I think the main prob with ordnance is that you want to use it with low cost ships, because ordnance is expensive and you don't want to make your high-cost ships even a more juicy target - apart from that the high cost ships usually don't need extra ordnance to do their job.

BUT the low cost and thus low PS ships fail getting a lock on higher PS ships, which is required to fire the stuff.

Extra munitions is a very good start to give the ship an extra shot of whatever ordnance equipped for only 2 points. Now it has to made sure that the bombers actually has the chance to fire them - regardless of the chances to hit. So I don't want to overpower ordnance now or the bombers carring ordnance.

Since the affecting ships don't have access to an elite training - which would solve this problem by equipping "Deadeye", I want to present a simpe but effective quite similar idea like "Deadeye" as kind of a computer system to be equipped as a modification.

Missile Guidance System

Modification

"When you declare an attack with a [missile] or [torpedo] upgrade, you may discard a focus token to accuire a target lock on that ship."

cost: 1 Point

EDIT: 0 Points

So nothing fancy, this just should help grunts getting stuff off if they they survive until they can fire. And I don't want to make this more expensive then 1 point, because the grunts should be as cheap as possible nevertheless. Hence they still need to load Ordnance and Ammo. And yes ... you cannot use this together with Munitions Failsafe, but you still might want to have Munitions Failsafe on higher PS pilots.

What do you think? Would this be a thing?

so if i want to shoot a missile twice it now costs 3 points more?

I think the main prob with ordnance is that you want to use it with low cost ships, because ordnance is expensive and you don't want to make your high-cost ships even a more juicy target - apart from that the high cost ships usually don't need extra ordnance to do their job.

BUT the low cost and thus low PS ships fail getting a lock on higher PS ships, which is required to fire the stuff.

Extra munitions is a very good start to give the ship an extra shot of whatever ordnance equipped for only 2 points. Now it has to made sure that the bombers actually has the chance to fire them - regardless of the chances to hit. So I don't want to overpower ordnance now or the bombers carring ordnance.

Since the affecting ships don't have access to an elite training - which would solve this problem by equipping "Deadeye", I want to present a simpe but effective quite similar idea like "Deadeye" as kind of a computer system to be equipped as a modification.

Missile Guidance System

Modification

"When you declare an attack with a [missile] or [torpedo] upgrade, you may discard a focus token to accuire a target lock on that ship."

cost: 1 Point

So nothing fancy, this just should help grunts getting stuff off if they they survive until they can fire. And I don't want to make this more expensive then 1 point, because the grunts should be as cheap as possible nevertheless. Hence they still need to load Ordnance and Ammo. And yes ... you cannot use this together with Munitions Failsafe, but you still might want to have Munitions Failsafe on higher PS pilots.

What do you think? Would this be a thing?

This is basically like Deadeye for any pilot. I like it alot. Simple and Effective. Good job!

However, I would switch it to say if you target lock and fire ordnance, you gain a free focus.

Your fix helps low PS pilot, but doesn't really make Ordnance that effective, to make it more effective I would switch it. Yes this doesn't help low PS pilots, but really they are cheaper for a reason. However, it does help Ordnance.

Weapons Guidance System:

Modification: 1 Pt

When firing a secondary weapon that requires a target lock, if the ship has not focus tokens, it immediately gain a focus token which can be used in the attack.

That is how I would fix the issue.

This makes High PS bombers still valuable and makes ordnance much better

I don't think this fixes the biggest draw-back which is you either need two turns to fire, or you can't modify the dice.

Even better use both on one card

I think it sounds promising. It just means that low PS ordnance users will be steered toward Proton Torps and Concussion Missiles with inherent dice mod capabilities, which is better than nothing. Those two items would each average exactly 3 hits/crits.

Keep the text identical to Deadeye to keep it simple and avoid unintended consequences.

At the risk of some complication from being unconventional, to make this compatible with Munitions Failsafe it could instead be a Title that can be equipped to any ship with a Missile or Torpedo slot.

I don't think this fixes the biggest draw-back which is you either need two turns to fire, or you can't modify the dice.

"Improved Targeting System"

Modification: 0 pts

When you declare a Target Lock action, you may place the red target lock token on yourself. At the start of the Combat Phase, you must assign any red target lock tokens acquired this way to an enemy ship at Range 1-3. If there are no enemy ships at Range 1-3, the token is discarded.

Oh I like that improved targeting idea for helping low ps ships get locks.

For the other idea what about instead of giving a focus it said "when attacking with a missile or torpedo, you may change all <eyes> to <hits>. While this would take away from the fringe of not allowing it to be used for defense if someone else fires after you AND you also don't need it for attack, it would greatly improve the use of cluster missiles as well as anything in the future that allows multiple attacks in one round. It would also be a hedge protections from effects like Jax.

Edit: ooh or better yet what if it gave the marksmanship effect for ordinance where it makes one eye a crit then the rest hits? That would also improve all ordinance and make cluster pretty nutty. (Ok I have a thing for cluster, you caught me )

lets see what wave 8 comes up with. I think bombardier will fix weapons that require spending tokens.

lets see what wave 8 comes up with. I think bombardier will fix weapons that require spending tokens.

There is a clear scan of Bombardier. All it does is let you drop bombs using a 2 Straight Template.

Where is this clear scan of Bombardier?

Rather than trying fundamentally alter the ordnance firing mechanic just make the ordnance cheaper or more effective.

I think the main prob with ordnance is that you want to use it with low cost ships, because ordnance is expensive and you don't want to make your high-cost ships even a more juicy target - apart from that the high cost ships usually don't need extra ordnance to do their job.

BUT the low cost and thus low PS ships fail getting a lock on higher PS ships, which is required to fire the stuff.

Extra munitions is a very good start to give the ship an extra shot of whatever ordnance equipped for only 2 points. Now it has to made sure that the bombers actually has the chance to fire them - regardless of the chances to hit. So I don't want to overpower ordnance now or the bombers carring ordnance.

Since the affecting ships don't have access to an elite training - which would solve this problem by equipping "Deadeye", I want to present a simpe but effective quite similar idea like "Deadeye" as kind of a computer system to be equipped as a modification.

Missile Guidance System

Modification

"When you declare an attack with a [missile] or [torpedo] upgrade, you may discard a focus token to accuire a target lock on that ship."

cost: 1 Point

So nothing fancy, this just should help grunts getting stuff off if they they survive until they can fire. And I don't want to make this more expensive then 1 point, because the grunts should be as cheap as possible nevertheless. Hence they still need to load Ordnance and Ammo. And yes ... you cannot use this together with Munitions Failsafe, but you still might want to have Munitions Failsafe on higher PS pilots.

What do you think? Would this be a thing?

Or you could have it read: "you may treat all secondary weapons with the "Attack target lock" header as "Attack focus".

so if i want to shoot a missile twice it now costs 3 points more?

"So if I want to shoot a missile twice it now costs 0-2 points less?"

Thought I'd fix that for you.

lets see what wave 8 comes up with. I think bombardier will fix weapons that require spending tokens.

There is a clear scan of Bombardier. All it does is let you drop bombs using a 2 Straight Template.

That Sounds like it could be useful if you could manage to pair it with "Genius" on a ship in the future. I already Use "Genius" on my Scum Y-wings to drop a bomb after a 4 K-turn to slingshot bombs at people. Being able to increase the range on that would be really fun. Dropping a bomb about the equivalent of 7 1 straight maneuvers ahead of my position would certainly help me get off some unexpected bombs. Maybe it will be doable when the Scum equivalent to the K-wing and Tie Punisher come out.

With all due respect for every one here.

What the game DOESN’T need are more cards costing more points, which just clutter up the game.

FFG should just admit that the ordinance rules are faulty, and just suck-it-up and correct the problem!

Target Locks should not take an action, and should be automatic at the beginning of the combat phase. (I find it interesting that the Fighter Aircraft of today have better targeting computers than Star Wars. They can lock on what about 50 miles out! How many boards is that?) And yes, every fighter craft in the game should be equip with a targeting computer, ah Daa!

2nd point) One shot ordinance should be no more than 2 points for 4 attack dice with one special trait. A special trait would be, (You may change 1 of your (focus) results to a (Crit) result). Add one point if the is more than four attack dice or an a splash weapon, Minus one point if it does less than 4 attack dice.

Those vessels classified as a “Bomber" such as a Tie Bomber or the Y-Wing pay half price for their weapons, rounded up.

See how simple that is FFG. Just saying!

The thing is I bet the ship a are much harder to lock on That's why it takes an action. Plus with auto target locks unless the change them to state on for ordnance. The will be use to reroll on and never to fire ordnance

What the game DOESN’T need are more cards costing more points, which just clutter up the game.

0 points? -1 points?

-4 points if you start the game with a random critical damage?

You can barter with me. I'm not FFG.

Oh I like that improved targeting idea for helping low ps ships get locks.

For the other idea what about instead of giving a focus it said "when attacking with a missile or torpedo, you may change all <eyes> to <hits>. While this would take away from the fringe of not allowing it to be used for defense if someone else fires after you AND you also don't need it for attack, it would greatly improve the use of cluster missiles as well as anything in the future that allows multiple attacks in one round. It would also be a hedge protections from effects like Jax.

Edit: ooh or better yet what if it gave the marksmanship effect for ordinance where it makes one eye a crit then the rest hits? That would also improve all ordinance and make cluster pretty nutty. (Ok I have a thing for cluster, you caught me )

A marksmanship effect could be neat if there was an upgrade, this change could be implimented by errata instead of needing a card. Simply state in a section about ordinance.

When you declare an attack with a [missile] or [Torpedo], you may change all your [eyes] to [hits].

Easy. This would not devalue any ordinance speciaL ability. For example, proton torpedo would just have marksmanship. Proton rockets could save the focus required (but not spent) for defense. Ion pulse and homing missiles get to use TL in addition to focus effect.

This does not fix low PS issue but that is where a weapon guidance computer similar to Sparklelord's suggestion comes in.

How about a 1 point modification that gives you red-line? (But it only works on torps and missiles)

That would be nice

How about changing the Target lock action like they did with the Cloak action. Make it so that now when you take a TL it can be against anything on the table(yes it kills ST-321 but it's just 1 card), then make TLallow you to reroll 1 dice when shooting whether you spend the TL to shoot a missile/torp or not, then you would see ppl using TL for what it is intended for and it would still be useful for primaries but not as much which is how it should be.

lets see what wave 8 comes up with. I think bombardier will fix weapons that require spending tokens.

There is a clear scan of Bombardier. All it does is let you drop bombs using a 2 Straight Template.

That Sounds like it could be useful if you could manage to pair it with "Genius" on a ship in the future. I already Use "Genius" on my Scum Y-wings to drop a bomb after a 4 K-turn to slingshot bombs at people. Being able to increase the range on that would be really fun. Dropping a bomb about the equivalent of 7 1 straight maneuvers ahead of my position would certainly help me get off some unexpected bombs. Maybe it will be doable when the Scum equivalent to the K-wing and Tie Punisher come out.

It is unlikely we will see a crew slot and (salvaged) astromech slot on a bomb capable ship.

Two of the many problems with munitions are not enough damage over the primary, especially compared to cannon/turret secondaries, and they have to be used in place of the primary weapon that turn. So...

Heavy Warheads

Modification:

When attacking with a Torpedo or Missile secondary weapon, roll 2 additional attack dice. (All ranged munitions become 5-7 dice attacks with effects for 3-6pts each. Couple with the upcoming wave 7 extra munitions upgrade for some extra fun.)

Cost 1pt

This fixes Munitions Failsafe as much as it fixes munitions. Munitions Failsafe takes at least 4 game rounds to be worth the point and then you are still pretty happy if you only knock a shield off when you hit. 2 extra dice mitigates the lack of modifiers for most munitions just through sheer numbers and if you can sneak a focus in there somehow, or get a lucky roll, this becomes an extremely potent alpha strike.

Advanced Tactical Training

Elite Pilot Talent:

Action: You may perform a torpedo or missile secondary weapon attack. Then receive 1 stress token.

Cost 1pt (or maybe 3pts with no stress)

Firing a Torp or Missile during the activation phase? In the words of Vader, "I have you now!" Sooo many possibilities.

Still takes a couple rounds for a low PS pilot to set up a shot on his own, but with some support ships in the squad passing actions or tokens these might make it worth the risk more often. A low to mid PS ship with an EPT slot can now plan its dial knowing exactly where the target will be and get the shot off before Fel or Han even move. Fire a flechette at a higher PS enemy, stress him, then he reveals a red - guess you get to pick his maneuver for him, oops he turned off the board. Imagine an FCS Corran at range 1 - use an action to fire a 7dice adv torp and then double-tap with 8 more dice. A couple lucky rolls with a few crits and he drops Han or Chiraneau (or half a swarm) in one round by himself.

Some 100pt Lists with ordnance and support to dish out locks to them:

2X Scimitar with Extra Munitions, Cluster, Flechette, Heavy Warheads (50pts)

Colonel Jendon with ST-321, Weapons engineer (32)

Black Squadron with Draw their fire, hull upgrade (18)

or

Airen Cracken with Cluster Missiles, Heavy Warheads (24)

Dutch with R2-D6, Extra Munitions, Proton Torps, Heavy Warheads, Advanced Tactical Training (30)

2X Gold with Extra Munitions, Proton Torps, Heavy Warheads (46) *or strip down Cracken for some protons on the Y's but its 5dice and a stress vs 6 dice so not much difference for the points.

I have a feeling that FFG would probably want to charge 2-4 points for upgrades like these and/or throw stress at you or say you can't attack the next round or something, but I would love to see these released with an 'X and Y' or 'X and E' Rebel Aces 2 pack that also has several munitions astromechs. The game is called X-Wing and it would be nice to see an X-Wing on the table at a top 4 once in a while.

How about a 1 point modification that gives you red-line? (But it only works on torps and missiles)

That would be nice

I bet Redline's ability is more then just 1 point.

But, what about a modification that gives you a focus token when you fire a torp or a missile?

The fix for bombers is extra munitions.. you want low pilot skill so you can move and drop your prox mine right on that high PS pilot... best part is with TIE Bombers you will soon be able to carry 2.. or 2 of anything you bought, for real cheap..

Scimitar with

Proton Rockets

Proton torps

Proximity mine

Extra munitions

You just got 10 points of ordnance for 2 points.. yes that's a 28 point scimitar, but I'm just using that as an example..

That's the fix... if you aren't happy with it.. dont play bombers.. I use them all the time..