Also, without games stores, FFG isn't a company. The fact is the vast majority of gamers first became gamers because of games stores. If there were no more games stores, your gaming groups aren't going to sustain the industry like games stores do. So there is no armada, or most any other games for that matter. So what exactly do online stores, and people who only play in their friends basements provide for the continuation of the community?

Played plenty of board games when there wasn't a single game store in the area I grew up. Oddly enough, we had plenty of games to play.... Panzer blitz, squad leader, empires in arms, axis and allies, third reich, etc.

The "community" did and continues to do fine, with or without a local game store.

So do people who demand and expect others to support game shops feel that others exist to provide them with a place to play?

This is the kind of close minded response I would expect from someone who doesn't understand we're all part of a larger communit. You think there weren't game stores/comic shops anywhere while you were growing up??? If you want to shop online, that's fine, but don't pretend like it has no effect on the community/industry. Because you're wrog, but you're free to be as selfish as you like.

I am pretty sure online shopping was not existing when he was growing up. So using an analogy of when he was growing up is pretty mooth. The thing with BM shops is that they do not want to evolve with their world. They still want to have monopol of a niche market to set the price they want to charge.market. We live in a numeric world. You either adapt or die. We call this evolution.

This is so ignorant. If every BM shop "evolved" they would all cut their overhead by dumping their retail space and only selling online where they can afford to discount. Congrats, you've killed the gaming industry.

Killing the gaming industry? As far as I know, boardgames industry has never been thriving that much, yet most people buy them online. In the sole Quebec province we have 5 online shop that are based in Quebec (not even counting other canadian online shop). The demand for online shopping is there. The gaming industry is not dieing. FLGS might be dieing, but like I said, you adapt or you die.

So again, if you play at the store, you should buy stuff there. I again think of it as a rental fee for table space. But it's not like you should feel like the only stuff you can use is stuff you bought there.

Absolutely.

Also, without games stores, FFG isn't a company. The fact is the vast majority of gamers first became gamers because of games stores. If there were no more games stores, your gaming groups aren't going to sustain the industry like games stores do. So there is no armada, or most any other games for that matter. So what exactly do online stores, and people who only play in their friends basements provide for the continuation of the community?

Played plenty of board games when there wasn't a single game store in the area I grew up. Oddly enough, we had plenty of games to play.... Panzer blitz, squad leader, empires in arms, axis and allies, third reich, etc.The "community" did and continues to do fine, with or without a local game store.So do people who demand and expect others to support game shops feel that others exist to provide them with a place to play?

This is the kind of close minded response I would expect from someone who doesn't understand we're all part of a larger communit. You think there weren't game stores/comic shops anywhere while you were growing up??? If you want to shop online, that's fine, but don't pretend like it has no effect on the community/industry. Because you're wrog, but you're free to be as selfish as you like.

This is the kind of close minded response I would expect from someone who doesn't understand that there different ways in which to build and maintain a gaming community. A game store isn't necessary nor do people exist to make sure you have a game store to go too.As for your straw man, I never said there weren't game or comics stores, I said there weren't any where I grew up and yet games were still purchased (through the mail in the case of Avalon hill and spi games) and played. People still do purchase and play them back home and guess what? A game store wasn't required,

I get it now, you still don't get it. Yes those companies could still sell stuff through magazines in such. What you don't understand is that without distributors to sell to, (in case you don't know what those are, they sell to retailers, those stores you think arent needed) they would never create the games in the first place (not even to sell in magazines) because it's not a viable business model. Just like pretty much every other industry in the entire world.

Sadly, you don't get it....

You see, as I pointed out, your straw man still doesn't hold water. A game store isn't necessary to sell these kinds of games. They are being sold in places likes Barnes and noble, target, toys r us, and other stores that aren't just game stores.

In many cases, some game companies sell strictly online through a print on demand schedule. Victory point games is an example of such a company.

Also, without games stores, FFG isn't a company. The fact is the vast majority of gamers first became gamers because of games stores. If there were no more games stores, your gaming groups aren't going to sustain the industry like games stores do. So there is no armada, or most any other games for that matter. So what exactly do online stores, and people who only play in their friends basements provide for the continuation of the community?

Played plenty of board games when there wasn't a single game store in the area I grew up. Oddly enough, we had plenty of games to play.... Panzer blitz, squad leader, empires in arms, axis and allies, third reich, etc.The "community" did and continues to do fine, with or without a local game store.So do people who demand and expect others to support game shops feel that others exist to provide them with a place to play?

This is the kind of close minded response I would expect from someone who doesn't understand we're all part of a larger communit. You think there weren't game stores/comic shops anywhere while you were growing up??? If you want to shop online, that's fine, but don't pretend like it has no effect on the community/industry. Because you're wrog, but you're free to be as selfish as you like.

This is the kind of close minded response I would expect from someone who doesn't understand that there different ways in which to build and maintain a gaming community. A game store isn't necessary nor do people exist to make sure you have a game store to go too.As for your straw man, I never said there weren't game or comics stores, I said there weren't any where I grew up and yet games were still purchased (through the mail in the case of Avalon hill and spi games) and played. People still do purchase and play them back home and guess what? A game store wasn't required,

I get it now, you still don't get it. Yes those companies could still sell stuff through magazines in such. What you don't understand is that without distributors to sell to, (in case you don't know what those are, they sell to retailers, those stores you think arent needed) they would never create the games in the first place (not even to sell in magazines) because it's not a viable business model. Just like pretty much every other industry in the entire world.

Sadly, you don't get it....

You see, as I pointed out, your straw man still doesn't hold water. A game store isn't necessary to sell these kinds of games. They are being sold in places likes Barnes and noble, target, toys r us, and other stores that aren't just game stores.

In many cases, some game companies sell strictly online through a print on demand schedule. Victory point games is an example of such a company.

Also, without games stores, FFG isn't a company. The fact is the vast majority of gamers first became gamers because of games stores. If there were no more games stores, your gaming groups aren't going to sustain the industry like games stores do. So there is no armada, or most any other games for that matter. So what exactly do online stores, and people who only play in their friends basements provide for the continuation of the community?

Played plenty of board games when there wasn't a single game store in the area I grew up. Oddly enough, we had plenty of games to play.... Panzer blitz, squad leader, empires in arms, axis and allies, third reich, etc.The "community" did and continues to do fine, with or without a local game store.So do people who demand and expect others to support game shops feel that others exist to provide them with a place to play?

This is the kind of close minded response I would expect from someone who doesn't understand we're all part of a larger communit. You think there weren't game stores/comic shops anywhere while you were growing up??? If you want to shop online, that's fine, but don't pretend like it has no effect on the community/industry. Because you're wrog, but you're free to be as selfish as you like.

This is the kind of close minded response I would expect from someone who doesn't understand that there different ways in which to build and maintain a gaming community. A game store isn't necessary nor do people exist to make sure you have a game store to go too.As for your straw man, I never said there weren't game or comics stores, I said there weren't any where I grew up and yet games were still purchased (through the mail in the case of Avalon hill and spi games) and played. People still do purchase and play them back home and guess what? A game store wasn't required,

I get it now, you still don't get it. Yes those companies could still sell stuff through magazines in such. What you don't understand is that without distributors to sell to, (in case you don't know what those are, they sell to retailers, those stores you think arent needed) they would never create the games in the first place (not even to sell in magazines) because it's not a viable business model. Just like pretty much every other industry in the entire world.

Sadly, you don't get it....

You see, as I pointed out, your straw man still doesn't hold water. A game store isn't necessary to sell these kinds of games. They are being sold in places likes Barnes and noble, target, toys r us, and other stores that aren't just game stores.

In many cases, some game companies sell strictly online through a print on demand schedule. Victory point games is an example of such a company.

You keep saying straw man but I don't even think you know what it means, I also don't think you understand how commerce worked before the Internet. You're some how trying to put the cart before the horse. Without the horse, the cart never gets invented.

You have assigned an argument to me that I did not make. You then proceed to argue against to, implying that it was something I tried to prove in the first place.

I didn't try to prove that no game stores existed anywhere. I simply stated that where I grew up, there weren't any game stores and that games were (and are) still played. I then gave examples of the types of games that were played.

As for the cart before the horse comment, games from Avalon hill and spi weren't sold in game shops when they came out. Game shops developed after the advent of those types of games.

oh, this thread started so well

just shut her down, boys

11 pages and over 200 replies... honestly this got further than the last one.

I'll make an Edit on my OP, but yes, sadly, it may be time to close this one up.

o7

Also, without games stores, FFG isn't a company. The fact is the vast majority of gamers first became gamers because of games stores. If there were no more games stores, your gaming groups aren't going to sustain the industry like games stores do. So there is no armada, or most any other games for that matter. So what exactly do online stores, and people who only play in their friends basements provide for the continuation of the community?

Played plenty of board games when there wasn't a single game store in the area I grew up. Oddly enough, we had plenty of games to play.... Panzer blitz, squad leader, empires in arms, axis and allies, third reich, etc.The "community" did and continues to do fine, with or without a local game store.So do people who demand and expect others to support game shops feel that others exist to provide them with a place to play?

This is the kind of close minded response I would expect from someone who doesn't understand we're all part of a larger communit. You think there weren't game stores/comic shops anywhere while you were growing up??? If you want to shop online, that's fine, but don't pretend like it has no effect on the community/industry. Because you're wrog, but you're free to be as selfish as you like.

This is the kind of close minded response I would expect from someone who doesn't understand that there different ways in which to build and maintain a gaming community. A game store isn't necessary nor do people exist to make sure you have a game store to go too.As for your straw man, I never said there weren't game or comics stores, I said there weren't any where I grew up and yet games were still purchased (through the mail in the case of Avalon hill and spi games) and played. People still do purchase and play them back home and guess what? A game store wasn't required,

I get it now, you still don't get it. Yes those companies could still sell stuff through magazines in such. What you don't understand is that without distributors to sell to, (in case you don't know what those are, they sell to retailers, those stores you think arent needed) they would never create the games in the first place (not even to sell in magazines) because it's not a viable business model. Just like pretty much every other industry in the entire world.

Sadly, you don't get it....

You see, as I pointed out, your straw man still doesn't hold water. A game store isn't necessary to sell these kinds of games. They are being sold in places likes Barnes and noble, target, toys r us, and other stores that aren't just game stores.

In many cases, some game companies sell strictly online through a print on demand schedule. Victory point games is an example of such a company.

You keep saying straw man but I don't even think you know what it means, I also don't think you understand how commerce worked before the Internet. You're some how trying to put the cart before the horse. Without the horse, the cart never gets invented.

You have assigned an argument to me that I did not make. You then proceed to argue against to, implying that it was something I tried to prove in the first place.

I didn't try to prove that no game stores existed anywhere. I simply stated that where I grew up, there weren't any game stores and that games were (and are) still played. I then gave examples of the types of games that were played.

As for the cart before the horse comment, games from Avalon hill and spi weren't sold in game shops when they came out. Game shops developed after the advent of those types of games.

As for the cart before the horse comment, games from Avalon hill and spi weren't sold in game shops when they came out. Game shops developed after the advent of those types of games.

When I first got into gaming, they sold the D&D red box and the black Travelers book at my local hardware store. That would been 1979... This was before there was such a thing as a gaming store. The closest you got to that was hobby shops that happened to carry RPG's and the like along with the RC cars planes and other stuff.

So the very idea that the gaming store was needed for games to exist is complete and utter nonsense. Games existed before the gamestore, they would of had to, otherwise you would've had stores with nothing to sell.

Also, without games stores, FFG isn't a company. The fact is the vast majority of gamers first became gamers because of games stores. If there were no more games stores, your gaming groups aren't going to sustain the industry like games stores do. So there is no armada, or most any other games for that matter. So what exactly do online stores, and people who only play in their friends basements provide for the continuation of the community?

Played plenty of board games when there wasn't a single game store in the area I grew up. Oddly enough, we had plenty of games to play.... Panzer blitz, squad leader, empires in arms, axis and allies, third reich, etc.The "community" did and continues to do fine, with or without a local game store.So do people who demand and expect others to support game shops feel that others exist to provide them with a place to play?

This is the kind of close minded response I would expect from someone who doesn't understand we're all part of a larger communit. You think there weren't game stores/comic shops anywhere while you were growing up??? If you want to shop online, that's fine, but don't pretend like it has no effect on the community/industry. Because you're wrog, but you're free to be as selfish as you like.

This is the kind of close minded response I would expect from someone who doesn't understand that there different ways in which to build and maintain a gaming community. A game store isn't necessary nor do people exist to make sure you have a game store to go too.As for your straw man, I never said there weren't game or comics stores, I said there weren't any where I grew up and yet games were still purchased (through the mail in the case of Avalon hill and spi games) and played. People still do purchase and play them back home and guess what? A game store wasn't required,

I get it now, you still don't get it. Yes those companies could still sell stuff through magazines in such. What you don't understand is that without distributors to sell to, (in case you don't know what those are, they sell to retailers, those stores you think arent needed) they would never create the games in the first place (not even to sell in magazines) because it's not a viable business model. Just like pretty much every other industry in the entire world.

Sadly, you don't get it....

You see, as I pointed out, your straw man still doesn't hold water. A game store isn't necessary to sell these kinds of games. They are being sold in places likes Barnes and noble, target, toys r us, and other stores that aren't just game stores.

In many cases, some game companies sell strictly online through a print on demand schedule. Victory point games is an example of such a company.

You keep saying straw man but I don't even think you know what it means, I also don't think you understand how commerce worked before the Internet. You're some how trying to put the cart before the horse. Without the horse, the cart never gets invented.

You have assigned an argument to me that I did not make. You then proceed to argue against to, implying that it was something I tried to prove in the first place.

I didn't try to prove that no game stores existed anywhere. I simply stated that where I grew up, there weren't any game stores and that games were (and are) still played. I then gave examples of the types of games that were played.

As for the cart before the horse comment, games from Avalon hill and spi weren't sold in game shops when they came out. Game shops developed after the advent of those types of games.

Ohhhh so you're the one creating a straw man argument, got it. I was simply pointing out that your example that you gave as an argument was a terrible one.

Still waiting for you to back up your assertion earlier on.... Don't run away from it...,

I'm glad that you now understand that your straw man was pointless. Try sticking to the actual discussion for future posts, it'll help move things along.

All I know is that if the people in this thread are representative of the people I'll find hanging out at brick and mortar stores, they can't close fast enough. I read this forum for information on the game, not to see blustery egos run 11 pages, trading shots at one another while discussing the economic models of businesses of which they are neither the proprietors nor privy to the finances of. Can we please return to our regularly scheduled discussion on why Wave 1 cannot get here fast enough and leave the venue where we plan to purchase said Wave 1 out of any further conversations?

Thank you!

I'ma Let you finish....

But I've created a thread to continue this debate. Hopefully without too much trolling or ad hominem.

I'ma Let you finish....

But I've created a thread to continue this debate. Hopefully without too much trolling or ad hominem.

To LGS or not to LGS? That is the question.

It probably needs to end. I'm willing to admit that I'm a judgmental ahole, now the others just need to admit that they're greedy leaches who hate small business and we can move on.

Also, without games stores, FFG isn't a company. The fact is the vast majority of gamers first became gamers because of games stores. If there were no more games stores, your gaming groups aren't going to sustain the industry like games stores do. So there is no armada, or most any other games for that matter. So what exactly do online stores, and people who only play in their friends basements provide for the continuation of the community?

Played plenty of board games when there wasn't a single game store in the area I grew up. Oddly enough, we had plenty of games to play.... Panzer blitz, squad leader, empires in arms, axis and allies, third reich, etc.The "community" did and continues to do fine, with or without a local game store.So do people who demand and expect others to support game shops feel that others exist to provide them with a place to play?

This is the kind of close minded response I would expect from someone who doesn't understand we're all part of a larger communit. You think there weren't game stores/comic shops anywhere while you were growing up??? If you want to shop online, that's fine, but don't pretend like it has no effect on the community/industry. Because you're wrog, but you're free to be as selfish as you like.

This is the kind of close minded response I would expect from someone who doesn't understand that there different ways in which to build and maintain a gaming community. A game store isn't necessary nor do people exist to make sure you have a game store to go too.As for your straw man, I never said there weren't game or comics stores, I said there weren't any where I grew up and yet games were still purchased (through the mail in the case of Avalon hill and spi games) and played. People still do purchase and play them back home and guess what? A game store wasn't required,

I get it now, you still don't get it. Yes those companies could still sell stuff through magazines in such. What you don't understand is that without distributors to sell to, (in case you don't know what those are, they sell to retailers, those stores you think arent needed) they would never create the games in the first place (not even to sell in magazines) because it's not a viable business model. Just like pretty much every other industry in the entire world.

Sadly, you don't get it....

You see, as I pointed out, your straw man still doesn't hold water. A game store isn't necessary to sell these kinds of games. They are being sold in places likes Barnes and noble, target, toys r us, and other stores that aren't just game stores.

In many cases, some game companies sell strictly online through a print on demand schedule. Victory point games is an example of such a company.

You keep saying straw man but I don't even think you know what it means, I also don't think you understand how commerce worked before the Internet. You're some how trying to put the cart before the horse. Without the horse, the cart never gets invented.

You have assigned an argument to me that I did not make. You then proceed to argue against to, implying that it was something I tried to prove in the first place.

I didn't try to prove that no game stores existed anywhere. I simply stated that where I grew up, there weren't any game stores and that games were (and are) still played. I then gave examples of the types of games that were played.

As for the cart before the horse comment, games from Avalon hill and spi weren't sold in game shops when they came out. Game shops developed after the advent of those types of games.

Ohhhh so you're the one creating a straw man argument, got it. I was simply pointing out that your example that you gave as an argument was a terrible one.

Still waiting for you to back up your assertion earlier on.... Don't run away from it...,

I'm glad that you now understand that your straw man was pointless. Try sticking to the actual discussion for future posts, it'll help move things along.

I'ma Let you finish....

But I've created a thread to continue this debate. Hopefully without too much trolling or ad hominem.

To LGS or not to LGS? That is the question.

That thing has no chance, you have to hide the argument in other threads...

It probably needs to end. I'm willing to admit that I'm a judgmental ahole, now the others just need to admit that they're greedy leaches who hate small business and we can move on.

Well, if you want to see the community in such stark dichotomous terms, then yes - divorce as fast as you can. Please leave the rest of us to resolve, or at least understand, our differences.

Hello Armada forum community-

This thread has been locked because it has devolved into arguments and personal attacks. Please feel free to continue beneficial conversation elsewhere, and remember to treat all other users with kindness and respect.

Thanks!

FFG Forum Moderator