Ok,

This has probably been done 100 times, by 100 different people...

But has anyone created a good adaptation for space marines? Rules for their 'genetic milkshake' and their gear?
I mean good as in down to earth, with common sense and not trying to make the ultra-cool-and-invincible-style-over-substance-awesomesauce-Space-Marines.

I'm aware that most fans of the Space Marines are just the "THEYARESOCOOL" guys, but i'm pretty sure someone with common sense might have made a decent adaptation. Can someone point me to it?

Basically, I add +10 wounds, 10 in physical stats, -10 to interaction outside of the Adeptus Astartes and give them the Power Armour (12 AP). More than that, it's up to one and all to add whatever talents and traits the individual characters have.

But that's what -I- do.

In the book Purge the Unclean, p86, they have a Space Marine Brother-Sergeant named Agamorr. So, you don't need to guess.

But, to give you an idea, add 10 to S, T and Ag, like was suggested. They would also get Unnatural Strength (x2) and Unnatural Toughness (x2).

You'd probably want to give them Basic Weapon Training (Bolt).

Astartes Power Armor is: Head 10, Arms 11, Body 12, Legs 11. It also provides + 20 Strength.

Bolter weapons would be 2d10 X, with Pen 5.

Hope that helps.

Why I did not suggest him is because he's a Brother-Sergeant. He's better, faster and smarter than the others. According to the Lore I've read, recently, Space Marines aren't that super-awesome at first. That grows on you. The power-armor is also very individual. I was going for a more casual, "OHSHITNEEDTOSTATTHISGUYOUTNOW"-kind of thing. Though, yes - it is a good guide to how they can be.

BTW they have the fearless talent. They wouldn't be space marines if they fainted in every combat with xenos and demons and wet their pants on a general basis.

Other talents that are combat oriented and not necessary would of course be based on experience, but they are elite soldiers and should be represented as such.

How's this:

Astartes Battle Brother

WS: 45 BS: 45 S: 40 (8) T: 40 (8) Ag: 35 Int: 30 Per: 35 WP: 40 Fel: 25

Skills: Awareness (Per), Ciphers (Chapter) (Int), Climb (S), Common Lore (War) (Int), Concealment (Ag), Demolition (Int), Drive (Ground Vehicle, Hover Vehicle) (Ag), Navigation (Surface) (Int), Silent Move (Ag), Survival (Int)

Talents: Basic Weapon Training (Bolt, Flame), Bulging Biceps, Chem Geld, Combat Master, Die Hard, Fearless, Hardy, Iron Jaw, Jaded, Light Sleeper, Melee Weapon Training (Primitive, Chain), Pistol Training (Bolt)

Traits: Dark Sight, Hulkling, Sturdy, Unnatural Strength (x2), Unnatural Toughness (x2)

Gear: Bolter, Bolt Pistol, Mono-Edged Combat Knife, Frag Grenades (x4), Krak Grenades (x4), Power Armor

Not too bad, I don't whats the point with Jaded when you have Fearless, doesen't fearless basically make you immune to insanity points in the first place? Except maybe from corruption(malignacies.

Also, I thought the chainswords were standard issue for Astartes. Why waste all that supernatural strength?

And a few clarifications. Maybe a astartes knowledge skill to complement the knowledge war. And a specification that he has astartes power armor and not the normal variety.

Friend of the Dork said:

No, just assault marines.

No, Jaded fits a 'simple' Battle-Brother better than fearless. Even according to fluff they are not immun to fear, although hard to scare.

Therefore Jaded represents that bloodshed and other things of war do not scare them, but the reality-bending presence of a daemon can still make 'em run for cover.

The 2nd ED had a special SM rule for Fear. First failed test pinned them, they were not allowed to move closer, a second then would send them running.

Hmm ... give them that as a Special Rule: Hard Morale. works like described above.

LuciusT said:

Sneaky is a dirty word to most SM. I would replace Concealment and Silent Move with knowledge skills for Tactica Imperialis and the language War cant.

And as was mentioned asterisks need to be places by Gear: Bolter*, Bolt Pistol*, and Power Armor* to note them as Astartes grade.

ItsUncertainWho said:

You forget, every Battle Brother starts out as a 10th company Scout.

Oh... I found an awesome(and incredibly complete) on-line guide to SMs.
Here: www.darkreign40k.com/downloads/career-paths/tyranus-conclave-adeptus-astartes/details-2.html

It is pretty kickass.

Though I still don't know the Unnatural S and Unnatural T talents. Would someone care to indulge me?
(I don't own the book yet, since Amazon takes 2 months to deliver in Brazil.)

Cheers mates!

It doubles/triples/... the the Attributes Bonus. Just multiply the Bonus with the mentioned multiplier. Unnatural Strengh (x2) means SBx2 ... you get the idea.

In my opinion it screws too much with the mechanics, but thats my opinion.

Unnatural Strength and Unnatural Toughness makes sense for a Space Marine. Yes, they were once human, but by the time they get to go out in the field in their scout armor, they have enough implants and psychic conditioning to be superhuman, or more specifically even beyond human. That's the fluff.

Power Armor also adds to the Strength of who ever is wearing it, so Astartes Power Armor giving a +20 to Strength is appropriate.

If you are a Space Marine with power armor, they will definetly be trained in Basic Weapon Training (Bolt). If you include the Scout training, they would also probably have Basic Weapon Training (SP) to cover Shotguns and Sniper rifles.

Actually, looking at LuciusT's post, I think he pretty much covers all the Talents and Skills that make sense.

And Agamorr is the only official look at a Space Marine that we have. The big difference between a Marine and a Brother-Sergeant will be the amount of Skills and Talents that he has, and Agamorr had boat loads of both. I see the stats making sense for being a Space Marine, and his Skills and Talents showing what he has earned in his long storied career.

LuciusT

Yeah, they start out as scouts but personally I see SM Scouts as more of a light infantry skirmish line more than a recon unit. I can see Concealment and Silent Move as Basic skills but not full trained ones. A good camo cloak will go a long way in concealing someone at adistance.

I disagree to ItsUncertainWho's post.

Marines are no longer operating in large masses (no matter what the first DoW showed or happens on the TT) but are forced to operate with high precision in small numbers. Ever since the reorganisation from Legions into Chapters they simply do not have that manpower any more. It makes perfect sense to me that they use the Scout Legion for ... well, scouting and other such tactics. They will hardly forget those skills since they need them time and time again, when they have to deal with enemies in larger numbers.

A power armour seems mighty to us when a single warrior is standing in front of us, but in the warzones (where they operate) a bunch of guys in those is an easy to big target for aircrafts, tanks, and other forms of heavy weapons. And against those ... i do dare to say the armour is not good enough. Unbreakable for most infantry weapon, but not for the really big guns.

Therefore i (still my opinion) believe they can sneak rather well. Hard to do when your that big and in a metal suit, but it still can be done (i have seen guys sneek around in a full medieval plate armour, those knew how to move in it).

During one the last career levels the Adept can buy Unnatural Intelligence (x2), the only Space Marine we have is a 10 year+ veteran Sgt Brother of the Death Watch, I really don't think they get much better than him.
His armour, from the description, doesn't seem to be "normal" Astartes power armour.

Conclusion:
The space marine presented is a top of the line, far better than average space marine.
Would a normal space marine have both unnatural stats, probably not.

And with Rogue Trader Characters starting out with 25+2d10 stats I would guess the marines in Death Watch start out with 30+2d10 and have the oppurtunity to buy the Unnatural traits way later in the game, making them truly insane....as they should be.

My guess would be that an average marine would have most stats in the 50-ties and the Fearless Talent, that is if they don't have custom made Fear and Terror rules.

As regards to the armour - I believe that the writer, T.S. Luikhart said that the armour was meant to be Artificer armour rather than the bulk standard power armour.

So you might want to knock a point or two off for Standard armour.

DW

Combat Squad Marine

WS: 40 BS: 40 STR: 40 (60) TOU: 40 (60) AGI: 33 INT: 33 PER: 33 WIL: 40 FEL: 33

Wounds: 20

Skills-
Dodge (Ag) Awareness (Per) Low Gothic (Int) Literacy (Int) Survival (Int) Climbing (Str) Navigation: Ground (Int) Tech Use (Int) Swimming (Str)Secret Tongue- Marine Chpt (Int) Common Lore: War Common Lore: Marine Chpt (Int) Tracking (Int) Concealment (Agi) Move Silently (Agi)

Talents-
Basic Weapon: Bolt Gun, Basic weapon: Melee Primitive, Basic Weapon: Solid Projectile, Exotic Weapon: Needle rifle, Basic Weapon: Bolt Pistol Heavy weapon: Launcher -or- Basic Weapon: Flamer -or- Melta Gun, Jaded: Immune normal horrors, True Grit: Reduce Critical Damage taken, Unshakable Faith: Re-roll failed fear tests, Iron Jaw: Re-roll TOU test to overcome Stun, Insanely Faithful: Re-roll Shock tests, Crack Shot: +2 Critical Damage with Ranged weapon, Crushing Blow: +2 Melee Damage, Mighty Shot: +2 Ranged Damage

Implants-
Secondary Heart: +20 Tests vs Stun
Ossmodula: +20 Toughness, Size increase +1 step Hulking (Factored into stats)
Biscopea: +20 Strength (Factored into stats)
Haemastamen: Efficient Blood, monitors other implants
Larraman Organ: Immune to effects of Bleeding from critical wounds
Catalepsean Node: Light Sleeper Talent- always counts as awake
Preomnor: +40 Survival and Injested Poisoning tests
Omophagea: Survival test at +0, each +10 over answers 1 genetic memory question about what/who is eaten
Multi-Lung: +40 vs Inhaled Poison/low oxygen tests
Occulobe: Dark Sight vision trait
Lymans Ear: +30 tests to avoid disorientation and dizziness
Sus-An Membrane: Marine can enter suspended animation, halts bleeding, effects of wounds and toxins
Melanchrome: +20 tests vs Radiation damage
Oolitic Kidney: +40 vs Injected poison tests- triggers suspended animation to survive on failure of test
Neuroglottis: +20 tracking by scent, automatically detects toxins on taste or smell
Mucranoid: Skin secretion- +30 Survival tests in extreme temperatures up to +/-50 degrees Celsius
Betchers Gland: Acid Saliva- does 1D10+3 on contact, 5m range, refills every 5minutes
Progenoids: Carries Gene-seed of the marine, matures after 5 (neck) and 10 (chest) years
Black Carapace: Required for the operation of Space Marine power armour

Standard Combat Squad Equipment-
Marine Pattern Power Armour: 10pts all locations, 240hr power supply, re-breather, sealed, encrypted comlink, +20 Str
Marine Pattern Bolt Gun: Range: 100m Damage: 2D10X Pen: 5 ROF: 1/3/- Magazine: 30 (Tearing, Reliable)
Best Quality Melee Weapon: Knife, Sword or Axe (+10 Hit +1 Damage, Mono-Edge)
Gear- 10days rations and water, 10 x Magazines for Bolt Gun, 6 x Frag Grenades, Med Kit

Could use a bit of refinement on the implants, but aside from that he's what I envision a SM to be if you took just your basic combat squad table top marine into a Dark Heresy game. Very tough, keeps on going where humans would fail simply from environmental effects and wounds, but he's not un-killable or unshakable... but much better than most!

He's done his time as a scout, all implants functioning and considered a part of the chapter, for other chapters some of the implants might be missing, might have a different set of background-y type skills and specialist gear endemic to the chapter. Aside from that, he'd kick a bit of arse.

Where they really hold together in combat is with an NCO or officer to use some of the more advanced leadership skills to stop them from being pinned or retreating too far, plus they come in numbers, they aren't dawdling along as some 'random monster encounter' .

As far as gear goes, its an example of something like mobile deployment package, for assault, ditch the supplies, more ammo and nades, give one of them a more exotic weapon like a launcher, flamer or melta gun and the ammo for that.

What about Nerves of Steel ? (reroll failed tests to resist or overcome pinning)

ItsUncertainWho said:

Scouts are used for infiltration, assassination, sabotage etc. They would definately have Concealment and Silent Move as trained skills, therefore all Marines would also. They just suffer penalties 'cause they usually run around in Power Armour.

They way we do is SM start with 30+2d10 stats and for weapons we use the Universal type introduced in RT. If a RTs can have Universal Weapon profeciencies SM surelly MUST have. Also RT starts with 25+2d10 stats so 30 makes only sense (if not even higher).

A 10+ year veteran sergeant is easily upstaged by a number of other ranks of space marine (terminators, captains, chaplains, librarians, techmarines, etc), so BS Ag would actually BE a good starting point to look at things. If Space Marines have/get a career path like others, vet sergeant would be just before the split in the path (after scout, battle brother, and sergeant). Folks have it pretty much down pat at either adding 10 to physical stats or even simply making it starting 30+2d10. The higher rank you get, the more likely you're getting more talents/skills and a scattering of stat increases, so BS Ag will have more. There are a number of anti-fear/pinning talents out there, you probably want to give them 2 of them to start (jaded/nerves of steel most likely). Most of the extra organs for an SM can be attributed to their higher stats/unnatural toughness/unnatural strength, the exception being spitting acid. To mimik the others, I recommend Hardy, Die Hard, and True Grit.

The way our current SM campeign here is running, the marine has full access to a single career path of his choice (whichever best suits his role, the librarian uses the imperial pysker, the chaplain uses cleric, etc). They are the elite of Imperium and alot of their skills will be Chapter dependant (space wolves and dark angels sneak, Imperial Fists and Ultramarines do not, White scars learn how to ride/drive, Salamanders how to craft, etc etc).

The only problem I have with the Brother Sergeant is his armor, at 10/11/12 and at toughness bonus of 8, it's hard to hurt them with most of the current weapons that aren't wielded by another space marine. You may find that having a standard battle brother's power armor being 9 or 10 flat would be easier and more balanced and saying that the BS is wearing artificer armor.

As a new player to Dark Heresy, but a longtime 40k tabletop gamer, I've found DarthBane and Richard Little's Adeptus Astartes fan sourcebook more than adequate for creating interesting and realistic Space Marines for Dark Heresy.

It's simply one of the most comprehensive and well-put together fan-books of any RPG I've read, and I've been through a few systems. (D&D, WEG Star Trek, Alternity, Decipher's Star Trek, etc.)

Not only do they provide some pretty solid game mechanics, they even have sections explaining why they took the paths they did in creation; accountability and rationalization provide players with breathing room to adapt, modify, or even re-write entire sections of their rules.

And that's enough of my waxing poetic on that. Check it out though.

As an aside, you've just read my first post on the forums! As mentioned, new Dark Heresy gamer, loving the system and the setting. Hope to see you all in the forums!