I'm hoping someone can point me in the right direction as to where in the CRB I can find out if the use of the adversary talent or flipping a destiny point are the only ways to upgrade the difficulty when doing a combat check.

In our most recent session our GM began having all of our combat checks against rivals upgraded by one, for example a ranged attack from medium was upgraded from two difficulty die to a difficulty and a challenge. Every rival we encountered was upgraded in this manner. He did specifically mention they were rivals, not nemeses.

He also made an offhand comment about how all rivals are upgraded once and all nemeses are upgraded twice, which didn't sound right to me but I didn't want to argue it. Any advice as to where in the CRB I could find answers to these questions?

Many thanks in advance.

Edit: corrected nemesis verbage

I'm hoping someone can point me in the right direction as to where in the CRB I can find out if the use of the adversary talent or flipping a destiny point are the only ways to upgrade the difficulty when doing a combat check.

In our most recent session our GM began having all of our combat checks against rivals upgraded by one, for example a ranged attack from medium was upgraded from two difficulty die to a difficulty and a challenge. Every rival we encountered was upgraded in this manner. He did specifically mention they were rivals, not adversaries.

He also made an offhand comment about how all rivals are upgraded once and all adversaries are upgraded twice, which didn't sound right to me but I didn't want to argue it. Any advice as to where in the CRB I could find answers to these questions?

Many thanks in advance.

That isn't a rule in the books.

He may be choosing to apply Adversary by 1 to all rivals and 2 to all nemesis NPCs. Seems a bit much to me, but that is for your group to decide.

I'm hoping someone can point me in the right direction as to where in the CRB I can find out if the use of the adversary talent or flipping a destiny point are the only ways to upgrade the difficulty when doing a combat check.

In our most recent session our GM began having all of our combat checks against rivals upgraded by one, for example a ranged attack from medium was upgraded from two difficulty die to a difficulty and a challenge. Every rival we encountered was upgraded in this manner. He did specifically mention they were rivals, not adversaries.

He also made an offhand comment about how all rivals are upgraded once and all adversaries are upgraded twice, which didn't sound right to me but I didn't want to argue it. Any advice as to where in the CRB I could find answers to these questions?

Many thanks in advance.

You're confusing "adversary" with "nemesis". In any case, rivals can also have the Adversary talent. It could have been that the rivals he threw up against you had Adversary 1.

By RAW, you can upgrade difficulties through talents, such as Adversary, or by flipping a Destiny point. Also, there's a few other rules that do this as well, such as upgrading the difficulty of a ranged combat check if you're shooting at an enemy engaged with an ally.

However, also by RAW GM's can do whatever they think best serves the narrative. And it could serve the narrative by using GM fiat to upgrade difficulty as well. My general rule when it comes to this is that if something really bad can happen as the result of a check, then I'll upgrade the difficulty (normally just once) in order to allow for a Despair to be rolled. For instance, climbing a chain link fence might be an average Athletics check with no upgrade. If they fail, they just fall 4 or 5 feet, no big deal. But walking across a bridge over a canyon, while normally being, say, an average Coordination check, might also deserve an upgrade, because if they get a Despair, they could plummet 500 feet to the canyon floor. For something like this, I would just do the upgrade, rather than flip a DP, because it's physics, not fate, that would decide what happens

Just use your best judgement, and don't overdo it; it should be a rather uncommon occurrence. Explain why you're doing the upgrade to instill fear and anticipation in your players about the situation they're in and the possible (dire) consequences of their action. If you're really nice, you may allow them another course of action if they really don't want that upgrade, but I cut them so much slack in other areas of the game, that I'd just mention the upgrade (and the reasons for it) as they're assembling their dice pool

Edit: Just saw his "offhand comment". No, rivals and nemeses do not all get free difficulty upgrades. They need to have the Adversary talent, or maybe a special ability that provides a situational upgrade.

Like OggDude said, the GM's definitely within their discretion to upgrade any checks at any time.

As a GM, I try to do it when I have a specific idea for the Despair that could result. I also tend to use the Destiny Point, mainly because I want to keep the DP economy flowing and if I don't do it then, I end up with a pool full of black Destiny Points and I need to start inventing ways to use them.

Thanks all. BTW I meant to type nemesis rather than adversary. I had the right name in my head, it just didn't translate through my fingers. haha.

This is all good info to have. I co-run AoR in our group, so I feel pretty well versed in the rules, but I didn't know if there was something I was missing.

He also made an offhand comment about how all rivals are upgraded once and all adversaries are upgraded twice...

In any case, that's definitely not true in that it's not a hard rule. As others have noted, it's the Adversary talent that gives an opponent that kind of free upgrade. Nemeses don't automatically get 2 upgrades, it depends on whether they have ranks in Adversary or not.

Now it could be that your GM has just decided that this is his house rule, and he's certainly free to do so...in fact, it's not a bad idea at all But he should know that it's not automatic.

There's also talents like Dodge, Side Step and Defensive Stance. They all upgrade the difficulty of incoming attacks by a number equal to their rank. Of course, they're active-use talents and must be declared, but still.

My character has just been infected with some weird disease, like lycanthropy or something. I'm hoping to at least catch Adversary if I have to go over to the Dark side!

There's also talents like Dodge, Side Step and Defensive Stance. They all upgrade the difficulty of incoming attacks by a number equal to their rank. Of course, they're active-use talents and must be declared, but still.

Well, that's what Adversary is the NPC version of, so the GM doesn't have to faff around.

There's also talents like Dodge, Side Step and Defensive Stance. They all upgrade the difficulty of incoming attacks by a number equal to their rank. Of course, they're active-use talents and must be declared, but still.

Well, that's what Adversary is the NPC version of, so the GM doesn't have to faff around.

NPC creation doesn't follow normal character creation rules. Like Talkie said, Adversary is meant to make the GM's work easier. That way, he doesn't have to keep tabs on strain for every rival/nemesis. So when you build the ennemy your players will encounter, ask yourself if this NPC was a character, would he have dodge or Side Step or Defensive Stance, if so, then you can give him ranks in adversary instead.

So instead of building a huge stat block for your NPCs, following PC creation rules, you just give him the stuff you want and the ranks in adversary you feel is right. The most important thing is to make sure the players find it fair and even.... The hardest opponent I introduced was a Sith Inquisitor with Adversary 2 and Defense 3, making most attacks RRBBB. Since 2 Defense came from her Lightsaber, the players used Triumphs to disarm her and make it easier to hit her and take her down.

I would see my GM doing this as a good thing, because it means only 1 Adversary for Rivals and only 2 Adversary for Nemeses.

When I GM, the sky's the limit on this stuff.

I would see my GM doing this as a good thing, because it means only 1 Adversary for Rivals and only 2 Adversary for Nemeses.

When I GM, the sky's the limit on this stuff.

Wow? Really? I rarely use more than Adversary 1 for most of my villains. I think I have used Adversary 2 just once.

I would see my GM doing this as a good thing, because it means only 1 Adversary for Rivals and only 2 Adversary for Nemeses.

When I GM, the sky's the limit on this stuff.

Wow? Really? I rarely use more than Adversary 1 for most of my villains. I think I have used Adversary 2 just once.

No kidding! I've had to drop Adversary 1 on a group of minions to make them a reasonable challenge for the wookiee marauder. Not that he didn't mow through them anyway....

I would see my GM doing this as a good thing, because it means only 1 Adversary for Rivals and only 2 Adversary for Nemeses.

When I GM, the sky's the limit on this stuff.

Wow? Really? I rarely use more than Adversary 1 for most of my villains. I think I have used Adversary 2 just once.

No kidding! I've had to drop Adversary 1 on a group of minions to make them a reasonable challenge for the wookiee marauder. Not that he didn't mow through them anyway....

Ah, a group with a wookie marauder. Now I see why.

Yeah, my group tends to be less combat oriented while still competent. The adventure they are currently on has the toughest combat beast they have fought to date, but he is actually intended to be a major opponent for the obligation of one of the characters. In fact she just lost an ear during the torture interrogation scene we played through last night.

This big bad only has Adversary 1, but is intended to be a group take down. He is basically a wookie marauder in a human skin.

Ah, a group with a wookie marauder. Now I see why.

Yeah, my group tends to be less combat oriented while still competent. The adventure they are currently on has the toughest combat beast they have fought to date, but he is actually intended to be a major opponent for the obligation of one of the characters. In fact she just lost an ear during the torture interrogation scene we played through last night.

This big bad only has Adversary 1, but is intended to be a group take down. He is basically a wookie marauder in a human skin.

Yeah, that wookiee is one of the most efficient killing machines I've ever had at my table in any game. So of course most problems look like nails to the ol' hammer. I would like to believe I've sharpened my GM skills since I last sat in the chair, so hopefully I can keep things interesting without having to resort to one-upsmanship with difficulties. Same troopers took out the party mechanic in one shot, even though we're all 400XP in.

Good question OP, I was researching that myself and came up with the same question to which I now have good answers.

There's also talents like Dodge, Side Step and Defensive Stance. They all upgrade the difficulty of incoming attacks by a number equal to their rank. Of course, they're active-use talents and must be declared, but still.

All of those are replaced by adversary talent for NPCs so as to free mental bandwidth for GMs. Or I should say that is the point of the adversary talent.

There's also talents like Dodge, Side Step and Defensive Stance. They all upgrade the difficulty of incoming attacks by a number equal to their rank. Of course, they're active-use talents and must be declared, but still.

All of those are replaced by adversary talent for NPCs so as to free mental bandwidth for GMs. Or I should say that is the point of the adversary talent.

Sure, but if I want an NPC to be particularly durable, I give him a couple of ranks in Adversary for general survivability, and then some ranks in Dodge/Side Step/Defensive Stance for those times when he need to be particuarly hard to hit (like when the group's Gand Marauder with his hyper-modded vibrosword- and -dagger steps up for a fully Frenzied Attack.

I actually routinely throw in a Rank of Adversary even on moderately experienced minion groups like Stormtroopers, in order to have a way to trigger "out of ammo" and such.

I used to do this by flipping dark side points, but my players got wise to it and realized if they just hoarded their light side points, their weapons would never run out, a trade-off they considered absolutely worth it (and it probably is)

Also, there are a lot of rolls even in official adventures where the possiblity of a Despair is mentioned and ruled, but the roll itself never has any red dice. In these cases, as a GM, I always upgrade one die to red, because this seems an oversight more than anything.

On a sidenote, there are situations where upgrading dice is a bit of a jerk move: for example, during Negotiation rolls to find rare equipment, spending a dark side point really just says "GM doesnt want you to have the cool item", and creates a much stronger GM vs players feeling ,whereas in a fight, its usually perceived as more of a "this is a badass, he doesnt go down easy" thing.

I used to do this by flipping dark side points, but my players got wise to it and realized if they just hoarded their light side points, their weapons would never run out, a trade-off they considered absolutely worth it (and it probably is)

I don't let my players do this. I was able to talk to them and convince them that the back and forth flow was better overall, but if they had continued I was just goin to flip them all dark and start over again. Thinking they can lock you out is just part of that adversarial approach I'm trying to wean them off. Besides, they now have it worse, because all your stormtroopers have upgraded defence...their shortsightedness has worked against them. I wonder if they know...

For the published modules, they've just included the Depair info in case the GM decides to flip a DP for that roll, it's not an oversight. And I disagree about the "jerk move" for certain rolls, upgrading difficulty doesn't change the odds of failure by much. Getting a Despair doesn't cancel an overall success, it just adds new narrative flavour independent of the success/fail axis.

Like OggDude said, the GM's definitely within their discretion to upgrade any checks at any time.

As a GM, I try to do it when I have a specific idea for the Despair that could result. I also tend to use the Destiny Point, mainly because I want to keep the DP economy flowing and if I don't do it then, I end up with a pool full of black Destiny Points and I need to start inventing ways to use them.

Exactly this, although it's important to not overdo it.

I remember once when my players were attempting to cut open weapon supply crates with a fusion cutter. I set the difficulty at PP to represent opening the crate without damaging the contents. When it came to the crate of grenades however, I set it at RP. And you guessed it, that good old Despair came up...

I didn't kill them outright though

As a GM I feel like I am cheating when I add an adversary talent to the baddie. Mainly because I have a rules lawyer in my group, I have only done it once

As a GM I feel like I am cheating when I add an adversary talent to the baddie. Mainly because I have a rules lawyer in my group, I have only done it once

How is that an issue? It's a legit rule right from the book.

As a GM I feel like I am cheating when I add an adversary talent to the baddie. Mainly because I have a rules lawyer in my group, I have only done it once

You are not cheating. You are substituting 1 option for the myriad of talents that upgrade the difficulty of an attack against a character. Adversary is there so you don't have to remember sense, sidestep, defensive stance etc. You only have to remember one talent and you don't even have to track whether it is up or not. GM's have enough work with out having to micromanage your NPC's talents.

If PC's start hoarding light side DP's at my table they had better look out, nothing says i cant upgrade without flipping a dark side, just that when i do one option i have is to upgrade a check...

Personally i find it much more enjoyable to flip a DP when i introduce a complication to an encounter, such as reinforcements, or a sudden downpour when they are tracking something.'

An AT-AT is a lot worse than the 'chance' of a despair!

Leave the upgrading to challenge dice to the adversary talent and opposed rolls.

In saying that i will in critical or climactic moments upgrade the difficulty with a DP, just those cinematic moments though

One thing you can do also to Upgrade the difficulty (with a nasty pre-determined Despair result) is close in to Engage your PCs. Limit your ranged PCs to shooting into a melee combat, and they stand a chance of hurting their allies instead. Even moreso if the enemy has ranks in the Adversary talent. This can cause the PCs to think outside the box...or sometimes they just take the shot anyway.

My players almost invariably take the latter option. There's something to be said for directness.