Simple put, ordinance is NOT worth the points! You are always better just getting an extra ship!

For example;

For 7 points I can to equip a HLC and have a 4 dice attack, I don’t need a Target Lock, or focus, (And I can even be stressed) and still attack. And I will be able to use either a Target Lock or a Focus to modify the dice during the attack.

So if I use the heavy Laser cannon over 6 rounds I get 24 dice of damage for 7 points. Not hassle to use and with dice modifies!

If I use 8 points to purchase either two torpedoes or two missiles, I only get 8 dice of damage over 6 rounds (And if I miss those points were really wasted). There are a lot of hoops you have to set up just to be able to attack with ordinance, and the lower your pilot skill the harder that becomes. And you won’t have any dice modifiers, (95% of the time). Even with EM and MFS, which brings the point cost to 11 points, I will still get 8 dice over 6 rounds, With no dice modifies!

If you were to purchase a Tie Fighter or a Z-95 for 12 points, you get 24 attack dice over 6 turns, you also get for hit points to add to your build, and other really useful things like getting in peoples way, (Blocking)

Everyone just has to face facts. Ordinance is Never going to be effective nor worth the points. FFG is Never going to fix it so called “Problem”, to the satisfaction of every one. They just seem to want to clutter up the play with more useless cards.

I wish FFG would throw ordinance out the window and allow every to mount HLC!

I say just duct tape the Heavy Laser Cannon to your Tie Fighter and have fun!! Talks about a good dogfight! Here the one who maneuvers the best survives!

HLC A-Wngs so we don't have to play any other ship ever!

Trust me. We know.

We really really know.

I feel, in my very limited experience with this game, that "fixing ordinance", especially missiles and torpedoes, could be quite simply done. Make it so the smaller fighters that have them now, such as x wing and a wing, can take 2, and give them the ability to twin link them!!!! so, u get 8 dice to roll in one go. BOOOM!!!

The Extra Munitions card might make more of an impact on the current ordnance. It's going to make it much more efficient to outift a bomber now.

Still, how many attack dice will you get over 6 rounds, and how many points does it cost you.

These card are actually making the problem worse. More points for less effect.

Simple put, ordinance is NOT worth the points! You are always better just getting an extra ship!

For example;

For 7 points I can to equip a HLC and have a 4 dice attack, I don’t need a Target Lock, or focus, (And I can even be stressed) and still attack. And I will be able to use either a Target Lock or a Focus to modify the dice during the attack.

So if I use the heavy Laser cannon over 6 rounds I get 24 dice of damage for 7 points. Not hassle to use and with dice modifies!

If I use 8 points to purchase either two torpedoes or two missiles, I only get 8 dice of damage over 6 rounds (And if I miss those points were really wasted). There are a lot of hoops you have to set up just to be able to attack with ordinance, and the lower your pilot skill the harder that becomes. And you won’t have any dice modifiers, (95% of the time). Even with EM and MFS, which brings the point cost to 11 points, I will still get 8 dice over 6 rounds, With no dice modifies!

If you were to purchase a Tie Fighter or a Z-95 for 12 points, you get 24 attack dice over 6 turns, you also get for hit points to add to your build, and other really useful things like getting in peoples way, (Blocking)

Everyone just has to face facts. Ordinance is Never going to be effective nor worth the points. FFG is Never going to fix it so called “Problem”, to the satisfaction of every one. They just seem to want to clutter up the play with more useless cards.

I wish FFG would throw ordinance out the window and allow every to mount HLC!

I say just duct tape the Heavy Laser Cannon to your Tie Fighter and have fun!! Talks about a good dogfight! Here the one who maneuvers the best survives!

I'm just curious: when you run HLC, do you actually get to use it every round, with dice modification? That hasn't been my experience at all.

When I can get 4 Proton Bombs (a 20 point value) for 12 points, I think that's a pretty good deal. The ability to one-shot a Phantom, E-Wing, or squad of Z-95s in a single turn is pretty valuable in my book. Not to mention that HLC doesn't do you any good if your opponents is capable of dodging your arcs or closing to R1.

Depends. I don't think the Jonus squads would be nearly as effective.

I'm just curious: when you run HLC, do you actually get to use it every round, with dice modification? That hasn't been my experience at all.

Respectfully, not really the point. The point is that it is possible to fire your heavy laser cannon every round and that is the damage potential over a six round period. If you use a longer time period, you will find that ordinance becomes worst over time. Conclussion is that ordinance, no matter how you slice it, is not point effective. ( What I need is a Spock like person to calculate statistics.) Every one is trying to "Fix" ordinance, and it will NEVER happen. And I find that really sad, for many reasons.

I'm just curious: when you run HLC, do you actually get to use it every round, with dice modification? That hasn't been my experience at all.

Respectfully, not really the point. The point is that it is possible to fire your heavy laser cannon every round and that is the damage potential over a six round period. If you use a longer time period, you will find that ordinance becomes worst over time. Conclussion is that ordinance, no matter how you slice it, is not point effective. ( What I need is a Spock like person to calculate statistics.) Every one is trying to "Fix" ordinance, and it will NEVER happen. And I find that really sad, for many reasons.

First, an increase from 2-4 attack dice is more significant than 3-4. This means 2 attack ships make better use of ordnance.

Second. Ships with low durability do not last 6 turns so in an environment where all that matters is the win low cost ordnance carriers can have a bigger impact due to their ordnance.

There are ways to make ordnance points effective.

The issue is that ordnance is very difficult to use at the best time. But the point cost is not the big issue.

When I can get 4 Proton Bombs (a 20 point value) for 12 points, I think that's a pretty good deal. The ability to one-shot a Phantom, E-Wing, or squad of Z-95s in a single turn is pretty valuable in my book.

I personally would spend maximum effort to send that ship to the bottom, it would not get a chance to use all 4 Proton Bomb. it would be luck is use 2.

Not to mention that HLC doesn't do you any good if your opponents is capable of dodging your arcs or closing to R1.

More importantly, This also applies to Ordinance.

And it drawing that fire(given a bomber's durability) can be just as bad for you as you letting it live.

Mmm I have to respectfully disagree with you. First proton rockets is the most satisfying 3 points I have ever spent on my Vader and I got to finals at my SC with that. His prockets swung every game I was in greatly in my favor.

Second it depends on the ship and the situation. I find clusters on scum boba to be very effective. Much moreso than a mangler or a HLC since half the time o fire from the rear.

Third sometimes adding in an extra 12 pt ship will cost you games. That's why that 87 pt phantom list even existed. If I were them I would have considered a missle or torp long before a third fragile ship.

I'm just curious: when you run HLC, do you actually get to use it every round, with dice modification? That hasn't been my experience at all.

Respectfully, not really the point. The point is that it is possible to fire your heavy laser cannon every round and that is the damage potential over a six round period. If you use a longer time period, you will find that ordinance becomes worst over time. Conclussion is that ordinance, no matter how you slice it, is not point effective. ( What I need is a Spock like person to calculate statistics.) Every one is trying to "Fix" ordinance, and it will NEVER happen. And I find that really sad, for many reasons.

There are some logic flaws here.

First, an increase from 2-4 attack dice is more significant than 3-4. This means 2 attack ships make better use of ordnance.

Second. Ships with low durability do not last 6 turns so in an environment where all that matters is the win low cost ordnance carriers can have a bigger impact due to their ordnance.

There are ways to make ordnance points effective.

The issue is that ordnance is very difficult to use at the best time. But the point cost is not the big issue.

Respectfully there is no flawed logic here, this is pure statistics. Your first point isn't logical, The higher the pilot skill has more to do with efficiency than whether your ship primary weapon is 2 attack dice or 3 attack dice. And for the record, I have seen low durability ship last over 20 turns. For you last point, there are many who would totally disagree with you on that one, (Ordinance cost too much for a one shot item, and it is very difficult to use!) It is always better to get another ship than to use ordinance.

You are always better off just getting an extra ship, than using ordinance!

Firstly, ordnance.

Secondly, I don't see any two point ships.

I'm just curious: when you run HLC, do you actually get to use it every round, with dice modification? That hasn't been my experience at all.

Respectfully, not really the point. The point is that it is possible to fire your heavy laser cannon every round and that is the damage potential over a six round period. If you use a longer time period, you will find that ordinance becomes worst over time. Conclussion is that ordinance, no matter how you slice it, is not point effective. ( What I need is a Spock like person to calculate statistics.) Every one is trying to "Fix" ordinance, and it will NEVER happen. And I find that really sad, for many reasons.

There are some logic flaws here.

First, an increase from 2-4 attack dice is more significant than 3-4. This means 2 attack ships make better use of ordnance.

Second. Ships with low durability do not last 6 turns so in an environment where all that matters is the win low cost ordnance carriers can have a bigger impact due to their ordnance.

There are ways to make ordnance points effective.

The issue is that ordnance is very difficult to use at the best time. But the point cost is not the big issue.

Respectfully there is no flawed logic here, this is pure statistics. Your first point isn't logical, The higher the pilot skill has more to do with efficiency than whether your ship primary weapon is 2 attack dice or 3 attack dice. And for the record, I have seen low durability ship last over 20 turns. For you last point, there are many who would totally disagree with you on that one, (Ordinance cost too much for a one shot item, and it is very difficult to use!) It is always better to get another ship than to use ordinance.

I call nonsense.

You are always better off just getting an extra ship, than using ordinance!

Firstly, ordnance.

Secondly, I don't see any two point ships.

I just want to be sure of your point. Are you saying that ordinance is fine, just the way is?

I personal can always use two points that is not ordinance.

You are always better off just getting an extra ship, than using ordinance!

Firstly, ordnance.

Secondly, I don't see any two point ships.

I just want to be sure of your point. Are you saying that ordinance is fine, just the way is?

I personal can always use two points that is not ordinance.

Your claim is that I'm always better off with another ship. I'm not sure how I'm meant to replace the two points I spent equipping an R3-A2 X-wing with a Flechette Torpedo for double stressing an opponent can instead be used to buy another ship.

It depends: Often the secondary weapon in partcilar must have a value assigned to it that it must earn back in the short time period it is used. Cards like extra ammunations basically allow you to treat the card as two copies as far as effects go which may or may not be potent.

Issue is, single use cards either have to be very powerful for it's cost or reliable enough in order to be worth the shot. In this high HP ship game, there are very few cards that could ever quailify for that role. To name a few:

Assualt Missles (Potential for immense damage is ripe against swarms. You must hit with it however and it is expensive, plus double ship builds tend to laugh it off after shrugging off the blow..)

Mines in general (Proton Bombs are at the extreme range and is actually hard to justify, but theres no denying that an extra attack per turn is often good value. It often inflicts enough damage to be effective and reliable for cost as no roll is required,)

Cluster Missles (on certain builds, throwing two lots of attacks against a low agility target is incredably effective.)

It reminds me of an example in Warhammer of the Space Wolves army, Grey Hunters were an all round unit that had access to a 10 point banner; this could be used to give the entire unit a reroll of 1 on a 6 sided dice on a charge. Needless to say it could make the unit weathher an assault or deliver one more effectively for a turn. In the grand scheme of things, 10 points in a 1500 point list was big enough to be a sangicant investment, but small enough not to be a major factor in a list. Not a lot of weapons have that level of efficency here, even cannons argueably have to overcharge for the fact that your gaining a constant bonus throughout the game.

You are always better off just getting an extra ship, than using ordinance!

Firstly, ordnance.

Secondly, I don't see any two point ships.

I just want to be sure of your point. Are you saying that ordinance is fine, just the way is?

I personal can always use two points that is not ordinance.

His first point is that you use ordnance for attacks and not written decrees called ordinance in this game.

Also congratulations if you can always find a good way to spend 2 points. The earliest ordnance may be very lackluster but the newer stuff has gotten better.

I'm just curious: when you run HLC, do you actually get to use it every round, with dice modification? That hasn't been my experience at all.

Respectfully, not really the point. The point is that it is possible to fire your heavy laser cannon every round and that is the damage potential over a six round period. If you use a longer time period, you will find that ordinance becomes worst over time. Conclussion is that ordinance, no matter how you slice it, is not point effective. ( What I need is a Spock like person to calculate statistics.) Every one is trying to "Fix" ordinance, and it will NEVER happen. And I find that really sad, for many reasons.

There are some logic flaws here.

First, an increase from 2-4 attack dice is more significant than 3-4. This means 2 attack ships make better use of ordnance.

Second. Ships with low durability do not last 6 turns so in an environment where all that matters is the win low cost ordnance carriers can have a bigger impact due to their ordnance.

There are ways to make ordnance points effective.

The issue is that ordnance is very difficult to use at the best time. But the point cost is not the big issue.

Respectfully there is no flawed logic here, this is pure statistics. Your first point isn't logical, The higher the pilot skill has more to do with efficiency than whether your ship primary weapon is 2 attack dice or 3 attack dice. And for the record, I have seen low durability ship last over 20 turns. For you last point, there are many who would totally disagree with you on that one, (Ordinance cost too much for a one shot item, and it is very difficult to use!) It is always better to get another ship than to use ordinance.

So a Z-95 doesn't get more out of a missile than a Firespray?

I call nonsense.

Once again, respectfully not the point. If this is a logical point for you, more power to you. To me the Missile or Torpedo still cost 4 points (I'm just using the Proton Torpedo or the Concussion Missile for these examples. These ordinance still has the same change to hit or miss, no matter who fired it. Higher skilled pilots will get a better chance to use there ordinance, than the "Type" of ship. The statistical point stated in the OP, still stands.

The problem with rocket ordnance (missiles and torpedoes) is one of points. When you bear in mind that firing a secondary weapon means not firing the primary, ordnance is only worth its advantage over the primary attack. This means any 3 dicer ship isn't getting that much out of rockets. Of the two dice ships, the A-wing and Scyk have to pay a two point premium, making ordnance even less attractive, the TIE advanced is incentivised to use its primary weapon and the Z-95 wants to act in numbers. And as the OP says, twelve points of Cluster Missiles on 3 Z-95s probably isn't significantly better than 4 Z-95s unless you're fighting a Decimator.

The rules for firing ordnance are fine. What ordnance needs is more value, either by making it independent from the primary attack (currently my favourite although I've yet to test it), having it cancel evade dice when it hits or by printing new ordnance that's just plain better value.

His first point is that you use ordnance for attacks and not written degrees called ordinance in this game.

Decrees.

Once again, respectfully not the point. If this is a logical point for you, more power to you. To me the Missile or Torpedo still cost 4 points (I'm just using the Proton Torpedo or the Concussion Missile for these examples. These ordinance still has the same change to hit or miss, no matter who fired it. Higher skilled pilots will get a better chance to use there ordinance, than the "Type" of ship. The statistical point stated in the OP, still stands.

The value of ordnance definitely does depend on the primary weapon of the ship that fired it because of opportunity cost. Attacking with a secondary weapon means not attacking with the primary weapon. A TIE advanced gets more out of a Proton Rocket than a TIE defender. It's still 5 dice, but the TIE defender would have otherwise rolled 4 and the TIE advanced otherwise would have rolled 3. The Y-wing gets more from the Proton Torpedo than the X-wing does.

You are always better off just getting an extra ship, than using ordinance!

Firstly, ordnance.

Secondly, I don't see any two point ships.

There is always an exception to the rule, Always. :-) But for 2 points, i'm thinking Seismic Charge, Fire Control System, Up grade to a higher level pilot skill, add a crew member, or a elite pilot upgrade. And for three points, I would add an extra hull or stealth device