I have played this game since day one and I find myself feeling the opposite of Tracker1. This game is better than ever and I feel more motivated than ever to experiment and create new decks. For instance, I just built my first really good mono purple deck with Gloin, Erkenbrand, and Sam and crushed a bunch of quests with it. Pretty fun

Hmm....you raise some interesting points. I really like the newer quests because of their intense narration and strong thematic coherency. Actually, I really enjoy the complex board state we noe get since the Ringmaker cycle with a lot of interaction between the encounter cards and lots of triggers and responses. On the other hand, playing a quest now, also means that a severe time investment because I meticulously check after everys phase all triggers, responses and whatever to make sure I did not miss anything. To me the game feels more intense than ever this way and I love the storytelling and complexity more than ever.

However, I also feel that the quests become quite challenging and more often than I find myself falling back to proven decks and strategies using the same old cards as always rather than facing another humbling defeat while trying out the new cards. Some happened to me with the Lost Realm box as I did not manage to build a solid Dunedain deck. However, now I've gotten used to playing two handed solo (which requires a little time to adapt and get used to the increased management that is necessary) and I really enjoy the increased interaction between different deck archetypes and cards.

So, on the Dunedain topic. I was more focused on Rohan (my favorite tribe) and discovering how much I love Erkenbrand, so I have not been giving it a ton of thought. Here are some ideas.

Tracker1 made some great points about how off flavor the cards are. Dunedain should work solo, because that's what they were like as a people. Dunedain should be more Secrecy and not so Valor, because they work in the shadows. I won't argue with that, but there is one part of the flavor they get right, and that is the key to Lost Realm deck design.

The Dunedain want to find conflict. They work to seek it out. Hobbits avoid. Rangers keep in the staging area or in traps. Classic deck design sees an encounter cards that says "either discard an ally or reveal another encounter card" and thinks, duh, discard an ally. They are annoyed that the deck is punishing them, but they play another ally. Dunedain say, bring on another encounter card. THAT is the Dundas flavor.

Example, with Mablung, tac Aragorn, and Halbarad you play Dunedain hunter to engage an enemy. Mablung gets a resource and Halbarad quests without exhausting, pretty good. After quest, Orc War Party is still in staging. You don't engage, but instead wait until after enemy attacks to kill enemy pulled by hunter. Thus Aragorn pulls Orc War Party, but after enemy attacks. If you can kill, fine, but if not, no sweat, that just means Halbarad can quest without exhausting. Next round Mablung with Gondorian shield defends, shadow card sends orc war party back to staging like a warg, but you had luckily engaged another chump, so Aragorn just pulls him right back again, no big deal. That is the start of an idea of how Dundas works in solo. I know Mablung is Gondor, but it's the same idea. When you figure out how to make that style work, you will figure out how to beat lost realms with Dunedain.

I've tried a ton of Dunedain variations at this point on the first quest. Even tried including lore with forest snare to work with Halbarad. All are pitiful, not even making more than 5 progress on the quest.

I finally said I'll try, tactics Aragorn, Glorfindel sp, and Balin, and turn Aragorn into super hero. Now it beats quest quite easily.

So, this is what I mean by the game forcing me to play certain cards in solo to be successful. I probably played 30 games with all sorts for Dunedain variations with not a single win. Make a unthematic deck with the power cards and win 7 out of 10 games.

So, i'm stuck in a loop. I want to try and use the new tools I've been given, but they don't work on their own, so i have to use the old tools again.

Would really like to see a Dunedain deck for the first scenario?

Tracker1, have you listened to the latest episode of The Grey Company? If not, you should. You also get mentioned.

I think Ian brought iT up, but he also said that it seems the designers tendancy to design stuff that can't be used in their respective box/ap. Ian talked about the faxt that the Dunedain decks don't work that well in Lost Realm, especially not in the first quest. Matthew mentioned Hero Faramir and the objective ally and there are more examples. From me perspective you could try it against other quests first to try them out. (or try multiplayer )

Trialus, when I find the time, I'll post it.

I'm really not too worried about Dunedain viability at this point. Gondor wasn't that viable until we got a few expansion packs into the cycle. Rohan was, but that's because they received so much attention in the Core and the Mirkwood cycle. By the end of the new cycle I think Dunedain will have received enough attention that they can be playable.

In *another game* people talk about whether a card is "constructed playable" when a new set comes out. The cards that aren't (which are most of them) are there to fill out the draft environment and become binder fodder. Those cards can be 2/3s of all the cards printed. We have a similar situation here. When I first see a card now I find myself evaluating it on whether or not it is "solo playable". That's not really fair though since most cards are playable in a multiplayer environment. I don't feel that 2/3s of the cards are worthless in this game by any means. (Which is one of the reasons I started playing two handed.)

To me it feels like a marketing strategy and I have accepted it. They release a big box that is almost playable so that you want to get the other pieces that make a strategy work. They always do this. It's another reason I have not even bothered to try Dunedain, but Silvan is now viable.

From what we've heard a deluxe expansion and the following cycle are all designed in one go. So to judge whether or not Dunedain decks are "viable" really needs to wait until we get to the end of this cycle. I'm fine with that - the alternative is to stuff everything into one place (like they did with Outlands) and run the risk that people will complain that the decks "just build themselves".

For an extreme example, consider Silvan decks. Support for Silvan decks was released through out the entire Ring Maker cycle, however the actual Voice of Isengard box had NO cards supporting a Silvan deck strategy.

For me, as a new player, this game it totally new and open for me, all the quests I am playing are surprising and even after a couple of times playing these quests. For more experienced players, these surprises might not be as big as they once were. This might be because of the limited variation from the encounter deck, instead of when playing versus an actual player with a self-constructed deck. Do you think the co-op format is less durable than competitive format?

The number of coop games continues to explode. There is obviously a huge demand.

Yes, I'm not questioning the demand.

Since I'm reading some, more experienced people, are becoming less enthusiastic about this game, I wonder if that would have something to do with it.

I think the variation in quests and encounter deck is more durable and varied than a non-coop game.

Most 1vs1 games have the same goal every game against your opponent, so the variation comes from their playstyle and whats in their deck... but the aim and structure stay the same as well as some favourite strategies (and i do love those games too).

The lotr format is much more varied than that.

I think if you played the same 1vs1 opponent who had the same deck many times over, you may tire of that opponent and i think that can sometimes happen with lotr with quests often played. However while you cant easily magic up another human opponent, you can get a different quest/encounter out of your box to play, so the durability is there. You just need to change quests at the right rate. (Add thematic deck bui builds and it opens up even further)

Those are some good points.

I have experienced the predictability of other card games myself, knowing that who would win depends only on who draws which cards the first. That is what I really like about this game so far. But I am really wondering how the more experienced players see this.

This topic always cracks me up. I can see the BoD at FFG sitting in a meeting room going "so we have LotR LCG; selling great, awesome story line with great name/brand recognition the world around. Let's dump this turd." You sell something until you don't make money selling it anymore. Apple will keep making iPhones, Microsoft will keep churning out Windows....FFG will keep doing LotR until it either a) stops making money, or b) they run out of good content to work with. So, lets talk about B...

The Saga boxes obviously follow The Hobbit and LotR Trilogy. Very well defined and they will definitely have a finish line to them. The cycles exist in this somewhat nebulous period of time between The Hobbit and Fellowship of the Ring, about 60 years I believe. They can roll around in that for a long time. That being said, I wish that FFG would be putting the full court press on the Tolkein family to get a license for all the First and Second Age content. They could easily pump out a couple more Saga expansions surrounding the Silmarillion, Children of Hurin, etc.

Why this thread is still alive again?..

I don't think we would have ANY content if Tolkein hadn't sold the rights to LOTR/Hobbit. He did not sell the rights to the other materials and Christopher Tolkein has shown he can be fairly irrational. Maybe after someone else is running the estate.