A court case, a casino manager, numerous videos.

I've seen no link to a court case, and the only videos are of 6 siders which we've said the whole time doesn't prove a thing.

But feel free to keep trying.

http://m.reviewjournal.com/news/crime-courts/couple-accused-dice-sliding-wynn-las-vegas

Again, you guys can scoff all you want, but cheating through die rolls is very real and possible.

You can palm the dice if you are slapping them down rather than rolling them on the table.

If they don't roll or bounce then they are likely manipulating the dice.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dice_control

Here's the Wikipedia article that explains why they have the rubber pyramids on the sides of a craps table. Hint: It's because otherwise you can cheat the roll. (They even explain the mechanics behind it)

The article explains what the proponents of dice control claim allows them to control the dice.

That's like citing an article that explains what creationists claim proves God created the earth in 7 days.

Also, the article ends with this (emphasis mine):

"Experiments have been conducted on the subject of dice control, with inconclusive results."

If you read the reference, you'll find it's referring to a different technique and was only inconclusive because they used a small sample size

It makes no reference to the well known blanket roll (which would not qualify for the experiment since it is outright banned in craps. Something else you would gave known if you read the first Wikipedia article.)

The article also talks about having people distract observers while the rolls were made so that the dice could slide. Try that with d8s. Try it when your opponent is watching and paying attention.

And remember that the topic isn't about dice sliding.

This is totally real guys look I have proof...Nessy is real http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/loch-ness-monster-video-5349979. Oh but you don't believe in real life video or articles on the Internet so your wrong and I'm right. Seriously, to agree with aminar, dice manipulation is possible but the likelihood of someone being able to pull it off with multiple d8's consistently is pretty darn near non existent. Let alone someone actually taking the time to learn how to do it. Learning how to do it would take a tremendous amount of time to perfect just red dice, but wait there are green ones too which would require even more time to learn and perfect. You really believe someone will waste this much time and energy for something they get no monetary gain out of? If you do then that's fine but you can't blame most everyone else for thinking it's pretty far fetched. Why spend that time learning to cheat xwing when you could spend way less time and learn to cheat Vegas and 6 sided dice (apparently it's super easy to do) and win actual money? Doesn't really make sense. Also more on topic, am i cheating if I decide to just place my dice haphazardly in my hand and shake it only 3 times not 4 because I read on the Internet this gives you better randomization and increases your odds?

Seriously, to agree with aminar, dice manipulation is possible but the likelihood of someone being able to pull it off with multiple d8's consistently is pretty darn near non existent.

I've accepted from the start that some people claim that they can control or at least influence six-siders, although there's been no solid proof, only people who want to sell you something posting youtube videos.

Because ya know, there's no way someone would alter a youtube video when they're trying to sell something...

But, even if we were to accept such a thing could be done with 2 six-siders, that is not proof you can do the same thing with 4 eight-siders. Claiming it to be proof is the epitome of moving the goalposts. Because you're providing evidence of something completely different than what we're talking about then launching ad hominem attacks when called on it. That evidence being highly questionable in the first place.

If you really think the other guy is cheating, then quietly inform the TO and ask them to check it out. The TO will do whatever they think is appropriate.

I already addressed how Vegas mitigates cheaters: For one they require you to use their dice, they require you to throw the dice the length of the table, and they require that the dice bounce off the tables wall where they place devices specifically designed to randomize the results. And when all these measures don't work, they sue you.

It's almost as if those with a financial interest in ensuring the game maintains it's stated odds have gone out to find ways that could alter those odds.

And when did I say it was easy to do? My first post literally said the opposite, and that it would be hard to do but still, and get this since you admitted it yourself, POSSIBLE.

I already addressed how Vegas mitigates cheaters: For one they require you to use their dice, they require you to throw the dice the length of the table, and they require that the dice bounce off the tables wall where they place devices specifically designed to randomize the results. And when all these measures don't work, they sue you.

It's almost as if those with a financial interest in ensuring the game maintains it's stated odds have gone out to find ways that could alter those odds.

And when did I say it was easy to do? My first post literally said the opposite, and that it would be hard to do but still, and get this since you admitted it yourself, POSSIBLE.

So is the lottery buddy, so is the lottery.

I already addressed how Vegas mitigates cheaters: For one they require you to use their dice, they require you to throw the dice the length of the table, and they require that the dice bounce off the tables wall where they place devices specifically designed to randomize the results. And when all these measures don't work, they sue you.

It's almost as if those with a financial interest in ensuring the game maintains it's stated odds have gone out to find ways that could alter those odds.

And when did I say it was easy to do? My first post literally said the opposite, and that it would be hard to do but still, and get this since you admitted it yourself, POSSIBLE.

So is the lottery buddy, so is the lottery.

No? Well then why are you wasting everyone's time?

Ok, so I'm legitimately not trolling here so I'd like a reasonable response. My wife is going out of town for a bit so I think this experiment would be interesting to do.

1) What methods are being used to supposedly cheat?

2) How many throws does it take to be statistically valid?

3) Any other caveats I should know before wasting my time to be invalidated by trolls?

Current plan: I will run this experiment 3 times. Once with "fully shaken" dice (control), once with the cheating method (trying to succeed), and once trying to cheat blanks (trying to fail).

Ok, so I'm legitimately not trolling here so I'd like a reasonable response. My wife is going out of town for a bit so I think this experiment would be interesting to do.

1) What methods are being used to supposedly cheat?

2) How many throws does it take to be statistically valid?

3) Any other caveats I should know before wasting my time to be invalidated by trolls?

Current plan: I will run this experiment 3 times. Once with "fully shaken" dice (control), once with the cheating method (trying to succeed), and once trying to cheat blanks (trying to fail).

Precisely, i hope to get better as time goes on to show that someone can get "good" at rolling evades/hits.

I already addressed how Vegas mitigates cheaters: For one they require you to use their dice, they require you to throw the dice the length of the table, and they require that the dice bounce off the tables wall where they place devices specifically designed to randomize the results. And when all these measures don't work, they sue you.

It's almost as if those with a financial interest in ensuring the game maintains it's stated odds have gone out to find ways that could alter those odds.

And when did I say it was easy to do? My first post literally said the opposite, and that it would be hard to do but still, and get this since you admitted it yourself, POSSIBLE.

So is the lottery buddy, so is the lottery.

Is there a way of scratching off tickets that can influence printed numbers?

No? Well then why are you wasting everyone's time?

Winning the lottery is POSSIBLE....highly unlikely however.

Ok, so I'm legitimately not trolling here so I'd like a reasonable response. My wife is going out of town for a bit so I think this experiment would be interesting to do.

1) What methods are being used to supposedly cheat?

2) How many throws does it take to be statistically valid?

3) Any other caveats I should know before wasting my time to be invalidated by trolls?

Current plan: I will run this experiment 3 times. Once with "fully shaken" dice (control), once with the cheating method (trying to succeed), and once trying to cheat blanks (trying to fail).

Look up dice sliding, and it's a little biased to use yourself, because theoretically you would be getting better as time went on.

(I just ran a 3 dice attack on the battlesim. At around 1000 rolls it stabilizes to a fairly reliable point.)

4 dice would take more. As would defense dice. But let's worry only about 3 dice attacks for now.

I like how topics can do quickly degenerate to disliking the things people say and they way they present it, rather than actually working to find a solution. Idk why need multiple posts complaining about someone disagreeing with the data presented. I think a better solution is to find BETTER data, rather than start the internet hate!

Same things happens when I have disagreements with my wife. I might get in trouble for saying this, but...

Does this mean....

Forum Arguing = Married Couple arguing?

In that, it is usually pointless and ends with neither party actually agreeing? Well, at least a married couple that wants to stay married will generally have one party give in. On the forums we don't have to see each other every day and raise kids together!

I like how topics can do quickly degenerate to disliking the things people say and they way they present it, rather than actually working to find a solution. Idk why need multiple posts complaining about someone disagreeing with the data presented. I think a better solution is to find BETTER data, rather than start the internet hate!

Same things happens when I have disagreements with my wife. I might get in trouble for saying this, but...

Does this mean....

Forum Arguing = Married Couple arguing?

In that, it is usually pointless and ends with neither party actually agreeing? Well, at least a married couple that wants to stay married will generally have one party give in. On the forums we don't have to see each other every day and raise kids together!

And the only thing worse than the complaining posts are the posts complaining about the complaining posts!! Hehe

I like how topics can do quickly degenerate to disliking the things people say and they way they present it, rather than actually working to find a solution. Idk why need multiple posts complaining about someone disagreeing with the data presented. I think a better solution is to find BETTER data, rather than start the internet hate!

Same things happens when I have disagreements with my wife. I might get in trouble for saying this, but...

Does this mean....

Forum Arguing = Married Couple arguing?

In that, it is usually pointless and ends with neither party actually agreeing? Well, at least a married couple that wants to stay married will generally have one party give in. On the forums we don't have to see each other every day and raise kids together!

And the only thing worse than the complaining posts are the posts complaining about the complaining posts!! Hehe

Quoting yourself is also a little weird

I like how topics can do quickly degenerate to disliking the things people say and they way they present it, rather than actually working to find a solution. Idk why need multiple posts complaining about someone disagreeing with the data presented. I think a better solution is to find BETTER data, rather than start the internet hate!

Same things happens when I have disagreements with my wife. I might get in trouble for saying this, but...

Does this mean....

Forum Arguing = Married Couple arguing?

In that, it is usually pointless and ends with neither party actually agreeing? Well, at least a married couple that wants to stay married will generally have one party give in. On the forums we don't have to see each other every day and raise kids together!

Exactly, some people like cocoa crispies others prefer cocoa pebbles. To each his own if someone wants to believe dice cheating is a problem in xwing or that it could become a problem and that there should be new rules regarding it then that's fine. I have my own opinion on the matter however. In the end it's just a game, and that's what we should try and remember.

I like how topics can do quickly degenerate to disliking the things people say and they way they present it, rather than actually working to find a solution. Idk why need multiple posts complaining about someone disagreeing with the data presented. I think a better solution is to find BETTER data, rather than start the internet hate!

Same things happens when I have disagreements with my wife. I might get in trouble for saying this, but...

Does this mean....

Forum Arguing = Married Couple arguing?

In that, it is usually pointless and ends with neither party actually agreeing? Well, at least a married couple that wants to stay married will generally have one party give in. On the forums we don't have to see each other every day and raise kids together!

Exactly, some people like cocoa crispies others prefer cocoa pebbles. To each his own if someone wants to believe dice cheating is a problem in xwing or that it could become a problem and that there should be new rules regarding it then that's fine. I have my own opinion on the matter however. In the end it's just a game, and that's what we should try and remember.

Don't even start that. Cocoa crispies are crap unless you're making chocolate rice crispy treats. Cocoa pebbles are the far superior cereal.

I like how topics can do quickly degenerate to disliking the things people say and they way they present it, rather than actually working to find a solution. Idk why need multiple posts complaining about someone disagreeing with the data presented. I think a better solution is to find BETTER data, rather than start the internet hate!

Same things happens when I have disagreements with my wife. I might get in trouble for saying this, but...

Does this mean....

Forum Arguing = Married Couple arguing?

In that, it is usually pointless and ends with neither party actually agreeing? Well, at least a married couple that wants to stay married will generally have one party give in. On the forums we don't have to see each other every day and raise kids together!

Exactly, some people like cocoa crispies others prefer cocoa pebbles. To each his own if someone wants to believe dice cheating is a problem in xwing or that it could become a problem and that there should be new rules regarding it then that's fine. I have my own opinion on the matter however. In the end it's just a game, and that's what we should try and remember.

Don't even start that. Cocoa crispies are crap unless you're making chocolate rice crispy treats. Cocoa pebbles are the far superior cereal.

No way! Cocoa pebbles cut your mouth up and taste way too bland! Crispies reign supreme. Don't make me bust out national statistics on which is the favorite cereal!

I think a better solution is to find BETTER data

That's what I've been asking for the whole time.

Data that actually supports the idea that someone can control 3-4 X-Wing dice when they roll them. Instead we get videos linked to people trying to sell method of winning at craps, and then claims this proves it can be done.

Now lets consider what you'd need to do to cheat with X-Wing dice.

You would need to mark your dice in some way. X-Wing dice are not made with the same tolerance that Casino craps dice are. So you'd have to learn how each one rolls/bounces after impact. You'd also have to learn how much force it takes to influence that one die.

Then you'd have to do that with each die, and mark it somehow so you know which ones you're rolling. The mere fact that you're rolling 3-4 dice pretty much kills this already. Because each one is going to need a different amount of force. Effectively you'd have to roll each die by itself to exert any real control.

Then you'd have to know how they interact with the table. The problem there being that unlike a craps table, X-Wing tables are very, very variable. You can't know how level the table is, how much the floor slants, ect... You also can't know what surface you will be rolling on.

So...

If you have someone with marked dice, who rolls them one at a time, with the exact same motion, height from table, etc... but changes it for each die thrown, and spends 30+ minutes rolling them on each table before the tournament starts.

Then you should call the TO over to investigate. But anything short of that, and you have someone with as much control over the dice as a lucky coin does.

I think a better solution is to find BETTER data

That's what I've been asking for the whole time.Data that actually supports the idea that someone can control 3-4 X-Wing dice when they roll them. Instead we get videos linked to people trying to sell method of winning at craps, and then claims this proves it can be done.Now lets consider what you'd need to do to cheat with X-Wing dice.You would need to mark your dice in some way. X-Wing dice are not made with the same tolerance that Casino craps dice are. So you'd have to learn how each one rolls/bounces after impact. You'd also have to learn how much force it takes to influence that one die.Then you'd have to do that with each die, and mark it somehow so you know which ones you're rolling. The mere fact that you're rolling 3-4 dice pretty much kills this already. Because each one is going to need a different amount of force. Effectively you'd have to roll each die by itself to exert any real control.Then you'd have to know how they interact with the table. The problem there being that unlike a craps table, X-Wing tables are very, very variable. You can't know how level the table is, how much the floor slants, ect... You also can't know what surface you will be rolling on.So...If you have someone with marked dice, who rolls them one at a time, with the exact same motion, height from table, etc... but changes it for each die thrown, and spends 30+ minutes rolling them on each table before the tournament starts.Then you should call the TO over to investigate. But anything short of that, and you have someone with as much control over the dice as a lucky coin does.

Exactly, shorter than that even, it's not something xwingers need worry about. Be aware of things but know that your most likely not going to see it happen. No need for paranoia just have fun.

I agree that it's not something we should be super concerned about. I personally believe it is possible to increase your odds but not land exactly what you want. Whether possible or not, if your dice rolling habbit involves looking at the dice in your hands as you bounce them around till they're "just right" people are going think you have some secret technique. Find a new technique that doesn't bother people. Same reason I don't wear a shirt that says "I have a bomb" in the airport. It bothers people and you're going to have people judging you, right or wrong.