So the game I was playing was for a league. We didn't have any of the tournament rules integrated into the scoring for the league which is why it worked for me, it's a lost or win scenario. BUT I will say that the tournament rules will more than likely be worked into the rules for the next one.

Just because you can do something but not like it doesnt mean its broken. For certain ojbectives stalling could work. But not others.

The important thing is forcing your opponent to react to you. You did good. But the other didnt do anything to make you react, thats a flaw in g

His stratagey.

So, both players could just sit staring at each other? The first one to flinch loses! That's a great game, lots of replayability there.

The alternative is sitting staring at each other, especially with an assault objective which requires interaction to gain points. What if both players just speed 0 at their starts in a game of chicken? That's not quite how the game is supposed to be played. The point isn't really about strategy, and yes, the rebel player could have avoided him for the 6 rounds of the game for an ultimate draw. Why isn't the onus on the OP/imperial player in this case to actually engage intelligently?

The greater point is that speed 0, repeatedly, harms the game. What really stops players from doing this from the start even with 3-400pts? Scenario choice only? Armada isn't a naturally aggressive game, like X-Wing, to root out this type of behavior (eg: Fortressing in X-Wing), so from what I have seen - something needs to be done artificially, else the game will die due to some adherence to 'Speed 0 wins!'

Why doesn't the rebel player just pull the same trick and drop to speed 0 at long range? Then it's 8 red dice vs. 3....and with engineering commands the rebels ought to stay alive long enough to put a hurt on the VSD.

It's not an issue of "speed 0"wins. It's that the Imp player got to use his objective which goes counter to the Rebel gameplan with its current fleet selection. If they had been playin a typical Rebel objective, then the Imp would've had to move out otherwise the Rebel player would just rack up objective points.

Because at 300 or 400 points if you are going to give your opponent complete latitude to approach one of your ships with thier whole Fleet they are going to demolish you piece by piece.

I think you should take a deep breath and revisit this after you have played a bunch. For myself, I am about 30 games in. I have indeed seen speed zero happen, but its application is extremely limited. *theoretically* a player could sit on the back edge, but it really does not play out that way. The lack of defense tokens is huge, and the map is not.

One thing I have found by playing a lot that I would not have guessed at first, is that 6 turns turns out to be plenty of time. I was concerned, before I saw it, that someone could turtle in a corner and I would not have time to get to him and kill enough to stay on a path to winning. But even in my slow VSDs, turns 4-6 are plenty - and plenty either way, reb or imp. Contrary to a lot of stuff I am reading on this forum, you can kill a VSD 2-3 turns. And a reb can easily get to firing range (which is long range, btw, you guys really do need to stop closing to close range with us...lol) in one turn.

Its not a thing, really, not once you start playing.

Actually I don't even understand how this was an issue in the game described by the OP.

It would take maximum of 3 rounds to have all 3 Rebel ships at long range, forcing it to up it's speed. Even with the added Objective dice the VSD isn't going to do real damage to any Rebel ship at long range. From there it's stuck moving up into medium range of all 3 Rebel Ships.

With the Openning Salvo dice and Concentrate Fire that VSD is staring down 18 dice that round.

If your initial roll contains an Accuracy then you stick to adding the higher damage dice, if not you roll more Blue. 4+ damage with an Accuracy result to lock the Brace is to be expected. By the third shot you'll be rolling on a VSD that has no shields left on it's front or sides, and may have already taken damage. Between that and the damage you can inflict by ramming it, the VSD might not even survive the first round of combat.

Am I missing something? The Imperial player had initiative and sat in his deployment zone and let the Rebels come to him? Sounds like the Rebels played it completely wrong. They were second player and should have just sat there waiting for you. You burn 3 turns sitting there and then move out, Rebels run away, you lose because nothing was killed and Second player wins in the tie game. Had you been second player, maybe there would be more to this but as is, the Rebel player just played wrong.

Actually I don't even understand how this was an issue in the game described by the OP.

It would take maximum of 3 rounds to have all 3 Rebel ships at long range, forcing it to up it's speed. Even with the added Objective dice the VSD isn't going to do real damage to any Rebel ship at long range. From there it's stuck moving up into medium range of all 3 Rebel Ships.

With the Openning Salvo dice and Concentrate Fire that VSD is staring down 18 dice that round.

If your initial roll contains an Accuracy then you stick to adding the higher damage dice, if not you roll more Blue. 4+ damage with an Accuracy result to lock the Brace is to be expected. By the third shot you'll be rolling on a VSD that has no shields left on it's front or sides, and may have already taken damage. Between that and the damage you can inflict by ramming it, the VSD might not even survive the first round of combat.

We only got into long range by turn 5, turn 6 he shot with one Neb B, I spent two shields to get 2 blues from the front arc plus a Concentrate fire token. rolled three accuracy and 6 hits on a side arc of his Neb. Dead ship. Tantive had no shot.

Am I missing something? The Imperial player had initiative and sat in his deployment zone and let the Rebels come to him? Sounds like the Rebels played it completely wrong. They were second player and should have just sat there waiting for you. You burn 3 turns sitting there and then move out, Rebels run away, you lose because nothing was killed and Second player wins in the tie game. Had you been second player, maybe there would be more to this but as is, the Rebel player just played wrong.

Imps were second player

The 0-speed Imperial tactic is viable at higher point levels and, while it is a legit and sensible tactic, it does give that dirty WAAC feel.

We played a 400 point game last night one Vic 1 and two Vic 2's plus figthers (6) vs. two Neb's (one escort, one support) and three Corvettes plus fighters (7). Rebs had initiative and Objective was Minefield.

End result was after 6 turns was both Neb B's lost, one Vic 2 lost (not the sitter) and an Imperial win.

Only one Vic 2 sat in the deploy zone but was a road block for flankers and since the Rebs had to bring the fight to the Imps it created a crossfire zone between the other two Vics for any ships that thought about going through the middle.

Bottom line it was a legit and sensible tactic but dull and boring to play against as we had to flank wide to avoid minefield and crossfire trap. It meant we really did not get to serious fighting until turn 5. I think aside from fighter engagement the first cap ship fire didn't happen until turn 4.

Am I missing something? The Imperial player had initiative and sat in his deployment zone and let the Rebels come to him? Sounds like the Rebels played it completely wrong. They were second player and should have just sat there waiting for you. You burn 3 turns sitting there and then move out, Rebels run away, you lose because nothing was killed and Second player wins in the tie game. Had you been second player, maybe there would be more to this but as is, the Rebel player just played wrong.

This works until you are in a tournament where you can't just get a draw. You have to actually have significant points differences for there to be a real benefit from a "win"

It's not an issue of "speed 0"wins. It's that the Imp player got to use his objective which goes counter to the Rebel gameplan with its current fleet selection. If they had been playin a typical Rebel objective, then the Imp would've had to move out otherwise the Rebel player would just rack up objective points.

Now ask yourself who is being the boring player, the Rebel player who refuses to fall for the Trap or the Imperial player who is sitting back saying "come to me so I have an advantage."?

Understand?

Removed.

Actually I don't even understand how this was an issue in the game described by the OP.

It would take maximum of 3 rounds to have all 3 Rebel ships at long range, forcing it to up it's speed. Even with the added Objective dice the VSD isn't going to do real damage to any Rebel ship at long range. From there it's stuck moving up into medium range of all 3 Rebel Ships.

With the Openning Salvo dice and Concentrate Fire that VSD is staring down 18 dice that round.

If your initial roll contains an Accuracy then you stick to adding the higher damage dice, if not you roll more Blue. 4+ damage with an Accuracy result to lock the Brace is to be expected. By the third shot you'll be rolling on a VSD that has no shields left on it's front or sides, and may have already taken damage. Between that and the damage you can inflict by ramming it, the VSD might not even survive the first round of combat.

We only got into long range by turn 5, turn 6 he shot with one Neb B, I spent two shields to get 2 blues from the front arc plus a Concentrate fire token. rolled three accuracy and 6 hits on a side arc of his Neb. Dead ship. Tantive had no shot.

The board just isn't that big, and yet with you sitting still he choose to approach you with his ships seperated, and took 5 rounds to do so.

That is just wantonly ineffective play from the Rebel Player.

3 Rebel Ships with the Openning Salvo objective can easily destroy a VSD just going straight at it. They mass enough dice that with the additions they will take 2 rounds, if that, of combined fire to being down the VSD. The VSD by sitting still allows the Rebel player to dictate ever part of the initial approach.

Ships must be placed within their player’s deployment zones. When a player places a ship, he must set its speed dial to a speed available on its speed chart.

0 isn't on any ships speed chart.

Good catch mang! It won't appease the masses but I like the research done.

The 0-speed Imperial tactic is viable at higher point levels and, while it is a legit and sensible tactic, it does give that dirty WAAC feel.

We played a 400 point game last night one Vic 1 and two Vic 2's plus figthers (6) vs. two Neb's (one escort, one support) and three Corvettes plus fighters (7). Rebs had initiative and Objective was Minefield.

End result was after 6 turns was both Neb B's lost, one Vic 2 lost (not the sitter) and an Imperial win.

Only one Vic 2 sat in the deploy zone but was a road block for flankers and since the Rebs had to bring the fight to the Imps it created a crossfire zone between the other two Vics for any ships that thought about going through the middle.

Bottom line it was a legit and sensible tactic but dull and boring to play against as we had to flank wide to avoid minefield and crossfire trap. It meant we really did not get to serious fighting until turn 5. I think aside from fighter engagement the first cap ship fire didn't happen until turn 4.

Why is what you just described am issue? He had one ship sitting parked, not his whole list. How, even if effective do you view that as problematic?

More over with 5 Rebel ships and actual Fighter superiority why would you at all be worried that your opponent was willingly leaving a third of his list out of the fight.

It's not an issue of "speed 0"wins. It's that the Imp player got to use his objective which goes counter to the Rebel gameplan with its current fleet selection. If they had been playin a typical Rebel objective, then the Imp would've had to move out otherwise the Rebel player would just rack up objective points.

Yes but let me explain it in terms no one will miss. An Imperial Player sitting in his deployment zone at speed 0 is setting up a Trap, no if and or buts, it's a Trap. What should a Rebel player do if he sees a Trap, do not fall for it. Avoid it at all cost.

Now ask yourself who is being the boring player, the Rebel player who refuses to fall for the Trap or the Imperial player who is sitting back saying "come to me so I have an advantage."?

Understand?

It's a trap all right, but it's really for themselves. With the current set of ships, Imperials are already at a disadvantage when it comes to maneuverability and numbers. It's natural to assume that the VSD can 'turtle' in the deployment zone, and thus protect its vulnerable aft from attack. This, however, is an illusion. With their speed and maneuverability, the current Rebel ships can easily put themselves in a position where they can concentrate fire on one of the VSD's target zones, with little fire in return.

If the Imperial sends the TIEs forward to at least get some points with Swarm, the Rebels can concentrate their forces safely out of range of the VSD's guns. Sure, Howlrunner will eat up some firepower, but the heavier X-Wing attacks, combined with sandblasting attacks from the Rebel ships will make short work of the TIEs. The VSD really needs to work together with the TIEs, and that means maneuvering and movement.

Actually I don't even understand how this was an issue in the game described by the OP.

It would take maximum of 3 rounds to have all 3 Rebel ships at long range, forcing it to up it's speed. Even with the added Objective dice the VSD isn't going to do real damage to any Rebel ship at long range. From there it's stuck moving up into medium range of all 3 Rebel Ships.

With the Openning Salvo dice and Concentrate Fire that VSD is staring down 18 dice that round.

If your initial roll contains an Accuracy then you stick to adding the higher damage dice, if not you roll more Blue. 4+ damage with an Accuracy result to lock the Brace is to be expected. By the third shot you'll be rolling on a VSD that has no shields left on it's front or sides, and may have already taken damage. Between that and the damage you can inflict by ramming it, the VSD might not even survive the first round of combat.

We only got into long range by turn 5, turn 6 he shot with one Neb B, I spent two shields to get 2 blues from the front arc plus a Concentrate fire token. rolled three accuracy and 6 hits on a side arc of his Neb. Dead ship. Tantive had no shot.

What was the Rebel player doing for the first 5 rounds of the game then?

The board just isn't that big, and yet with you sitting still he choose to approach you with his ships seperated, and took 5 rounds to do so.

That is just wantonly ineffective play from the Rebel Player.

3 Rebel Ships with the Openning Salvo objective can easily destroy a VSD just going straight at it. They mass enough dice that with the additions they will take 2 rounds, if that, of combined fire to being down the VSD. The VSD by sitting still allows the Rebel player to dictate ever part of the initial approach.

The point difference was 3 iirc in the game. So in a tournament it would have been a 5pt split.

The game wasn't a huge lopsided battle that I think people are envisioning with the poor strategy comments. The rebel ships were together and each fired during the last 2 turns (rd4 some hurt was put on the TIEs) The discussion should be about the reasonableness of the availability of just staying at speed zero as a tactic/'trap' - it effectively can stall the game to nothing. As the rebel player - my goal was to get a damage card on the VSD (for opening slavo pts) and take out some of the TIE fighters for the victory, without losing a ship.

I still present the situation: what if both sides just sat there at speed zero - who's setting the trap for who at that point? Who's doing the 'better strategy' (given opening slavo as a scenario)?

It's funny that so many people have suggestions for rule changes with only a month into playing the game.

C'mon people, give FFG the benefit of the doubt. They seem to know what they're doing, and you might want to doubt for a moment your own expertise in the matter.

I'll agree with a few other posters, just sit in your own deployment zone, force a draw and show your opponent what a jackass he is by playing his game. That'll end the game in 10 min and you can get onto game 2 where he won't be so gamey.

There is no draw. "If both players have the same score after six rounds, the second player wins the game." (RRG pg. 13 under Winning and Losing).

More to the point:

What objectives makes stalling at '0' a good idea?

A 'draw' occurs in a tournament if the margin of victory is 0-10 (at 180 points, it'll go up I'm sure as the points level increases). This results in 5 tournament points being awarded for each player, or a draw. Though one of the players technically 'won' the match, win/loss doesn't matter in Armada, only tournament points.

Am I missing something? The Imperial player had initiative and sat in his deployment zone and let the Rebels come to him? Sounds like the Rebels played it completely wrong. They were second player and should have just sat there waiting for you. You burn 3 turns sitting there and then move out, Rebels run away, you lose because nothing was killed and Second player wins in the tie game. Had you been second player, maybe there would be more to this but as is, the Rebel player just played wrong.

Imps were second player

So I played a game last night and I was the Imps and my opponent was the Rebels. He flew 2 Neb's and a Tantive, I flew the meta 175 Imps. I got initiative and he picked opening Salvo.

I knew he had to pretty much destroy me to win, and I just had to destroy one ship. So stayed at Speed 0 for three turns to make him have to come to me, moved the next three turns and opened up and killed the ship I needed and won.

Now despite the win, I felt dirty. It was a strategy that I saw in another game I played but I was the Rebs and we played precision Strike so I slow crawled had my X-Wing's bomb got the Objective tokens I needed turn 5 and won of VP's.

Should you be able to stay at Speed 0 for more than a turn? Or should there be some sort of extra penalty for going to Speed 0. It's a tactic, but it's a dirty one and I felt gross taking the win for it.

I have only played a handful of games but if you had initiative, how were you second player?

I though whoever had int went first and opponent picked the obj.

It's a little confusing with the terminology, but the player with the lowest fleet total has "initiative," or whomever wins a coin flip. Then the player with "initiative" can choose to either be the "first player" or the "second player." The first player always activates first, and selects one of the second players objectives to be the objective for the game.

It's funny that so many people have suggestions for rule changes with only a month into playing the game.

C'mon people, give FFG the benefit of the doubt. They seem to know what they're doing, and you might want to doubt for a moment your own expertise in the matter.

I'll agree with a few other posters, just sit in your own deployment zone, force a draw and show your opponent what a jackass he is by playing his game. That'll end the game in 10 min and you can get onto game 2 where he won't be so gamey.

There is no draw. "If both players have the same score after six rounds, the second player wins the game." (RRG pg. 13 under Winning and Losing).

More to the point:

What objectives makes stalling at '0' a good idea?

Good catch on the winner bit...but to no good end, tournament scoringwise. A win at a margin of 0-10pts difference after score resolution still means a win with only 5pts (Page 2 FFG Tournament Rules). The loser get 5pts as well.

Imperials stalling (move zero) at the beginning of the game prevents VSDs being swarmed 360 by turn 3-4. Again, once more ships are available we prob won't see this as often.

It's funny that so many people have suggestions for rule changes with only a month into playing the game.

C'mon people, give FFG the benefit of the doubt. They seem to know what they're doing, and you might want to doubt for a moment your own expertise in the matter.

I'll agree with a few other posters, just sit in your own deployment zone, force a draw and show your opponent what a jackass he is by playing his game. That'll end the game in 10 min and you can get onto game 2 where he won't be so gamey.

There is no draw. "If both players have the same score after six rounds, the second player wins the game." (RRG pg. 13 under Winning and Losing).

More to the point:

What objectives makes stalling at '0' a good idea?

Stalling is a tactic but your opponent does not need to fall for it. (Also if the Imperial gets the initiative to get his Objectives chosen then he is the First player which if the Rebel avoided his trap would the Imperial player will lose.

Problem solved, don't fly into an Imperial's Trap and he will lose the game using this Tactic.