Actually it doesn't matter.

People will spend their money where and how it makes the most sense for them. Idealy they will factor in things like the social hub and table space a LGS offers.

But how much that is actually worth is going to vary greatly from person to person. Myself I figure table space and the rest is worth $5 per season. For some people that means there's no reason to ever buy at a LGS because they'll never play there.

For others that may mean they will buy everything from there because they play there all the time.

So buying from your LGS vs online really has to factor in just how much value someone actually gets out of a game store.

That's dated information, they DID have a store with tables, that is not the case anymore. In fact, that was 2 store fronts ago.

According to their calendar, they're still hosting games there. According to the Gamenite site, they're not at the same address listed for MM either.

Wait... did you throw a fit and put me on "ignore" how is it you can see my posts? Also, I'll try and explain this better. Miniature market use to have a large store with about 6 or 8 gaming tables. They move out of that building to a smaller building (their second move in about 2 years at the time). Then Game Nite moved into that building. They are only open till 6 through the week, 4pm on saturdays, and not open on sundays, so when are these events being run? The gaming area at the new place is about the size of a small break room at a grocery store. They have a couple of small white tables for card games. They aren't even 3 feet wide, so minis games are kinda SOL.

all they need to do is shut up and admit they are terrible greedy selfish people.

You can view people's post that are on your ignore list by specifically clicking to read each post. Otherwise it just comes up as "XYZ is ignored do you want to read this post click here".

What I am saying is, if they can sell games at online price while renting a place, it means FLGS argument "we can't sell at online price, we have a place to rent" is void.

Well I don't know how they're able to make it. I've seen the numbers for my FLGS and they would close selling at online prices. They are barely eeking by as it is. So again no it isn't void.

The reason all these online retailers have BM stores is because GW requires it if you want to be able to get their product. They don't care if they break even operating them, because the BM store isn't where their profits come from. REAL BM stores DO get their profits from their BM stores. So no, the argument is not "void". Not when one is someone's livelihood, and the other is just a way to skirt a rule, and isn't even intended to make money. Miniature market did the same thing in St. Louis, but the stores were a joke. And I say stores, because they constantly moved to cheaper and cheaper buildings when they could find it. I'm willing to be meeplemart has moved a time or two already...

Everything I've ever heard about Meeplemart(which is a bizarre amount given that I'm not from Canada) characterizes them as on the up and up. You're making some hefty assumptions about the owners character.

Lets see if I can paraphrase your comment... "I don't really know anything about meeplemart, and I don't live anywhere near them, but they're good guys...". I never said what they were doing was shady, just explaining why online retailers maintain store fronts. Those store fronts don't need to be profitable, because online sales is where they make their money. Several manufacturers (including GW) will not sell wholesale to stores unless they have BM stores. That is the only reason they maintain them. My whole point was saying "meeplemart maintains a store and can still sell at a discount, so everyone should be able to" is ignorant.

Yes, there are game stores that do what you're talking about. But until you see evidence of a business doing so it is better to assume positive things rather than negative things.

And I've just heard Meeple Mart mentioned. A lot. Which is strange, as I pointed out.

Basically, assume the best in people until you have reason not to.

all they need to do is shut up and admit they are terrible greedy selfish people.

Or, they simply have other priorities. I'm all for supporting my FLGS, but not everyone agrees with that value set. That dosn't make them terrible, just Misguided.

You say potato I say tomato.

What I am saying is, if they can sell games at online price while renting a place, it means FLGS argument "we can't sell at online price, we have a place to rent" is void.

Well I don't know how they're able to make it. I've seen the numbers for my FLGS and they would close selling at online prices. They are barely eeking by as it is. So again no it isn't void.

The reason all these online retailers have BM stores is because GW requires it if you want to be able to get their product. They don't care if they break even operating them, because the BM store isn't where their profits come from. REAL BM stores DO get their profits from their BM stores. So no, the argument is not "void". Not when one is someone's livelihood, and the other is just a way to skirt a rule, and isn't even intended to make money. Miniature market did the same thing in St. Louis, but the stores were a joke. And I say stores, because they constantly moved to cheaper and cheaper buildings when they could find it. I'm willing to be meeplemart has moved a time or two already...

Everything I've ever heard about Meeplemart(which is a bizarre amount given that I'm not from Canada) characterizes them as on the up and up. You're making some hefty assumptions about the owners character.

Lets see if I can paraphrase your comment... "I don't really know anything about meeplemart, and I don't live anywhere near them, but they're good guys...". I never said what they were doing was shady, just explaining why online retailers maintain store fronts. Those store fronts don't need to be profitable, because online sales is where they make their money. Several manufacturers (including GW) will not sell wholesale to stores unless they have BM stores. That is the only reason they maintain them. My whole point was saying "meeplemart maintains a store and can still sell at a discount, so everyone should be able to" is ignorant.

I said you're making assumptions. Nothing more.

Yes, there are game stores that do what you're talking about. But until you see evidence of a business doing so it is better to assume positive things rather than negative things.

And I've just heard Meeple Mart mentioned. A lot. Which is strange, as I pointed out.

Basically, assume the best in people until you have reason not to.

Ok, really short answer is, meeplemart could not keep their store front open as it is without the online store. It's not a sustainable business model. The OP tried to make it sound like it was, and that any BM store could do the same. That was the entire point. Not knocking them, although I'm not a fan of online retailers, so my opinion of them is... not good.

That dosn't make them terrible, just Misguided.

It seems a lot of people assume the L in LGS actually means local, and not simply closest. For me until about a year or so ago, my closest was the FFG event center, which is an hour or so away. That's a place I'd seldom if ever play at. If it was open or closed had no real impact on my ability to play since I never played there in the first place.

For some people a game store offers no real value, because it's too far away to play at or for other reasons. For people like that this 'you must support your LGS' is pure nonsense.

all they need to do is shut up and admit they are terrible greedy selfish people.

Or, they simply have other priorities. I'm all for supporting my FLGS, but not everyone agrees with that value set. That dosn't make them terrible, just Misguided.

No, not misguided. Just a different value set.

That dosn't make them terrible, just Misguided.

It seems a lot of people assume the L in LGS actually means local, and not simply closest. For me until about a year or so ago, my closest was the FFG event center, which is an hour or so away. That's a place I'd seldom if ever play at. If it was open or closed had no real impact on my ability to play since I never played there in the first place.

For some people a game store offers no real value, because it's too far away to play at or for other reasons. For people like that this 'you must support your LGS' is pure nonsense.

And those aren't the people I'm referring to. Although, I'm sure a lot of those people had local stores at one point...

If you want a store to play at, buy at least some stuff in the store.

It's that simple, it is in your own interests to do so.

No store is going to set aside a night or hold events for a game that they can't sell because too many of the players only buy online. They are afterall, a business, and they need to at least be somewhat pragmatic about how the conduct themselves. Hence all the CCG events.

My local store would not be open on Mondays if it were not for the group of people that have been coming to the store to play on Mondays for the last 7 or so years. Even if we don't make our purchases on Mondays the owners recognize that the money we spend, overall, on the stuff we play on Mondays is worth openning the shop despite not making much if any sales on the day. We recognize this fact, so we for the most part purchase our games through the store, because we want a store to play at.

If you don't want a store to play at, buy where ever you want. I'm not going to argue that you should support something you don't plan on utilizing. Just don't be that guy that complains no store near you wants to run events when you aren't willing to by anything not at the online discount price point.

And yes, many big online retailers run stores just to allow them to sell products that won't sell to exclusively online retailers. They can run those stores at a loss because they more then make up for it in the sales of lines they otherwise wouldn't have access to. This is neither shady or anything new.

What I am saying is, if they can sell games at online price while renting a place, it means FLGS argument "we can't sell at online price, we have a place to rent" is void.

Well I don't know how they're able to make it. I've seen the numbers for my FLGS and they would close selling at online prices. They are barely eeking by as it is. So again no it isn't void.

The reason all these online retailers have BM stores is because GW requires it if you want to be able to get their product. They don't care if they break even operating them, because the BM store isn't where their profits come from. REAL BM stores DO get their profits from their BM stores. So no, the argument is not "void". Not when one is someone's livelihood, and the other is just a way to skirt a rule, and isn't even intended to make money. Miniature market did the same thing in St. Louis, but the stores were a joke. And I say stores, because they constantly moved to cheaper and cheaper buildings when they could find it. I'm willing to be meeplemart has moved a time or two already...

Everything I've ever heard about Meeplemart(which is a bizarre amount given that I'm not from Canada) characterizes them as on the up and up. You're making some hefty assumptions about the owners character.

Lets see if I can paraphrase your comment... "I don't really know anything about meeplemart, and I don't live anywhere near them, but they're good guys...". I never said what they were doing was shady, just explaining why online retailers maintain store fronts. Those store fronts don't need to be profitable, because online sales is where they make their money. Several manufacturers (including GW) will not sell wholesale to stores unless they have BM stores. That is the only reason they maintain them. My whole point was saying "meeplemart maintains a store and can still sell at a discount, so everyone should be able to" is ignorant.

I said you're making assumptions. Nothing more.

Yes, there are game stores that do what you're talking about. But until you see evidence of a business doing so it is better to assume positive things rather than negative things.

And I've just heard Meeple Mart mentioned. A lot. Which is strange, as I pointed out.

Basically, assume the best in people until you have reason not to.

Ok, really short answer is, meeplemart could not keep their store front open as it is without the online store. It's not a sustainable business model. The OP tried to make it sound like it was, and that any BM store could do the same. That was the entire point. Not knocking them, although I'm not a fan of online retailers, so my opinion of them is... not good.

Canada is more spread out. Being an online realtor that has a physical store and yet can ship stuff without import waits and the like is a heck of a service for them.

The US has a lot more shady operators and less need.

And I agree, it probably isn't sustainable.

Houston? HOUSTON?!

We have a troll....

That is all.

all they need to do is shut up and admit they are terrible greedy selfish people.

Or, they simply have other priorities. I'm all for supporting my FLGS, but not everyone agrees with that value set. That dosn't make them terrible, just Misguided.

You say potato I say tomato.

I mainly just game with friends at our homes, so I've never gamed at my FLGS and I don't have any reason to think I will in the foreseeable future. They're just a store to me, not a hangout or a place to make friends. I wanted to give them my business when I was buying my first Armada Core, because I like supporting local businesses in general. I expected their prices to be higher than online prices, but I was surprised to find the $100 pricetag on the Core Set when it was $70 everywhere online. I wanted to meet them in the middle somewhere so I could get instant gratification and they could get some business, but they wouldn't even budge $5. So I went online.

I now have two Core Sets, one at $54 from the delayed Amazon January sale and one at the usual $70 price. That totals to $75 less than I would have paid at the FLGS. You're saying I somehow owe that $75 to the FLGS even though I never game there? I should just write them a check for $75 otherwise I'm shooting myself in the foot? Should the entire $75 go to that one store, or should I somehow divide it up between them and the other game stores in town?

all they need to do is shut up and admit they are terrible greedy selfish people.

Or, they simply have other priorities. I'm all for supporting my FLGS, but not everyone agrees with that value set. That dosn't make them terrible, just Misguided.

You say potato I say tomato.

I mainly just game with friends at our homes, so I've never gamed at my FLGS and I don't have any reason to think I will in the foreseeable future. They're just a store to me, not a hangout or a place to make friends. I wanted to give them my business when I was buying my first Armada Core, because I like supporting local businesses in general. I expected their prices to be higher than online prices, but I was surprised to find the $100 pricetag on the Core Set when it was $70 everywhere online. I wanted to meet them in the middle somewhere so I could get instant gratification and they could get some business, but they wouldn't even budge $5. So I went online.I now have two Core Sets, one at $54 from the delayed Amazon January sale and one at the usual $70 price. That totals to $75 less than I would have paid at the FLGS. You're saying I somehow owe that $75 to the FLGS even though I never game there? I should just write them a check for $75 otherwise I'm shooting myself in the foot? Should the entire $75 go to that one store, or should I somehow divide it up between them and the other game stores in town?

I'm sorry you don't see your game store as a hang out. They're great places to be.

But if you're never there then of course skip it. But note that someday that game store may very well dissapear from your community.

Game stores flourish or die based on people using them as a hangout. If lots of people go there, game there, and buy there, they do well.

If nobody goes there nobody plays there. And people stop buying there because they aren't playing there and it's cheaper to buy online.

And then the store dies. And the tournament scene dies. And finding new players gets harder and harder.

And kids stop playing games because they can't buy online.

And then they find other ways to amuse themselves.

It's all a weird capitalist cycle. But many of us are protective of our stores. And we're terrified that they'll lose too much business and we won't have a place to play.

And then all our little spceships will never get used again because our Significant others already loathe the games.

Just don't be that guy that complains no store near you wants to run events when you aren't willing to by anything not at the online discount price point.

Agree with the whole post but this part in particular.

And then the store dies. And the tournament scene dies. And finding new players gets harder and harder.

This is an assumption that's proving to be less and less true as other forms of social contact become more and more common.

Almost all my X-Wing stuff is setup in Facebook and not a random chance meeting. So the idea that we need LGS's for tournaments to happen isn't really true.

The only thing we need is space, and the LGS is clearly a good place to find space, and support, but is not needed.

Well it is and it isn't. For instance you will find it more difficult to get OP kits (though Ebay is there) and you won't be able to get any official events without a LGS.

We've already discussed how different individuals have different imperatives.

I think it helps to realize that different gaming regions are different. Most arguing against game-store loyalty and tribute seem to be saying that they don't tend to have good gaming stores in their area, or at all. Or, they play with a pre-existing group of friends, and have no need for the gaming store's facilities. Also, some gaming stores are just bad.

I'm blessed that I live in an area (Portland, OR) where there are more gaming stores than I'm aware of. I keep finding out about (or recalling) ones that I haven't been to yet. However, there are four main stores that actively host FFG's Star Wars games, and they're located in the southeast, west, center, and in the big suburb north of the river. While distance is a factor for a lot of us who don't have cars or are on a gas/time budget, these stores do have to compete with eachother to keep their clientele satisfied. I think that this competition really helps. (It's awesome when the free market does work!)

So here's the question: what areas have the customer base to support good gaming stores, but don't because the gaming community in that area has chosen to support online retailers rather than brick & mortar stores?

Meanwhile, just thought I'd throw out there that I had an email regarding a question I had from MM come in today. She mentioned that Wave 1 will ship next week. I know Newt (blessed be his name) already called it but thought people would be interested just the same.

Also, a gentle observation that this conversation regarding FLGS has been very respectful amid its strong opinions. Awesome! Let's keep it that way otherwise FFGDave or whomever will come out of hiding again.

For instance you will find it more difficult to get OP kits (though Ebay is there) and you won't be able to get any official events without a LGS.

True, but neither of those things are really required, unless you want to get into the competitive circuit. I do think FFG is a bit short sighted in not offering OP kits to gaming clubs though.

Most arguing against game-store loyalty and tribute seem to be saying that they don't tend to have good gaming stores in their area, or at all.

My only issue is the kneejerk reaction someone people have to buying online, and their attempts to make it an ethical issue.

FFG already has issue with kits being given and not utilized, I don't think they are ready to be giving OP kits out to those without a, relatively permanent, address.

And then the store dies. And the tournament scene dies. And finding new players gets harder and harder.

This is an assumption that's proving to be less and less true as other forms of social contact become more and more common.Almost all my X-Wing stuff is setup in Facebook and not a random chance meeting. So the idea that we need LGS's for tournaments to happen isn't really true.The only thing we need is space, and the LGS is clearly a good place to find space, and support, but is not needed.

If you answered "no" to those questions then you are using LGS's as your place to play those events and relying on them to run it.

So your argument completely falls apart as a whole and you need to realize if you do not financially support those shops they will not let you play there for long. (You are not entitled to use their space for free, they are being nice letting you use that space in the hopes you support them. So are you using them or not?)

And then the store dies. And the tournament scene dies. And finding new players gets harder and harder.

This is an assumption that's proving to be less and less true as other forms of social contact become more and more common.Almost all my X-Wing stuff is setup in Facebook and not a random chance meeting. So the idea that we need LGS's for tournaments to happen isn't really true.The only thing we need is space, and the LGS is clearly a good place to find space, and support, but is not needed.

Finding a public place to meet a relative stranger and play a game is pretty tough.

Public meeting places aren't common.

I'd know. I use them for work all the time(doing activities with at risk youth.)

There are public parks. Great for Frisbee Golf. Bad for Tabletop.

There are Fast Food places. They cost a little money, and work well for card games and other quick stuff. But playing Armada in a Mcdonalds isn't much of an option.

There are places like the YMCA. They have tables(sort of) but aren't meant for gaming and are expensive.

There's(for me) my workplace. But play space is sporadic and people are doing real work. I don't like being disruptive.

There are libraries. But you have to be quiet and prearrange things if they're an option at all.

Game Stores on the other hand. That's what they're there for.

And then the store dies. And the tournament scene dies. And finding new players gets harder and harder.

This is an assumption that's proving to be less and less true as other forms of social contact become more and more common.Almost all my X-Wing stuff is setup in Facebook and not a random chance meeting. So the idea that we need LGS's for tournaments to happen isn't really true.The only thing we need is space, and the LGS is clearly a good place to find space, and support, but is not needed.

Ummmm..... I do have an issue with your statement here. Yes the internet is helping gamers connect but Tournaments and the kits to run a tournament that has tables and mats come from where? Are you renting out a space for a gaming club? Can you host a dozen tables at your house for a tournament?

If you answered "no" to those questions then you are using LGS's as your place to play those events and relying on them to run it.

So your argument completely falls apart as a whole and you need to realize if you do not financially support those shops they will not let you play there for long. (You are not entitled to use their space for free, they are being nice letting you use that space in the hopes you support them. So are you using them or not?)

I could get kits from the local boardgame pub (yeah, boardgames, nachos and beer at the same place and they sell boardgames at online price, they just don't have much space for large game like Armada because the tables are smaller) and I could rent a community room to run the event. And I am pretty sure that Meeplemart and other BM-Online shops could supply them too.

You will ask... but how are you gonna pay for all that? FLGS charge 5-10$ per person when there is an event anyway, so that would cover up the kit and the room.

And like some others mentionned, our games are organized via facebook.