To be completely up front and honest, I love the Defender and have had good luck with them in tourneys, but readily acknowledge that they are expensive and deceptively fragile. I have also stated many times on these forums that I do not agree with the majority of proposed fixes, as most proposals try to make the Defender into a beefy interceptor. However, one thing that cannot be argued is that the Defender has unique handling characteristics. Any boost to the Defender should enhance or compliment its character and not try to force it into another niche.

What defines the Defender?

-The while K-turn lets it disengage and still apply damage, and while it is predictable, it is not especially easy to counter

-The statline has good firepower and great durability.

-The cannon slot help the Defender to engage at range and deliver telling blows early.

-A broad set of maneuvers gives a lot of movement options though color makes high speed maneuvers the norm.

~Only having straight greens and no 1-straight makes clearing stress difficult, so PTL is not especially attractive nor are the few red maneuvers on the dial.

~Red hard turns makes traditional knife fighting a terrible proposition, especially given the above.

-Too expensive to joust cost effectively, so you have to try to outfly the opponent.

Simply improving turn ability will not help the Defender plus it fill force it into the Interceptor's niche, so we should look for something different. How about this:

Add a Defender only upgrade (title/mod/missile/cannon), TBD points, "Before you reveal you dial you may perform a free boost action using a 2-speed template."

This upgrade makes the Defender faster and more responsive, thereby following the fluff more closely, without substantially improving the turning or interaction with stress.

So, why boost before dial?

Boosting prior to moving changes final post-maneuver orientation but does so before the move. For fast moves, this means the final position is further from the original position. Also, it makes it interactions with obstacles less likely to be positive. It is very hard to dodge behind a rock without hitting it when you boost before doing your straight action. Boosting before moving also increases the final positions for a 4K to 4 from one, making the turn much harder to block but still pretty predicable. Having this type of arc dodging also makes the much neglected Onyx pilot much better, since the PS3 would actually mean something.

Why speed 2?

A speed 2 boost makes the Defender feel like the speed demon it should be while not being strictly better than the speed 1 boost. A speed 1 boost is easier to block and allows for tighter turning radius, while a speed 2 boost is harder to block and forces a wider turn. Note it is still possible, though difficult, for a single small ship to completely block all possible s2 boost locations. Speed 2 actually makes it harder to get out of arc while making it easier to pull range. As discussed earlier, the Defender's flavor is to either fight at range or rush in and out, not get into a turning fight, so I believe speed 2 is the best option.

Isn't this like the OP decloak shenanigans FFG just fixed?

Not really. With decloak, phantoms had at least 3 separate locations they could decloak to, making full blocking exceedingly difficult and ship intensive. Boost can be blocked by a single well placed ship. Furthermore, the overall coverage of final locations for a Defender using this upgrade is smaller, making it easier to keep a Defender in arc. The Defender's red hard turns and weakness dealing with stress also contributes to making this upgrade weaker than old cloak mechanics.

What about PTL and stress?

Stress is still extremely painful for a Defender using this upgrade. Clearing stress is still limited to straight turns (though the unknown "Twin Ion Engine X" upgrade with the Punisher might change this). Having stress shuts this upgrade down, so besides red turns being extra risky, stress-based control lists are a real threat. Strangely, PTL might be more viable with this change, since it can trigger off the boost and then be cleared in a subsequent green straight.

So, how much should this cost?

This is a hard question. Essentially, this becomes an unconditional action that the Defender does not natively have and is performed as if the ship had Advanced Sensors. My gut values this at 5-6 points. Defenders are likely overcosted by 2-4 points and are already quite expensive, so I feel like 1-2 points is appropriate if it were a mod or title A major concern is stacking up cost on generic defenders. A Delta with an ion cannon and this mod at 2pts would be 35pts, which about the maximum I could see myself spending on this.

What are your thoughts? Feedback is appreciated

Nah.

The issue with the Defender isn't that it can't bust, it's that the Defender has a high cost for its damage output/longevity ratio. It pays large base prices for heavy fighter health. The three agility aren't reliable enough. It either needs to be made more efficient at dealing damage, or made rugged to get some more hits in.

This is a nice rundown, and represents an good stab at making Defenders better.

I find it interesting that the X-Wing and the Defender are the two purest jousters and they're both suffering from similar pricing issues. Both of them also suffer from a lack of upgrade slots.

I like the general idea of doubling down on the Defender's Zoom and Boom style. By adding that level of mobility, you potentially create a new method of arc dodging. It's also possible that it won't quite be enough. Playtesting will tell.

A couple thoughts I've had:

Title: "after you perform a red maneuver, you may turn the base of the ship 180 degrees."

Cannon: (2 points Defender only)

4 dice

After this attack hits, the defender is assigned an ion token.

Cannon: (2 points Defender only)

3 dice

After this attack hits, you may assign the defender a stress token.

Let's make the Defender a control ship! Let's negate its lack of survivability by making other ships unable to do anything at all.

I have also stated many times on these forums that I do not agree with the majority of proposed fixes, as most proposals try to make the Defender into a beefy interceptor.

It seems to me that giving the defender actionless advanced sensors super-boost gets you pretty close. The comparison with pre-nerf decloak seems pretty apt; dialing in a 4K would be very strong, since the defender pilot would have several options for where the ship would land.

I would really like defenders to get some sort of defensive upgrade, since I find them to be particularly fragile, making it difficult to earn back their points.

I suspect the actual fix is going to involve ion tokens, though.

Integrated Cannons

Modification, TIE Defender only, 1 point.

When you make an attack with a Cannon secondary weapon, you may immediately make an attack with your primary weapon against the same target.

Adding a speed 2 boost before revealing the dial must be tested.

Maybe this is a good idea. Its revolutionary.

I'd even give it a try in my next games.

Until then my favourite Defender fix is the combination of this 3 items:

Fire-Linked Ion Cannons

Cannon upgrade, Tie Defender only

3 Attack; If the attack hits the defending ship is assigned an ion token.

3 points

Mottis' Refit

missile upgrade, Tie Defender only

- 4 squad points

Black Squadron Training

title, Tie Defender only

+ 1 EPT slot

0 points

The most thematic fix I believe is:

Linked Ion Cannon

(TIE Defender only)

After you perform a primary weapon attack, you may perform an attack with the Linked Ion Cannon on the same target.

It has the same effect as a normal ion cannon.

(Cannon, Attack 3, Cost 0)

Free hlc. You know it would fix.

Free beer would fix too

You have identified all of the Defender's weaknesses but haven't really solved them. Someone remind me why we shouldn't be considering the Defender as a beefed up Interceptor? It's not a Phantom and it doesn't have to have some silly gimmick. It's supposed to be a brawler, the best starfighter created in its time.

I'm not sure why FFG decided the Defender should only be able to fly comfortably in straight lines, nor am I happy with ANY of the pilots (Vessery is the best of a bad bunch). Pilot skill of 1 for a DEFENDER pilot!? Where are the EPTs for the generics? Dial needs far more green - it needs the Interceptor dial at least. Considering the cost of fielding a Defender is so high, why can't it be stupidly powerful? Personally I think the Rebel B-wing is too cheap for the power it brings.

What are your thoughts? Feedback is appreciated

The generics are fundamentally overcosted and no change to the dial will be able to redeem them, especially one that requires sinking more points into them. This would include theoretically giving them every single maneuver in the game as a green move.

The reasoning is fairly simple: they have the same stat line cost efficiency as the better turreted ships. Given the choice between getting a superior dial or a turret for the same price, the turret is always going to win out.

If the Defender is a beefy int, then it and the int share a niche, then one will be "better" and the other won't see play. Looking and the X and B is a good example of what happens when two ships share a niche too closely.

I got a fix.

150 point standard.

What are your thoughts? Feedback is appreciated

The generics are fundamentally overcosted and no change to the dial will be able to redeem them, especially one that requires sinking more points into them. This would include theoretically giving them every single maneuver in the game as a green move.

The reasoning is fairly simple: they have the same stat line cost efficiency as the better turreted ships. Given the choice between getting a superior dial or a turret for the same price, the turret is always going to win out.

What are your thoughts on a free BTL like title for the Defender? Would the extra attack make up for the over costing of the Defender and the additional cost of the cannon?

Tractor Beam

Modification

Defender only

Action: Select one enemy ship at range one (even one that is out of arc) roll 2 attack dice, for every hit rolled assign a Tractor Token to the ship, for every tractor token that ship must reroll 1 of its successful defence dice when defending. Remove these tokens at the end of the combat phase.

Alternatively when at Range 1 of an obstacle you may treat all hard turn maneuvers to that side as a green manuever

I think either of these options would be kinda fun and unique

Tractor Beam

Modification

Defender only

Action: Select one enemy ship at range one (even one that is out of arc) roll 2 attack dice, for every hit rolled assign a Tractor Token to the ship, for every tractor token that ship must reroll 1 of its successful defence dice when defending. Remove these tokens at the end of the combat phase.

Alternatively when at Range 1 of an obstacle you may treat all hard turn maneuvers to that side as a green manuever

I think either of these options would be kinda fun and unique

The tractor beam is better suited to a passive Cannon slot upgrade.

Tractor Beam

Cannon. 2 points. When you attack an enemy ship at Range 2 you may reroll one defensive die, or at Range 1 you may reroll up to two defensive dice.

Cannon is definitely the place to start, it is the only upgrade slot the defender has that makes it unique within its role in Imperial squad building (small base, high agility cannon platform).

I have mentioned it once or twice before but I really like the idea of just a title that gives a simple -3 point cost to cannon upgrades. That allows a free ion/flechette cannon or a 4 point heavy laser cannon, which helps both the generics and the named pilots be a bit more cost efficient and able to actually bring something to the table for their base cost.

Alternately, I have also really liked the idea of being able to inflict both ion and damage affects in the same attack by thematically linking the Ion cannons, so I could see something like that potentially being useful for the TIE Defender.

Beyond that, I think we're crossing our fingers for the TIE Punisher's upgrade card to potentially improve the dial in some fashion. Considering how strongly the R2 and unhinged astromechs can affect a ship's dial I'm really hoping for a significant dial improvement at a low cost.

Cannon is definitely the place to start, it is the only upgrade slot the defender has that makes it unique within its role in Imperial squad building (small base, high agility cannon platform).

I have mentioned it once or twice before but I really like the idea of just a title that gives a simple -3 point cost to cannon upgrades. That allows a free ion/flechette cannon or a 4 point heavy laser cannon, which helps both the generics and the named pilots be a bit more cost efficient and able to actually bring something to the table for their base cost.

Alternately, I have also really liked the idea of being able to inflict both ion and damage affects in the same attack by thematically linking the Ion cannons, so I could see something like that potentially being useful for the TIE Defender.

Beyond that, I think we're crossing our fingers for the TIE Punisher's upgrade card to potentially improve the dial in some fashion. Considering how strongly the R2 and unhinged astromechs can affect a ship's dial I'm really hoping for a significant dial improvement at a low cost.

Title:When attacking with an Ion Cannon/Flechette cannon do not cancel Dice results?

Potentially 4 Damage from those cannons would be interesting (1 point from the effect for hitting + up to 3 more from the dice themselves if it would use this wording)

Gundog, that is a very cool idea.

I think you guys are on the right track. And I really like Gundogs example, but I think this will improve on that idea just slightly:

Cannon Upgrade - Fire Linked Ion Cannons, 1 point

Imperial only (or defender only)

Whenever you hit with your primary weapon, the target receives one Ion Token.

The benefit of this is that it leaves the modification and title slots open.

It also only requires one upgrade card, which is nice.

If you wanted to get really interesting, you could have it cost a bit more and add an attack die as well.

It's always bothered me that the defender has to choose between guns and ion cannons when they should be able to do both.

What do you guys think?

What are your thoughts? Feedback is appreciated

The generics are fundamentally overcosted and no change to the dial will be able to redeem them, especially one that requires sinking more points into them. This would include theoretically giving them every single maneuver in the game as a green move.

The reasoning is fairly simple: they have the same stat line cost efficiency as the better turreted ships. Given the choice between getting a superior dial or a turret for the same price, the turret is always going to win out.

What are your thoughts on a free BTL like title for the Defender? Would the extra attack make up for the over costing of the Defender and the additional cost of the cannon?

Depends on the cannon, but with an Ion Cannon that would bring its jousting value up from about 23 points to somewhere in the ballpark of 30 points. For having the Ion effect and the white K-turn it might actually be slightly too good. Vessery getting a target lock on both attacks, especially with a Heavy Laser Cannon, would just be stupid good.

With all the talk of Ion Cannon, what if when you fired/hit you gave 2 ion tokens instead of 1? It then brings the Defender into a role of being able to herd the big ships, while having a somewhat decent statline to let it do that kind of work? Doesn't affect small ships any differently, as they would clear both ion tokens in their next activation phase.

Basically give the Defender Ion Pulse missiles in some way shape or form? I would think you have to pay for the ion cannon upgrade in order to make this work, and only work on a secondary weapon shot too, cause linking 2 ion tokens with primary weapon sounds brutal.

Okay, stealing from everyone else I think I've got it.

Ionized primary weapon. "When a Defenders primary weapon deals damage assign one ion token for each point of damage dealt"

Any damage ionizes small ships and two or more damage ionizes large ships. You could even make it one token for each hit and two tokens for a crit.

Now that's much better.

I feel like that might be a bit too much. I think one token off primary attacks with a very minimal cost should be good. Then you're not dealing with silly things like four ion tokens at range one.

(Would be excessive and unnecessary)