good- it will open up the eyes of a few of the non-believers, sway the neutrals and reinforce the purchase for those who want it !

DENZ said:

GAH! SEEK HELP!

DENZ said:

Hear, hear! Totally agree.

I have also been playing WFRP for a long time and have also been gone for a while from the forums, so naturally I feel surprised and betrayed. Here is why:

It is one thing to change the rules and make the system better (like what they did from 1st to 2nd edition), it is another thing to force us to used these special dice, cards and all of the rest of those boardgame pieces to play the game.

Ironically, I would have expected that from Wizards of the Cost with D&D (which is not required at all), but it was our saviors at FF to betray my trust and spring this on us.

If people are happy and excited about this, good for you! I wish I can be excited about this, but I only feel like once "Death Watch" comes out for 40K, you are going to do the same thing to that world and system.

FF, I love your boardgames, but I don't like the concept of using boardgame pieces in my rpgs. Sorry, that is what a character sheet is for. So far all the new things that have sprung up on the designer's diary can be done without all of the little cards and counters and funny dice.

And now you expect us to spend $100 to even see if we like the new system? With all of these game pieces that are required for play, how are you going to put up a quick start version of this game? Or am I wrong to believe that your fans were not the intended target audience.

DENZ said:

I would like to see a demo video.

But I don't think FFG will risk it and I don't think they have anything to gain from a demo video.

The Pro-WFRPv3 mob have already erected WFRPv3 altars to kneel and worship before and need no further encouragement.

The Detractors hate the Boardgame paraphernalia, hate what FFG have done to WFRPv2, hate the narrow focus of WFRPv3 and it is doubtful that anything could change their minds. A handful of detractors have reversed their opinions but on the other hand several initial supporters have also decided that they don't like the look of the new game.

IMO the Fence Sitters would probably be turned off or swayed towards WFRPv3 in equal numbers. Without a demo they all remain potential customers.

The second issue is what would FFG put in the video? The content of the video could depending on what it was really turn off a lot of people. Perhaps FFG would have to show an entire session.

Foolishboy said:

An entire session? Hours and hours of dice rolling, roll playing and ration tracking?

DeathFromAbove said:

Post Corrected

DeathFromAbove said:

Perhaps I should elaborate. I am not advocating Jay post a four hour film. What I was trying to say is that it would be difficult to post a short demo video that would please everybody. If Jay posts a video of a combat, the critics say WFRPv3 is a Combat heavy slash fest. If Jay posts a video of Card interaction, the critics say WFRPv3 is a Collectable Card game. If Jay posts a video of the Boardgame bits, he critics say WFRPv3 is a Boardgame. If Jay posts a video of pure roleplay, we find out what sort of beer he and his friends drink while they play. So we would need either an hour of play or several demo videos each showcasing a different section of the game.

Several videos for me please .