Well, art is subjective. I hate Giger (the artist who did Alien), among other painters. I also have a strong dislike for Howlrunner, but I have reasons other than subjective.

Why don't you like Howl?

Guri with Virago, PtL, Adv Sensors, and Auto Thrusters has been how I've kitted her out.

That's my favorite Guri too! It's super inefficient but pulling off an advanced proton torpedo shot after a s-loop it is just too much fun.

Well, art is subjective. I hate Giger (the artist who did Alien), among other painters. I also have a strong dislike for Howlrunner, but I have reasons other than subjective.

Why don't you like Howl?

1) She costs too much and dies way too early to be worth it. Just expect to lose her by turn 3, which makes me wonder why to take her.

2) She forces you to give up the agility and maneuverability of a Tie Fighter to fly in formation. I think one of the best strengths of the Tie Fighter is to...you know....actually SWARM the enemy. You don't fly in formation. She forces you to give up one of their best attributes.

3) Too many people take her and that just gets on my nerves. I don't think she is auto-include, but I get tired of seeing her. It's getting the same with Soontir Fel. I'm tired of someone asking, "Which of these named Tie Fighter Pilots should I take?" and people just answer "Soontir Fel".

1) By turn three you've usually landed yourself in a parking lot, at which point your ships will scatter to the wind in an attempt to regroup, and Howl's presence will no longer matter anyway. At that point she's just a fragile, glorified PS8 dogfighter, but there's some redeeming value in that.

2) Again, that formation is more or less gone by turn three, or shortly afterwards. A handful of ships will still benefit from her ability, but there's no compulsion to put everything back into a strict formation at that point.

3) I suppose that's a subjective call, but her ability just becomes better and better with every additional ship you take. With a genuine swarm she really is an auto-include, and she's also one of only three TIEs that get an EPT slot. There's something to be said for sharing that PS8 with Swarm Tactics.

I get it, she's overplayed, but for good reason. If I'm going to win I'd prefer to do it with an original list, but I'm not going to flat out ignore one of the single most potent abilities in the game to do it.

I do admit that I worry my Xizor doesn't do enough damage.

after wave 7 lands I plan to try a Xizor-on-drugs build, with glitterstim, AdvS, auto thrusters, and an Advanced Proton Torpedo. EPT is probably VI. Super-high threat early-on, decent threat later on. High cost, but benefits from the ability and ATs for protection until he drops his torpedo on someone's head. It should really leverage the usefulness of his ability, and I look forward to trying it out.

Instead of turn 3, I should say "second round of shooting....at best". I usually see Howlrunner dead before you break apart. It's usually in the first round of shooting, but sometimes in the 2nd. That's well before the break up of formation. She usually doesn't contribute much to the combat in the games I've seen. I've had much better luck with not taking her. Then again, I've had much better luck not flying in formation. That's what I call a "true swarm".

To each their own. I'm not going to browbeat you into running Howl, but I am curious to know the circumstances of those games you've played. Worst case scenario, it sounds like she was an 18 point Biggs, and that's not an altogether bad thing. Was she paired with the usual Hull Upgrade and/or BSP with DtF?

Instead of turn 3, I should say "second round of shooting....at best". I usually see Howlrunner dead before you break apart. It's usually in the first round of shooting, but sometimes in the 2nd. That's well before the break up of formation. She usually doesn't contribute much to the combat in the games I've seen. I've had much better luck with not taking her. Then again, I've had much better luck not flying in formation. That's what I call a "true swarm".

It's that bullseye on Howlrunner that is her other potent use. When enemies take Range 3 shots PS 8 ship that has already fired instead of Range 2 shots on PS 1 Ties that will easily get PS killed, games get won. I just know I've won games because the Swarm gets to molest my opponent at Range 1/2 while they take shots at Range 2/3 on Howlrunner. Or they ignore her, and obviously that is useful too.

Apparently Howlrunner is so auto-include that you can't make a thread without her

To be fair the reason I purchased the S&V Wave was for the cards.

Well, art is subjective. I hate Giger (the artist who did Alien), among other painters. I also have a strong dislike for Howlrunner, but I have reasons other than subjective.

Why don't you like Howl?

Because I'm a Wishbone pilot.

Eh, we all know howlrunner's a chump

why waste time helping others when you can spend that time helping yourself?

Xizor knows. He's the man with a plan.

boom, thread back on track

I love how the Viper flies with Advance Sensors. So many options. Guri was rocking house for me last Sunday.

She MIGHT have had a few too many upgrades but she had

Lone Wolf

Virago

Advanced Sensors

Internal Dampeners

Autothrusters

40 point Xizor with VI, fire control system, flechette torp, inertial dampeners and autothrusters really pulled his weight in the regional I went to (batte report link in my sig), while hes the most expensive ship in my list he's also the most survivable, and end game as long as I have a Z or 2 still around I can pull some nice shenanigans still.

Flechette torp was so so good at ps 9 vs anyone who likes to use PTL, just wish I could nudge myself down from 100 points.

I'm yet to give guri a try, though for a cheaper starviper she could be nice I guess, just changes the dynamics of the list.

Good battle report. I'm really impressed with the Flechette Torpedoes. I wouldn't have thought they would be that effective, but they were. Great to hit their ace with. I might see if I can put that in. Also, it makes me consider VI for him. If I'm going to Regionals, I should worry about the PS game.

The one thing I worry about with 5 Z-95's is getting outflanked. I haven't played a huge number of games with Torkhil, but I like having the Ion Turret. How would you rate that change? Or would it take away too much Z-95 firepower?

Well the last game vs 3 ptl stealth autothruster Interceptors was just painful, but I really didnt fly well. 5 Z's are there to put out some firepower, and to force bumps and protect Xizor.

Flechette torp was orignally added to the list to counter agressor's, as I found their 3 agility combined with focus and evade rather tricky to break through (quite a few of my fellow 186 players run ptl and adv sensors as standard on their agressors). But it was also useful in all the games I had at the regional even without facing any agressor's.

Torkhill is very nice, but if I see Torkhill he's my number one target, part of the joys of having 5 regular guys is there's no obvious target, apart from all 5 of them I'd consider swapping 2 z's for a y wing with ion and maybe the title, as that would leave me at 99 points.

Hmmm....that would mean needing to buy another Most Wanted and then still borrowing another Z-95 card! I did find $10, but that's only a 1/4 of the way there....

Being somewhat mediocre and hard to use effectively and also being unpopular with the Star Wars fandom is not a good combination for a ship's usage.

If there has to be ships in the game that don't see play, I'd rather it be the Starviper than the X-Wing.

Actually that's where you're wrong, unpopular with purists? Yes. Unpopular the fandom? No. It is one the most known and liked starships in the EU.

Try E-wing or K-wing (both of which *I* like, but not everyone else is enlightened like me :D)

I may have misused the term fandom to mean every fan of Star Wars, although I'm not sure what you mean by "purist". I haven't consumed enough EU material to consider myself part of the fandom, but I'm certainly a fan and not limited to the 2014 canon established by Lucasfilm. The opinions I've heard of the ship are that it's either ugly or that it's not that ugly. Either way, the varying degrees of "ugly" and "doesn't look like Star Wars" get used a lot when I hear people talking about the ship. What I'm not hearing is EU fans talking about waiting to fly the Virago the same way people were excited about being able to fly the Outrider.

OP was pointing out that he's not seeing anyone putting the ship on the table or talking about using it. If Scum is a relatively popular faction in his area, then there are really only 2 possible reasons for this: A) the players in his area don't like the Starviper enough subjectively to bother putting it on the table and find out how great it is or B) the ship is considered so weak by everyone that's used it that even the players that like it as a ship refuse to play it.

If enough people were a fan of the ship, then OP would see people playing it regardless of how good it is on the table. People will play what they like. There are other unlikely possible reasons for OP not seeing or hearing about Starvipers (maybe the Interceptor players bought them all and threw the models in the garbage and the store refuses to restock), but most likely it's either A or B, and I'm not convinced it's not both. This is just my personal opinion based on what I've seen and heard, YMMV.

Being somewhat mediocre and hard to use effectively and also being unpopular with the Star Wars fandom is not a good combination for a ship's usage.

If there has to be ships in the game that don't see play, I'd rather it be the Starviper than the X-Wing.

Actually that's where you're wrong, unpopular with purists? Yes. Unpopular the fandom? No. It is one the most known and liked starships in the EU.

Try E-wing or K-wing (both of which *I* like, but not everyone else is enlightened like me :D)

I may have misused the term fandom to mean every fan of Star Wars, although I'm not sure what you mean by "purist". I haven't consumed enough EU material to consider myself part of the fandom, but I'm certainly a fan and not limited to the 2014 canon established by Lucasfilm. The opinions I've heard of the ship are that it's either ugly or that it's not that ugly. Either way, the varying degrees of "ugly" and "doesn't look like Star Wars" get used a lot when I hear people talking about the ship. What I'm not hearing is EU fans talking about waiting to fly the Virago the same way people were excited about being able to fly the Outrider.

OP was pointing out that he's not seeing anyone putting the ship on the table or talking about using it. If Scum is a relatively popular faction in his area, then there are really only 2 possible reasons for this: A) the players in his area don't like the Starviper enough subjectively to bother putting it on the table and find out how great it is or B) the ship is considered so weak by everyone that's used it that even the players that like it as a ship refuse to play it.

If enough people were a fan of the ship, then OP would see people playing it regardless of how good it is on the table. People will play what they like. There are other unlikely possible reasons for OP not seeing or hearing about Starvipers (maybe the Interceptor players bought them all and threw the models in the garbage and the store refuses to restock), but most likely it's either A or B, and I'm not convinced it's not both. This is just my personal opinion based on what I've seen and heard, YMMV.

Most opinions I hear about the look of the StarViper is that it's a good looking ship. Also if that 2nd statement was true, there would Defenders everywhere yet I don't see them?

Purist means those really annoying people who refuse to accept anything beyond the original 3 movies as being real Star Wars.

The StarViper's problem is it doesn't fit in any defined roles and nobody wants to try and figure out where it fits in

Problem is that i don't play scum very much as I am primarily imperial. Guri is **** good though.

Problem is that i don't play scum very much as I am primarily imperial. Guri is **** good though.

Yeah, I'm just not into Rebels much. I love Imperials and have some fun with Scum, but whenever I make a list....it's just not with Rebels.

I guess that's why I ordered a custom made Imperial Fleet Officer hat!

Tie pilot costume here.

I'll try scum eventually. They just need a bit more variety.

I don't dislike Rebels, and I love y-wings, A-wings and B-wings.

Tie pilot costume here.

I'll try scum eventually. They just need a bit more variety.

I don't dislike Rebels, and I love y-wings, A-wings and B-wings.

Traitor!!

You have been reported to imperial intelligence. You have 48 hours to report to detention block 1138 or we will be forced to send a squad up for you.

Tie pilot costume here.

I'll try scum eventually. They just need a bit more variety.

I don't dislike Rebels, and I love y-wings, A-wings and B-wings.

Traitor!!

You have been reported to imperial intelligence. You have 48 hours to report to detention block 1138 or we will be forced to send a squad up for you.

Uh, everything's under control. Situation normal.

Uh, we had a slight weapons malfunction, but uh... everything's perfectly all right now. We're fine. We're all fine here now, thank you. How are you?

I've a funny story about when I GM'ed a game, and one of the stormcommando team the players played misinterpreted a command from another of the players to destroy the base' computer. 1 Entire base exploding under said player later....