I wonder if the double IGs might be one of the lists that could go after Xizor first. With the HLC(s), you can overwhelm his ability to deflect incoming fire, especially if he doesn't have a focus.

I actually considered it for a few moments before our initial engagement, knowing that the Z's weren't really a threat outside of Range 1. Here's the trick, though: I'm betting it all on my ability to get past Xizor's green dice.

Let's say that I am able to finagle a good enough roll and land 4 hits with the HLC. Let's also assume that Xizor has a focus on defense - because with FCS he may not always need it on offense - so he should, statistically, come up with at least a couple of evades, so I punch a couple of damage through. You'll shake one of those off to an adjacent Z and take a damage. The Mangler will have a slightly harder time breaking through, but let's assume a similar result since it would be firing second and you've probably burned your focus token. Again, you take a point and shrug one off. For all that effort, I very likely could have removed one of your Z's from the board and have less incoming fire to defend against.

For IG, it's about thinning the herd. The fewer shots he has coming in, the more likely he is to have tokens to generate misses or arcs he can get out of. Killing Z's off is what I want to do, and it is probably what you would rather me do as it leaves your most dangerous piece on the board, untouched and free to act as he wishes. Those green dice on the StarViper simply make it more likely that some of my damage will be negated, and what isn't will end up dealt to a target of your choosing, not mine.

Now, if I were running a mini-swarm of my own, I would probably play that match very differently. I have incentive to gun for Xizor in that match, as the more dice I throw at him, the more likely he is to fold early. But with only 2 guns to point at you each round and flying a ship that is allergic to large numbers of enemies, killing the Z's and weathering the damage that Xizor throws at me is probably my best play. That's not to say if you made a mistake and hung him out where I could get him I wouldn't take the shot, only that as long as you are flying him the way you should, it's not in my best interests to shoot at him until I've shot down a significant portion of his meatshields.

Does anyone else feel Xizor (And to an extent, Guri) are seriously hampered by their lack of PS? They're the factions arc-dodging aces, but when I've tried them they just don't have the PS to back it up, and filling their Elite slot with VI leaves them lagging behind a PTL interceptor or whatever Corran is up to these days.

I get that the faction is meant to be lower PS (Though it only took until Scum's second wave for that fiction to be squished with a PS9 not-an-Xwing!), but in the case of the StarViper, even an extra point apiece would've been nice. Probably my biggest gripe with an otherwise excellent Ace ship.

I think all the starviper needs, like all elite ships is more pilots. Most ships are better when one has a bit more to chose from.

Personally, if the attitude above is what regionals repersent, I really couldn't be bothered. Had my lot of gamers like that when I played yu-gi-oh ages ago.

Go, create the Avatar as a StarViper pilot.

And don't forget about the Eight Virtues:

Honesty, Compassion, Valor, Justice, Sacrifice, Honor, Spirituality and Humility

I don't think the Starviper needs more pilots. Most of the bulk pilots of the Interceptor are hardly used now.

Do you even remember who Tetran Cowall or Lt. Lorrir are?

Fel's Wrath and Kir Kanos are crap.

Turr Phennir is used only for budget Soontir.

Carnor Jax takes Sithlord level abilities to fly. (Good, but super darnably hard and doesnt show up in meta).

RGs are dead imo competitively. (Though some seem to fly them out of love casually).

Sabers are dead.

Avengers are what? what are avengers? We have avengers?

Alphas are crap. (though fun casually).

--

Tie fighters:

winged gundark is crap

night beast is ok

dark curse is defeinitely decent.

mauler mithel pops like a bubble.

backstabber is good.

See? With more pilots there is a fair chance that there are actually some useful amongst them. Even it its only one.

So, more pilots are always better.

Alpha's are pretty **** awesome thank you very much. If they came in the aces pack ad opposed to only coming in the interceptor expansion we'd see more of them.

I think all the starviper needs, like all elite ships is more pilots. Most ships are better when one has a bit more to chose from.

Personally, if the attitude above is what regionals repersent, I really couldn't be bothered. Had my lot of gamers like that when I played yu-gi-oh ages ago.

Go, create the Avatar as a StarViper pilot.

And don't forget about the Eight Virtues:

Honesty, Compassion, Valor, Justice, Sacrifice, Honor, Spirituality and Humility

"Let me show you the world, in all it's magnficiant splendour, come and ride on my magic carpet, I actually can't remember this song..."

XD I add an avatar later. Even when I was more forum savy, I often made very little use of them.

And ehh, in regards to the interceptor it's a inherently frail craft thus naturally only the best pilots see the field often because it's an all or nothing ship. It will either do well with it's manvourablity or it doesn't; everything relies on it's ability to be extremely mobile thus naturally the pilots with the best skill rating end up at the top as players generally prefer to respond rather then predict the actions of the other ships. Tie fighters are in a similar boat, but the tie fighter is so cost efficient anyway that the pilot could be considered an "upgrade". As is the X-wing, which perhaps bares the most similarity in the "must be cost efficient pilot" role.

In the starviper it's a generally a robust and flexible enough ship that it doesn't quite face the same pressure for a high pilot skill and effect. Plus at the moment neither Starviper is what I would consider a "staple" pilot. They both do well but not so much so that one makes the other invalid, just Xizor is easier to build lists around out of the two pilots while Guri tends to be "the second dagger" pilot.

I don't think the Starviper needs more pilots. Most of the bulk pilots of the Interceptor are hardly used now.

Do you even remember who Tetran Cowall or Lt. Lorrir are?

Fel's Wrath and Kir Kanos are crap.

Turr Phennir is used only for budget Soontir.

Carnor Jax takes Sithlord level abilities to fly. (Good, but super darnably hard and doesnt show up in meta).

RGs are dead imo competitively. (Though some seem to fly them out of love casually).

Sabers are dead.

Avengers are what? what are avengers? We have avengers?

Alphas are crap. (though fun casually).

I'd just like to point out that I made Top 8 in a Regional with a 3 Interceptor list (Fel, Turr, Jax) and that someone else finished first with a 3 Interceptor list (Fel, Jax, Royal Guard), so it's not just Fel that is worth it. For my list, I could have switch Jax for Tetran and it would have been the same result. Still, of those 2 lists, half of the pilots (Jax and RG) come from the Ace pack, so more pilots can be useful, it actually allow us to use a 3 Interceptor list without relying on the Saber Squadron as the third wheel.

That being said, I don't think the Starviper needs more pilot to be competitive, just people getting more used to it. It's been what, 3 months since Wave 6 came out, and most people took the easier road and got used to the IGs first in prevision of the Regionals. I think that the Starviper and Scyk just need more time for people to crack them out: we already see a couple of Xizor list in Top 8 of Regionals.

So, I ran VI Xizor + 3Z's and a Warthog Ion Y-wing and felt it did well.

I have had a thought, switch the Y-wing for Torkil Mux + Blaster Turret.

So

Xizor + VI + FCS + Thrusters + Dampeners + Title

3x Z95

Torkil Mux + Blaster Turret.

Comes in at 97 points.

Makes any one with a higher PS is np longer a threat and makes the PS1 Swarm even stronger.

Thoughts? Is it better than having another 2 Z's?

Also means less chance of a Z going pop before it gets to fire.

I would rather run Palob but then you run the risk of not getting the Initiative bid.

I run Xizor with 3 Z's, but add Laetin with stealth and mangler, for ultimate long range flanker

@betes: Thanks! I appreciate the input. I'll need it this weekend for a Spring Tournament.

@TheRealStarkiller: I lived in Austin, Tx for a bit and met a guy who was working on Final Fantasy 8 (or whichever it was back in 1998-99). He worked for the company and the owner created Lord British and called himself such. From the opinion of the guy who met him, he was a bit of a pompous ass, but threw an incredible party.

Didn't get game night for family reasons last night. I've got a Store Championship to try out my Xizor list. Well, I've had some games, but can count them on one hand. So, I'll be winning it tomorrow. No idea how many people in Asheville, NC.

Sooooo how about some builds?

You mean besides the ones already mentioned? I guess it is 19 pages of stuff to go through. I'll be taking this list tomorrow:

Prince Xizor w/ VI, Virago, FCS, Inertial Dampners, and Flechette Torpedoe

5 x Binayre Pirates

I have a buddy who likes to fly generic Star Vipers in his lists. We are pretty casual on game nights, but he's really happy with his. I haven't flown against him with that list, though.

Want to know why Starvipers are fantastic? Just run 4 naked PS1 Enforcers. Before your theorize what you think will happen and what will beat it... just go do it. There is a very good reason why FFG did not make these guys 23 points (I still wish they would have mind you).

For those of you wanting this to be a B-wing or an Interceptor: Please continue to think this ship sucks. I personally want to continue to be the only person flying them in numbers.

For those curious about possible lists and tactics:
https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/137397-the-scarlet-cross-with-pictures/?hl=%20kath

(Two page thread, my Starviper build is featured on page 2)

I thought final fantasy was square enix, and Lord British was Ultima (so... origin?)

Want to know why Starvipers are fantastic? Just run 4 naked PS1 Enforcers. Before your theorize what you think will happen and what will beat it... just go do it. There is a very good reason why FFG did not make these guys 23 points (I still wish they would have mind you).

For those of you wanting this to be a B-wing or an Interceptor: Please continue to think this ship sucks. I personally want to continue to be the only person flying them in numbers.

For those curious about possible lists and tactics:

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/137397-the-scarlet-cross-with-pictures/?hl=%20kath

(Two page thread, my Starviper build is featured on page 2)

What is your tactics with 4 Vipers?

And how does your startin setup looks like?

I thought final fantasy was square enix, and Lord British was Ultima (so... origin?)

Ultima rulez!

I thought final fantasy was square enix, and Lord British was Ultima (so... origin?)

OK...maybe it was a different company. Game designers in the same city (Austin) makes it a small network, though. I do know he went to one of "Lord British's" parties. It has been a long time (crap! 17 years?!?!? I'm old).

I thought final fantasy was square enix, and Lord British was Ultima (so... origin?)

Ultima rulez!

I've only played ultima IV - Y-E-A-R-S ago.

I do intend to get ultima 7 from gog and run it with exult. just need the time.

Every time I see those bumper stickers with the American flag and the words POWER IN PRIDE, I keep thinking about how Pride is a false virtue.

You need to master all of the 8 virtures to become the Avatar.

If you master only one, though, you might become an American.

You mean besides the ones already mentioned? I guess it is 19 pages of stuff to go through. I'll be taking this list tomorrow:

Prince Xizor w/ VI, Virago, FCS, Inertial Dampners, and Flechette Torpedoe

5 x Binayre Pirates

I have a buddy who likes to fly generic Star Vipers in his lists. We are pretty casual on game nights, but he's really happy with his. I haven't flown against him with that list, though.

I think I'm going to run something similar for the one regional I'm going to. Unless the Raider hits before...

Xizor + VI + ATs + Virago + FCS + ID

Thug + ICT + BTL-A4 + Agro

BSS

Binarye X 2

I lose 2 Z-95 but get some control and better burst damage with the Thug. I actually only own 1 Most Wanted so I have only 2 Binarye hence the BSS. But I had an extra point anyway so why not.

Yeah, I had to spend $20 on 2 more Z's and I have to borrow a card and ship token for another Z.

I'm strapped. With Armada being a near future purchase and the **** Raider... I might need to sell an organ.

I'm strapped. With Armada being a near future purchase and the **** Raider... I might need to sell an organ.

Good thing you have 2 kidneys!