Alright enough of this I'm off to play Armada

Alright enough of this I'm off to play Armada

Oooohhhhh man...

inb4 Starviper squadron for armada

Alright enough of this I'm off to play Armada

Oooohhhhh man...

I know right armada doesn't even have defenders

Suffer a bit more, Star Viper detractors...

Next faction for Armada:

Zann Consortium

Squadron base ships:
StarViper
Skipray Blastboat
Rihkxyrk Assault Fighter

Capital Ships:
Crusader-class corvette
Vengeance-class frigate
Interceptor IV frigate
Keldabe-class battleship

All of them as outrageously op on the table as on the computer

As OP as the StarViper in X-Wing?

Sadly, we'll never hit such under-appreciated highs in Armada

btw, never played SoTE. Those Starvipers have never nice acoustics

I played (and still play now and then) EaW:FoC

We will see. Armada will evolve and sooner or later there will be all rebel and imperial ships.

And maybe then there will be kind of faction releases. Like Black Sun, the Cartel, Mandalore, Zann ...

The sound if a TIE engine is unbeaten, true ^^

I think the biggest point against Starviper lists are the aggressors. They have a similar concept of what you do with them ingame but do it a lot better. So you could say the Starviper is too expensive in comparison. Effectively its also a two ship setup if you give them upgrades so how can they compete?

I also think the base ship is too weak with only the two high pilot ships beeing able to take the title. Moreover the pilot skills are okayish but aren't amazing like some other pilots that you can build a squad around.

Well... it always was compared to the Defender.

I think the biggest point against Starviper lists are the aggressors. They have a similar concept of what you do with them ingame but do it a lot better. So you could say the Starviper is too expensive in comparison. Effectively its also a two ship setup if you give them upgrades so how can they compete?

I also think the base ship is too weak with only the two high pilot ships beeing able to take the title. Moreover the pilot skills are okayish but aren't amazing like some other pilots that you can build a squad around.

eh.............................................................until eternity

I honestly don't see the comparison

The Aggresor is so sharply defined by its single-arc + large base combination that it's almost impossible to elicit a straight comparison. Given how sharply the base limits the thing (really, it's its only weakness) the Aggressor is garbage outside of lists with small numbers of ships (ideally 2, ideally another aggressor...firesprays seem popular partners though).

Thinking about it that way, and the fact that you'll almost never see an aggressor that isn't armed to the teeth to the tune of 50ish points, the Starviper really is nothing like it.

A fully tripped out Guri (predator + thrusters) is cheaper than a naked IG of any description. Guri loves getting into the thick of a hairball and steam-rolling through fools with her action-independent dice modifications and small base maneuvers.

And then there's Xizor...if ever there was a pilot that was as content as could be to be nestled in the warm safety of a gaggle of expendable friendly Z-95s, it's freaking Xizor.

The Aggressor is the roided-out half of a 2-ship build. The Starviper is a mini-swarm's wet dream (and vice versa). I can't see how the two occupy even close to the same space in a list (unless you like using LW, thruster Guri...2 points less than a naked aggressor)

I think the biggest point against Starviper lists are the aggressors. They have a similar concept of what you do with them ingame but do it a lot better. So you could say the Starviper is too expensive in comparison. Effectively its also a two ship setup if you give them upgrades so how can they compete?

I also think the base ship is too weak with only the two high pilot ships beeing able to take the title. Moreover the pilot skills are okayish but aren't amazing like some other pilots that you can build a squad around.

eh.............................................................until eternity

I honestly don't see the comparison

The Aggresor is so sharply defined by its single-arc + large base combination that it's almost impossible to elicit a straight comparison. Given how sharply the base limits the thing (really, it's its only weakness) the Aggressor is garbage outside of lists with small numbers of ships (ideally 2, ideally another aggressor...firesprays seem popular partners though).

Thinking about it that way, and the fact that you'll almost never see an aggressor that isn't armed to the teeth to the tune of 50ish points, the Starviper really is nothing like it.

A fully tripped out Guri (predator + thrusters) is cheaper than a naked IG of any description. Guri loves getting into the thick of a hairball and steam-rolling through fools with her action-independent dice modifications and small base maneuvers.

And then there's Xizor...if ever there was a pilot that was as content as could be to be nestled in the warm safety of a gaggle of expendable friendly Z-95s, it's freaking Xizor.

The Aggressor is the roided-out half of a 2-ship build. The Starviper is a mini-swarm's wet dream (and vice versa). I can't see how the two occupy even close to the same space in a list (unless you like using LW, thruster Guri...2 points less than a naked aggressor)

Wow....you just saved me from typing that up! Seriously, I just hit F5 to make sure I didn't miss something....and you said pretty much what I was going to say. The Starviper is such a different ship. Small base and maxed out around 40 pts.

I mixed up my Xizor list last night and ran him with 5 Binayres instead of with the 3 and Torkhil. It worked out really well! The massed fire of the Z-95's was really useful and being able to shunt off damage to underlings utterly saved Xizor's life. My opponent was gunning hard to take him down and he just couldn't do it. I also found that FCS did increase his damage potential. I'll be sticking with that. It also saved me a point for Inertial Dampeners.

I'll be running something similar tonight

sadly, my opponents have already learned that shooting at Xizor is futile

Of course the large base is a difference that i didnt take into account in the comparison, I don't deny that.

However if you look at the movement template and basic stats the ships are pretty similar in what they can do. If you compare the stats you get 3 shields and lose 1 pilot rating for just 5 points. The maneauvers of both ship types are meant as arc dodgers and both ship types embrace rather more upgrades than less.

The Aggressors are mainly used as two because that makes them even stronger and its also "the new thing" to play around with. Who says its impossible to use a bunch of small ships together with one Aggressor? Even if that moght be the most optimized way to play it, it could work.

So i think its just a matter of perspective and yours is havily shaped into the direction of the current met usage of the ship.

Their dials may be similar, but the base size makes a huge difference. For one, the big ship needs to worry about bumping. It also moves much further. I'll say that the IG-88 is pretty maneuverable, but the Starviper is so much more the knife fighter. It doesn't necessarily need to arc dodge, but it can get into great positions to pour fire on who it needs to and avoid damage from someone else. Think about getting into a furball. The Starviper can easily think about a 1 sharp turn to stay in the fight and get into a good position. The IG-88 will have to really think about that 1 sharp turn as it will most likely bump someone. In fact, any of the short maneuvers will most likely bump someone. It has to be very careful and most likely be the most predictable of the two.

As for points, the both start off close to each other, but look at what the common builds are for the two. If you fully load out a Xizor, you are looking at about 40 pts. If you fully load out IG-88, you are looking at over 50 pts. That's quite a difference. The types of upgrades are very different, especially the Cannon.

Of course the large base is a difference that i didnt take into account in the comparison, I don't deny that.

However if you look at the movement template and basic stats the ships are pretty similar in what they can do. If you compare the stats you get 3 shields and lose 1 pilot rating for just 5 points. The maneauvers of both ship types are meant as arc dodgers and both ship types embrace rather more upgrades than less.

The Aggressors are mainly used as two because that makes them even stronger and its also "the new thing" to play around with. Who says its impossible to use a bunch of small ships together with one Aggressor? Even if that moght be the most optimized way to play it, it could work.

So i think its just a matter of perspective and yours is havily shaped into the direction of the current met usage of the ship.

The dial of a large ship and a small ship can be similar and still never amount to a similar experience on the table (and even then, the dials of the viper and aggressor are very much different). Because the large base is four small bases stapled together, the physical distance they move is greater and the amount of area they have to cover to avoid ships/obstacles/the-table-edge is four times greater. They're much faster, but they are also much more limited in where they can go based on physical size alone.

I also don't see either ship as an arc-dodger (maneuverable, yes, "arc-dodger" no). The Aggressor lacks barrel-roll and is perfectly capable of choo~ choo~ing through plenty of enemy ships just by virtue of its incredible profile and downright scary offense. Meanwhile, I have never felt the need to exercise the least bit of caution with Xizor as long as he has a meatshield friendly to take a dive for help him. Guri is a little less certain, but ideally having a focus on the offense and defense swings things quite a bit and lets her come out on top of many encounters.

Basically, they can arc-dodge. Most of the time, though, they really don't have to. (ie, they're not interceptors)

As for "the new thing" syndrome of double aggressors, imo it also happens to be the most effective way to play them. Again, large ships occupy 4-times the table space of a small ship. It's pretty difficult to justify having to worry about your own ships clogging up the table in addition to your opponent's when you could just use another small base ship instead, or at least a ship with other ways of getting around clumps (firespray auxiliary arc).

@fickle

You say yourself they occupy 4 times the size of a small ship so why couldn't you have 3 ships around with it. I never said you should fly them in a way to block yourself.

@ both

I understand your points, however i never said they are the same ship. Every ship type moves different that doesnt mean you can't compare them.

Weren't Firesprays also played with a bunch of smaller ships? Also yes if you count on having only two ships obviously both will be around 50 points. I think IG-88s can also be player with less than 50 points, so really i don't think thats a prove that the ships cant be used in similar squads.

Nevertheless i didn't want to start a discussion proving they are the same ships. My point was mostly that a lot of ppl tend to go to the IG-88s when considersing low ship amount scum squads. And with a upgrades viper in the list you only have two options either take a mini swarm with it or you'll have few ships.

I ran four naked yesterday. It was mainly for laughs and I just wanted to try it out. Against Etan, Wedge and rebel hwk. I won in about less than 30 mins. Definitely an eye opener for me. I will try this list out a few more times, for sure now.

I understand that people do compare IG-88 and the Starviper. They come out at the same time. They both have S-loops. They have very similar dials. They are on the same faction, so you pick one or the other. I think, though, that they play very differently. Either Guri or Xizor want to be in the middle of the mix and going crazy. IG-88 likes to be on the edge of the mix and firing in with Cannons. They play very different from what I've found.

I think the one upgrade that really bumps the price of IG-88 is the Cannon. It really pushes things higher for them.

I think you can go with one IG-88 and probably a bunch of ships like the Scyk. The Barrel Roll is good when trying to get out of the way of your big ship or block your opponent. I think one reason that people haven't tried it too much is the title card. Also, people don't like Scyks because they cost 2 pts more than an Academy (which is silly to compare to).

I've found that Xizor's ability is underrated. It's pretty hard to kill him when he's around friends. Make sure to give him a Focus and his 3 evade dice means he's not taking a lot of damage unless you flub your rolls. Being able to shunt off 1 hit either prevents you from taking any or helps mitigate a horrible roll. Also, with a higher PS, he can arc dodge the slower ships and try to avoid getting shot at when it's important.

StarViper is one of the 'Special/Prototype' Medium Fighters which have very own special skills:

Empire: Phantom (cloak)

Rebels: E-Wing (combination of speed/system/astromech)

Scum: StarViper (s-loops)

@fickle

You say yourself they occupy 4 times the size of a small ship so why couldn't you have 3 ships around with it. I never said you should fly them in a way to block yourself.

@ both

I understand your points, however i never said they are the same ship. Every ship type moves different that doesnt mean you can't compare them.

Weren't Firesprays also played with a bunch of smaller ships? Also yes if you count on having only two ships obviously both will be around 50 points. I think IG-88s can also be player with less than 50 points, so really i don't think thats a prove that the ships cant be used in similar squads.

Nevertheless i didn't want to start a discussion proving they are the same ships. My point was mostly that a lot of ppl tend to go to the IG-88s when considersing low ship amount scum squads. And with a upgrades viper in the list you only have two options either take a mini swarm with it or you'll have few ships.

as to the first part, because in flying your ships in a way that won't block the aggressor, you are going to have to fly them in a very limited manner compared to how they'd fly with a viper. Hell, Xizor doesn't even care if he bumps a friendly (and he doesn't need sensors not to care, just the knowledge that no one will shoot him) and neither does Guri (provided she has predator, which she should, and is near an enemy)

I did bring up the firespray as a more viable mini-swarm partner. The reason: the auxilary arc. You get far more options for movement that don't result in you losing your shot.

with regards to the last section

I think the biggest point against Starviper lists are the aggressors. They have a similar concept of what you do with them ingame but do it a lot better. So you could say the Starviper is too expensive in comparison. Effectively its also a two ship setup if you give them upgrades so how can they compete?

^

had to clear the air regarding the above

What Starvipers and Aggressors do in game are not at all similar apart from rolling dice The subtle intricacies between the differences in size, cost (i.e, less spent on ship = more to spend on other ships), and abilities drastically influences which roles these different ships can fill.

Since they fulfill completely different purposes in completely different squadrons, I'm confident in saying that the Aggressor does not step on the VIper's toes and vice-versa

StarViper is one of the 'Special/Prototype' Medium Fighters which have very own special skills:

Empire: Phantom (cloak)

Rebels: E-Wing (combination of speed/system/astromech)

Scum: StarViper (s-loops)

and auto-thrusters

Star Vipers win

Ok after all THAT talk ... I need to play with StarVipers soon.

Seems like I get to buy a Most Wanted for the Zs ........

y-wings, hwk, firesprays...but yeah, mostly the Zs