There's literally NOTHING in this game that can't be solved with a 2 point reduction.

Arvel Crynyd. He actually got a 2 point reduction and still nobody plays him.

Fels Wrath ... would you with play him If he would be only 21 points? ^^

There's literally NOTHING in this game that can't be solved with a 2 point reduction.

Arvel Crynyd. He actually got a 2 point reduction and still nobody plays him.

Fels Wrath ... would you with play him If he would be only 21 points? ^^

What do you mean "only" 21 points for Fell's Wrath

You tryin to rip me off here ?

There's literally NOTHING in this game that can't be solved with a 2 point reduction.

Arvel Crynyd. He actually got a 2 point reduction and still nobody plays him.

Arvel is an arch-dodger killer. The trick is, you have to be really good at blocking. Soontir running into Arvel is bad news for the now tokenless Soontir who WILL be shot by Arvel and will not get to return fire (if he even survives).

Is someone saying Arvel is OP?

Arvel needs an exception on the Dreadnaught Title. The Decimator and Arvel both need that title.

Ya Ya ya.... enough talk.

Lets see some of you "Pros" taking these Starviper lists and winning regionals etc.

I think all the starviper needs, like all elite ships is more pilots. Most ships are better when one has a bit more to chose from.

Personally, if the attitude above is what regionals repersent, I really couldn't be bothered. Had my lot of gamers like that when I played yu-gi-oh ages ago.

LORD BRITISH!!!

Is it really you????

IM A GREAT FAN!

Plus we've already had xizor + 5 zS taking several top 8s

Of course you could always just try it for yourself instead of waiting for some "superpro" to tell you everything's gonna be alright

I'm not waiting for anyone to "tell" me how to play DS.

Top 8 isn't bad but again not that impressive either.

Does nothing to show how solid this ship is to those who are doubters.

Why don't you get out there and put play your list at regionals to show us all wrong FGD.

LORD BRITISH!!!

Is it really you????

IM A GREAT FAN!

Ahahahah, aye I am. Though I am not a house hold name like Lord Biscuit. I am not quite as ediable.

I'm not waiting for anyone to "tell" me how to play DS.

Top 8 isn't bad but again not that impressive either.

Does nothing to show how solid this ship is to those who are doubters.

Why don't you get out there and put play your list at regionals to show us all wrong FGD.

Ahhhh fair enough. I'll see about getting some games in, likely that won't happen since I am unaware of any overly competative enviroment over in the UK

jesus, it's amazing how demanding people can be

all them more reason to fly the megalomaniac prince, it fits them to a T

well, it's up to you how ridiculous you want your standards to be. The ship stacks up well to established power pieces and is starting to make a good showing at competitive events. If not seeing it take number 1 regularly when it's not been out for that long somehow gets in the way of you flying the Viper, it's only your loss

All my contributions to this thread are tying to acomplish are to showcase how it's been effective for me personally, and specifically how the Viper's strangeness might lead to some misinterpreting its strengths. I mean, it is a very strange ship (just look at it!)

I'm not waiting for anyone to "tell" me how to play DS.

Top 8 isn't bad but again not that impressive either.

Does nothing to show how solid this ship is to those who are doubters.

Why don't you get out there and put play your list at regionals to show us all wrong FGD.

lol

You are pretty demanding. I posted that I took the list 5-0 to top 8 at a recent 30 person store championship, 4-1 and then won another 30 person store championship, and then went 6-0 to top 4 at a 50 person regional. And the list I defeated in top 8 was a mirror match, so 2 of the Xizzzzzor lists made top 8. What more do you want? Funnily enough, the regional was at Team Covenant and according to some of the spectators, while we were playing our top 8 mirror match, SableGryphon and the other commentators were debating whether it was a "real" list or not. It's real enough for me.

I'm not waiting for anyone to "tell" me how to play DS.

Top 8 isn't bad but again not that impressive either.

Does nothing to show how solid this ship is to those who are doubters.

Why don't you get out there and put play your list at regionals to show us all wrong FGD.

AKA, ignore all evidence to the contrary.

Look, it's fine if the ship doesn't work for you. Different playstyles and all that. But making the cut at Regionals is a pretty big indicator that the ship has competitive options.

You are pretty demanding. I posted that I took the list 5-0 to top 8 at a recent 30 person store championship, 4-1 and then won another 30 person store championship, and then went 6-0 to top 4 at a 50 person regional. And the list I defeated in top 8 was a mirror match, so 2 of the Xizzzzzor lists made top 8. What more do you want? Funnily enough, the regional was at Team Covenant and according to some of the spectators, while we were playing our top 8 mirror match, SableGryphon and the other commentators were debating whether it was a "real" list or not. It's real enough for me.

Don't feel bad, by his apparent standards BBBBZ isn't that good either...

In the current results from Regionals, only 4 BBBBZ lists made Top 8, with only 1 making Top 4.

And I'm sure a LOT more people brought BBBBZ to Regionals than Xizzzzzor...

I've had a couple of people PM me and ask for general guidelines about how I fly the list, especially against the typical meta lists.

First off, I'll give a disclaimer that I typically fly very off the cuff. I have a consistent setup for the squad, but asteroids and everything else is subject to variation. I don't stick to a script. Might have better results if I did, but that takes some of the fun out of it for me. I typically set up in a loose block of ships in one of the corners facing the center of the board. Xizor is in the very back corner. I slow roll a little to see where the opponent is planning on engaging. If they split up (like a lot of double YT, phantom/deci, Soontir/deci builds do), I will try to isolate and engage one ship quickly. If they start directly across, I'm in a good position to turn in with a hard 2 and joust. Otherwise I slow roll to the center until I'm ready to go, then I choose a target and go.

General guidelines:

• I keep the Zs in a loose block. They are there to swarm and overwhelm. Taking up lots of space is helpful. They don't need to be within range 1 of anybody, so as long as they are close enough to focus fire, that's good enough for me. It also helps to block exit lanes for my opponent.
• Don't be afraid to self-bump and make a parking lot. You can trap an enemy ship and melt it under heavy Z fire.
• Xizor should go 1 speed slower at the beginning to separate himself a little. This gives him space so if you need to make a parking lot with the Zs, he can usually do a 1 forward and still not bump. You can always barrel roll or boost if you get too far away from the Zs.
• I've had bad luck sending Xizor off to fight 1 on 1 flankers. Sometimes I will float him out a little to the side to keep that option viable, and often the threat of him coming to strike will keep their flanker away. Xizor can then rejoin the main group.
• ALWAYS keep 1 Z minimum within range 1 of him. Even if they have to bump. In the end game, even if they need to land on an asteroid it can be worth it to keep him alive.
• Don't be afraid to flee with an injured Z. It gives them the conundrum of whether to chase and choose suboptimal flight paths or whether to start again on a fresh Z.

Brobots: This list always intimidates me, but I haven't lost to it with the Xizor swarm yet. I just pick the target of opportunity. Don't really care which robot, you just have to kill one ASAP. IG-B isn't usually that big of a threat, especially with HLC since they rarely miss on the first shot. Try to force good blocks. My most common use of inertial dampeners is to keep Xizor behind an IG that just Slooped. Once he is behind them, they're on death row. He can tear them up with FCS enhanced range 1 shots.

Double phantom or phantom/Soontir: Spread the Zs out to block and make navigating difficult. Kill whichever one you can and then keep Xizor and at least 1 Z alive until time. Haven't figured out a way to kill the second one.

Decimator and phantom/Soontir: They will usually float and try to get you to chase. Most people will keep their arc dodger way back. I will float Xizor out laterally to threaten their arc dodger without going too far. Slow roll until the decimator has to choose a flight path, then intercept with the Zs. Make sure you can get multiple Zs shooting at the decimator for at least 2 combat rounds. Decimator usually goes down on the second or third combat round. Then keep Xizor and at least one Z alive until time. Never have killed Soontir with this list. I "beat" the winner of the TC regional at time but never even took Soontir's stealth device off. Killed Chirpy without losing a Z and then chased Soontir for an hour...sigh...

BBBBZ: Haven't actually faced this with the Xizor list. I would say go for the block, make a parking lot to block their K turns and focus range 1 shots to take down B wings as fast as possible. Keep Xizor alive at all costs. He can solo a couple of B wings.

TIE swarm: I beat an unconventional swarm at the first store championship. It was 4 AP, defender ion, bomber prox IIRC. Beat a 7 TIE swarm in my first store championship and then lost to the same guy in top 8. Both victories, I was able to get a solid block with the Zs and melt a couple of TIEs early, then outlasted to time, only losing 1-2 Zs and killing 3-4 TIEs. In the rematch with the 7 TIE swarm, he switched up his approach and denied me the chance to block and my Zs just couldn't touch the 3 AGI TIEs. Really rough game. You've gotta get the block for a decent chance. TIEs with focus are just too hard to hit with 2 ATT.

Han/Corran and double YT: Just go for the target of opportunity. If the YT has engine, make sure you engage in a place where they can't run on the next turn. You have to ensure 2 rounds of concentrated fire. Same goes for Corran with engine. Don't let him run. Clog the field with the Zs and block, then Xizor can take him out. If you can get R2D2 Corran to where he is stuck on greens to keep recharging shields, get Xizor behind him and he can't turn around to fight. His greens will give up at some point to repeated FCS-enhanced range one shots.

I think that covers most of the big meta lists. Basically I choose the most opportune target and focus fire. Always keep Zs near Xizor. He only rolls blanks on greens in my experience and you NEED autothrusters and the Zs to keep him alive. Let me know if there is anything else to cover. Good luck guys. It's a fun list to fly.

And remember, the StarViper isn't an interceptor. It's a B wing with an amazing K turn and less red on the dial. And an engine upgrade. And autothrusters.

I've always found it interesting to see people try to classify the StarViper as "like" something else. I think it's folly to try and lump it in with existing ships. It probably plays most similarly to a B-Wing, but there are some pretty staggering differences that mean it doesn't play exactly like a B-Wing.

I had the privilege of playing against one of the Xizor + Meatshield lists in Tulsa and thoroughly enjoyed the game while learning quite a bit. I have been putting my focus into learning the Aggressor, but I am excited to see folks learning the StarViper because I think it's a great ship.

I love running things nobody else runs. I play a game pretty much everyday at lunch and 2-3 games on Thursday nights and Sundays. So I get to through out all kinds of lists. The Starviper for me is a very undervalued ship. Just keep Guri close to the enemy or keep your mini swarm close to Xizor. Either way you are mitigating some damage from them. Xizor is surprisingly hard to kill. Put him in the middle of a 5 Z-95 swarm and he just seems to never go away.

I've always found it interesting to see people try to classify the StarViper as "like" something else. I think it's folly to try and lump it in with existing ships. It probably plays most similarly to a B-Wing, but there are some pretty staggering differences that mean it doesn't play exactly like a B-Wing.

I had the privilege of playing against one of the Xizor + Meatshield lists in Tulsa and thoroughly enjoyed the game while learning quite a bit. I have been putting my focus into learning the Aggressor, but I am excited to see folks learning the StarViper because I think it's a great ship.

If you were running Brobots (B with mangler, D with HLC) then you played me and that was a great game.

If you were running Brobots (B with mangler, D with HLC) then you played me and that was a great game.

Aye, that was me. It was a great game. I was more than a little bummed that I was only able to get 3 Z's off the table in exchange for 88D, but given the giant traffic jam that was most everything from Turn 3 on, it was a heck of a lot of fun. =)

And remember, the StarViper isn't an interceptor. It's a B wing with an amazing K turn and less red on the dial. And an engine upgrade. And autothrusters.

and free evades if Xizor

And I'm sure a LOT more people brought BBBBZ to Regionals than Xizzzzzor...

Z-zor !

yet another way to piss off sticklers for pronunciation

Thank you for your input Betes. After giving your list a try (as it looked rather different and no one at my flgs was really running star vipers) I added a flechette torp, but that gives up the Initiative choice.

I still need to get better at blocking with Z's, as I'm used to using ties or interceptors for that and really miss the hard 1 and barrel roll, but I love how much more survivable the Z's are compared to ties.

I do fly my swarm slightly differently though, setting up in two rows of three in a corner, facing up the board, giving me room to turn in if they set up for a unfavourable joust, or to move up and engage in the centre. I love the tactic of keeping xizor one speed back, hadnt considered that.

Because I have no self control in regards to X-wing, I just got a third Starviper so I can fly three naked with two Z-95s.

If you were running Brobots (B with mangler, D with HLC) then you played me and that was a great game.

Aye, that was me. It was a great game. I was more than a little bummed that I was only able to get 3 Z's off the table in exchange for 88D, but given the giant traffic jam that was most everything from Turn 3 on, it was a heck of a lot of fun. =)

Yeah that is how most of my games against robots have gone. If I can have a Z survive the initial engagement and then flee, it's off to a good start. Our opening was weird and I had a terrible time trying to maintain shots after the bumpfest. Different dice rolls and you could have dropped the Zs a lot faster, and I would have been in trouble. Sometimes I'll get a couple of double evade rolls from one of them and that's hard to overcome.

I wonder if the double IGs might be one of the lists that could go after Xizor first. With the HLC(s), you can overwhelm his ability to deflect incoming fire, especially if he doesn't have a focus.

And remember, the StarViper isn't an interceptor. It's a B wing with an amazing K turn and less red on the dial. And an engine upgrade. And autothrusters.

and free evades if Xizor

And I'm sure a LOT more people brought BBBBZ to Regionals than Xizzzzzor...

Z-zor !

yet another way to piss off sticklers for pronunciation

Yeah I always pronounce it Z-zor. Don't really care if it's wrong.

Thank you for your input Betes. After giving your list a try (as it looked rather different and no one at my flgs was really running star vipers) I added a flechette torp, but that gives up the Initiative choice.

I still need to get better at blocking with Z's, as I'm used to using ties or interceptors for that and really miss the hard 1 and barrel roll, but I love how much more survivable the Z's are compared to ties.

I do fly my swarm slightly differently though, setting up in two rows of three in a corner, facing up the board, giving me room to turn in if they set up for a unfavourable joust, or to move up and engage in the centre. I love the tactic of keeping xizor one speed back, hadnt considered that.

Np, and keep practicing with the Zs. They can be very tough and efficient. The lack of barrel roll hurts a bit, but that's why I try to spread them out to cover a larger area.

Because I have no self control in regards to X-wing, I just got a third Starviper so I can fly three naked with two Z-95s.

I like your style. I think the StarViper is similar to the E wing in that the named pilots are amazing while the generics are a bit overcosted, but it's definitely worth a try and will be fun to fly.