So, out of curiosity, what caused the popularity of BBBBZ to suddenly skyrocket?

Phantom nerf?

So, out of curiosity, what caused the popularity of BBBBZ to suddenly skyrocket?

Phantom nerf?

Yep it was keeping low ps swarms away, now it's much easier to catch it in arc.

It's also pretty good at MoV preservation, especially in shorter rounds.

BBBBZ was still popular before the Phantom 'nerf.' The deal was that if you did catch the Phantom in arc during the first pass, it would tear it to shreds. Also, the build put more guns and ships on the board than other BBBB builds.

BBBBZ actually jumped up into the fray whenever the two ship meta hit us.

It's really easy to nail 2 ships when you throw a million dice every turn.

It is on par with a tie swarm, but has a few advantages in keeping fire concentrated, maneuvering, and MoV considerations.

It is odd that we didn't really see it a whole lot before now, but I'd hazard a guess that it's because naked, generic, low-PS ships makes for a really super boring list.

BBBBZ is easy to play, very powerful and tears apart two-ship lists, but boy is it dull.

I don't religiously follow tournament results but I don't remember bbbbz showing up much at the phantoms height.

The basic headhunter is good filler in lots of lists, it's just a shame the named pilots are so weak the ship pops too easily to make it worth piling on mods and expensive epts.

BBBBZ is easy to play, very powerful and tears apart two-ship lists, but boy is it dull.

For more and more people, that part is not important. Coming out of the tournament with a first place is more important than using a list they love and know will have fun all day.

That being said, some players love flying generics and B-Wing, so, I would not say that BBBBZ is automatically a dull list to play. It might not be to your liking, but I'm sure some players have a really good time flying a list like it. And it is not that easy to play, B-Wings can still go down pretty fast if you're not careful.

I'd rather use ships I like and lose than play a list I hate but I'm in this purely for fun not to compete on any level.

And I have the devils own luck so I can win with suboptimal lists anyway

I started seeing bbbbz a lot right after the decimator was released. Lots of dice on a 0 agility target.

BBBBZ made a few appearances deep in tournaments last year in Canada, has really been prevalent the whole store champ season though: http://xwing.macker.co/squad.php?s=328&d=90&f=0

Plasma torpedoes can't arrive too soon....

Interesting to hear thoughts that BBBBZ is dull to fly when we have a plethora of twin turret builds, surely these are more dull, no?

Interesting to hear thoughts that BBBBZ is dull to fly when we have a plethora of twin turret builds, surely these are more dull, no?

True. I personally prefer flying Ace pilots, but running a swarm is really fun from time to time.

Interesting to hear thoughts that BBBBZ is dull to fly when we have a plethora of twin turret builds, surely these are more dull, no?

Good point. But then I think anything that doesn't involve at least one HWK or Y-Wing is a dull list.

Interesting to hear thoughts that BBBBZ is dull to fly when we have a plethora of twin turret builds, surely these are more dull, no?

this is basically why it took off, I'd imagine.

reason being : dice are the only way to beat large turrets since outplaying them is not really an option

once you've bulldozed them and neutralized the worst possible games of X-wing, you can focus on actual strategy and positioning by catching the arc-dodgers that will give generics fits

Seriously, have you guys ever seen a fattie on fattie mirror match? It's basically yahtzee without the complexity.

Interesting to hear thoughts that BBBBZ is dull to fly when we have a plethora of twin turret builds, surely these are more dull, no?

this is basically why it took off, I'd imagine.

reason being : dice are the only way to beat large turrets since outplaying them is not really an option

once you've bulldozed them and neutralized the worst possible games of X-wing, you can focus on actual strategy and positioning by catching the arc-dodgers that will give generics fits

Seriously, have you guys ever seen a fattie on fattie mirror match? It's basically yahtzee without the complexity.

Have you pinned a large ship in the corner? Have you ever seen players try to set up the block, have you seen them try to force the turret onto a rock or debris?. There are many ways to out play them. I would agree that bad players flying turrets probably aren't fun to watch but I don't think bad players flying anything is fun to watch. You should have seen Jeff B's and Paul Heaver's 2 games at gencon when it was just down to there falcons. It was very exciting to watch and there was a lot of strategy involved.

StMack, does your ranker use a big enough sample of tourneys atm? Looking at your list it sure does look like BBBZ is King atm ...

I think that people who think low PS swarms of any sort are dull to fly have not flown many low PS swarms. They are nerve-wracking for the swarm player because they depend on formation flying and anticipating opponent movement. As a primarily Imperial player, keeping a swarm of TIEs in formation with actions is like herding cats. You really have to be aware of obstacles and ship spacing so you don't play bumper-cars with your ships. An actionless TIE is a dead TIE.

I think that people who think low PS swarms of any sort are dull to fly have not flown many low PS swarms. They are nerve-wracking for the swarm player because they depend on formation flying and anticipating opponent movement. As a primarily Imperial player, keeping a swarm of TIEs in formation with actions is like herding cats. You really have to be aware of obstacles and ship spacing so you don't play bumper-cars with your ships. An actionless TIE is a dead TIE.

Maybe it's nerve-wracking for your Tie Fighters.

As a Z-95 swarmer though, I do like to keep in formation too to keep the firepower, but I don't have to keep in formation. And I don't give a crap about flying through obstacles to keep my guns on the enemy. Shields ftw!

problem there is the X-95 is a stiff bastard

if you don't plan ahead and get a good approach going, they don't even have a fraction of the tie's maneuverability

especially against Dash, just planning the route out for your Z-95s can be a mentally taxing experience

I think that people who think low PS swarms of any sort are dull to fly have not flown many low PS swarms. They are nerve-wracking for the swarm player because they depend on formation flying and anticipating opponent movement. As a primarily Imperial player, keeping a swarm of TIEs in formation with actions is like herding cats. You really have to be aware of obstacles and ship spacing so you don't play bumper-cars with your ships. An actionless TIE is a dead TIE.

Maybe it's nerve-wracking for your Tie Fighters.

As a Z-95 swarmer though, I do like to keep in formation too to keep the firepower, but I don't have to keep in formation. And I don't give a crap about flying through obstacles to keep my guns on the enemy. Shields ftw!

You also don't have the option of Howlrunner, who gives every TIE in range 1 a ghetto Target Lock.

BUT!

you can run Biggs with 6 Z's and 3 points of upgrades.

Interesting to hear thoughts that BBBBZ is dull to fly when we have a plethora of twin turret builds, surely these are more dull, no?

this is basically why it took off, I'd imagine.

reason being : dice are the only way to beat large turrets since outplaying them is not really an option

once you've bulldozed them and neutralized the worst possible games of X-wing, you can focus on actual strategy and positioning by catching the arc-dodgers that will give generics fits

Seriously, have you guys ever seen a fattie on fattie mirror match? It's basically yahtzee without the complexity.

Have you pinned a large ship in the corner? Have you ever seen players try to set up the block, have you seen them try to force the turret onto a rock or debris?. There are many ways to out play them. I would agree that bad players flying turrets probably aren't fun to watch but I don't think bad players flying anything is fun to watch. You should have seen Jeff B's and Paul Heaver's 2 games at gencon when it was just down to there falcons. It was very exciting to watch and there was a lot of strategy involved.

Yah man, Turret vs Turret is actually a lot of fun because gaining an advantage is usually very subtle. You have to do things like park in a position to block, then take a TL, then have TL+Evade vs Evade actions next round. Or position to force either a range 1 engagement (when you want it) such that the opponent has to boost to avoid range 1, but lose their evade action or something. Since those big defensive turrets will do such little damage to each other, you have to accumulate small advantages to win.