Sooooo I have a confession to make.. I wash my dice to remove any oils that have built up because I think it gives my dice better movement and randomization than my opponents oily dice is that ok? Also I wear cotton tshirts because I think it keeps me cooler than my opponent and I think it dramatically improves my rolling since I'm not as sweaty. Is this ok too? Just because you think your gaining an advantage by doing something doesn't mean you actually are. The rules do not say that you cannot place the dice in your hand a certain way or that your forced to roll a certain way or that your required to wear only certain types of material to events so I really don't see the problem here. Until ffg makes these mandates then as long as the dice are leaving their hand and bumping and rolling about don't worry about it.

*you're

Nice catch...anyways the video shows a 6 sided dice not an 8 sided. Also the only dice that would really benefit from "enhanced dice rolling" (if that's what we want to call it) would be green since there are a lot less ways to modify them. Also knowing how to roll green dice would be completely different from the red dice since the sides are different so you would be noticing a big change in how they roll each dice. Even with all of that, the dice landing on the table changes everything. 6 sided dice have a lot more surface area to land on to stabilize whereas 8 sided have significantly less surface area on each side and are triangular vs square. This gives them a lot more variability when landing on a table since as the dice rolls more towards a tip of the triangle the weight of the dice has a greater chance of flipping it vs a square dice with a long straight edge where the force is distributed more evenly along the entire side. You can see the difference by setting a 6 sided flat on a surface and an 8 sided. Press the edge of the 6 sided so as to flip it and see how much force is required. Now do the same with the 8 sided and you should notice a significantly less amount of force is required to flip the 8 sided. This means that you would need to be able to control not only the speed of the spin but also the speed at which the dice are thrown. Also would have to factor in the type of material they are being rolled against or on (hard surface vs soft spongy surface) since each will either slow or speed up the rotation of the dice. I agree 6 sided can be manipulated, 8 sided dice not so much as well as greens are different then reds.

Ok, so it'd be harder. Is that synonomys with impossible now?

Did I say that *I* could do it? No, I said it was possible and then no less than two real world examples were shown of people rigging dice rolls using otherwise fair dice. I get that you REALLY want to believe that it can't be done but it can be.

I am still eagerly awaiting a link to someone who has demonstrated getting dice rolls that deviate from the norm in any kind of statistically significant way.

I am still eagerly awaiting a link to someone who has demonstrated getting dice rolls that deviate from the norm in any kind of statistically significant way.

More to the point it has to be someone who can do that with both 3 and 4, 8 sided dice from a X-Wing core set. That some people claim to have done it with 2 6 siders is hardly proof you can do it with 3-4 8 siders.

I am still eagerly awaiting a link to someone who has demonstrated getting dice rolls that deviate from the norm in any kind of statistically significant way.

More to the point it has to be someone who can do that with both 3 and 4, 8 sided dice from a X-Wing core set. That some people claim to have done it with 2 6 siders is hardly proof you can do it with 3-4 8 siders.

I'd still be happy to see some kind of statistical data demonstrating that dice cheating is possible, even if it's with two D6s.

I searched around the web, and ended up on a bunch of forum discussions mostly regarding dice setting in craps. Never found anything close to statistical data, just a bunch of people claiming that they can do it or have seen/heard of someone who could. What's particularly funny to me was that some of the people who said they had some success would say how sometimes they're "off their game" or their "concentration was broken" and they have "cold streaks"... Which just reaks of confirmation bias.

Which just reaks of confirmation bias.

True, I've looked into it myself, and found it is at best a 'he said, she said' kind of thing. There's people out there who claim they can do it. But there's also people out there who have claimed to prove that their system doesn't really work.

What lacks however is any sort of actual statistically valid proof of being able to control dice. Everyone who claims they can do this, has classes, books and videos they'd be happy to sell you to teach you their method...

Which just reaks of confirmation bias.

True, I've looked into it myself, and found it is at best a 'he said, she said' kind of thing. There's people out there who claim they can do it. But there's also people out there who have claimed to prove that their system doesn't really work.What lacks however is any sort of actual statistically valid proof of being able to control dice. Everyone who claims they can do this, has classes, books and videos they'd be happy to sell you to teach you their method...

Soooo kind of like Bigfoot or nessy. Oh ya people have seen them but the evidence is just not there.

You're right, I have seen no actual recordings of results. I think setting up a camera with some image processing could take care of the recording of results.

Any college Graduate or Doctorate students out there need a dissertation topic? I'm looking at it from on Engineering standpoint where we can prove that a machine can be built to produce statistically better results, etc etc.

It'd be neat if someone could model the behavior of dice rolling. Some mathematical formula even for a single dice could be useful, and could be rather interesting to model, and relevant for a lot of people's interests.

Nightshrike posted a video if a guy literally calling all of his rolls.

Here, let me help you find the others. http://m.youtube.com/results?q=cheating%20dice%20roll&sm=3

Nightshrike posted a video if a guy literally calling all of his rolls.

Yes because there's no way someone would upload a youtube video that hasn't been doctored or altered in anyway... Especially when they're selling their method.

Nightshrike posted a video if a guy literally calling all of his rolls.

Here, let me help you find the others. http://m.youtube.com/results?q=cheating%20dice%20roll&sm=3

So... When I get home tonight, I'll film myself holding dice weird and rolling them.

Then I'll add a voice over where I explain my weird grip and call out the results - you know, once I know what the results actually are.

If I do this, will you buy me eBook on dice cheating? It's only 6 easy payments of 19.99$!

Also, look at these awesome basketball trick shots some kids pulled off!

With my eBook "Basketball trick shots in 21 days", you too can be this awesome - all for the low, low cost of 49.95!

What about the other case I mentioned linked to?

But that don't count either because reasons.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dice_control

Here's the Wikipedia article that explains why they have the rubber pyramids on the sides of a craps table. Hint: It's because otherwise you can cheat the roll. (They even explain the mechanics behind it)

Its called moving the goal posts, it's like organizations asking for proof of evolution and offering a prize no one will ever get the money because they constantly change their minds about what constitutes proof.

You asked for demonstrations you got them, now either prove they are fake or hush and accept dice manipulation is possible, don't move the goal posts it's dishonest.

You asked for demonstrations you got them

Pretty sure we always asked for proof, not just youtube video that is as much proof as a wikipedia article.

So, no moving of any goalposts, just people offering up highly questionable "proof". Oh and also, it's always been required that someone can prove it with 3-4 X-Wing dice not 6 siders.

Ok, and Phil Ivey? And the other case I mentioned linked to?

But those don't count either because reasons.

Edit: Ninja'd

He accused you of moving the goalposts and in your reply you moved the goalposts on the meaning of proof.

He accused you of moving the goalposts and in your reply you moved the goalposts on the meaning of proof.

Perhaps you should look up that term, or find a post where someone said they'd accept a youtube video of someone throwing 6 sided dice as proof.

You know, rather than statically valid testing using 8 sided dice.

Got it, facts and examples mean nothing against your gut.

You asked for demonstrations you got them

Pretty sure we always asked for proof, not just youtube video that is as much proof as a wikipedia article.

So, no moving of any goalposts, just people offering up highly questionable "proof". Oh and also, it's always been required that someone can prove it with 3-4 X-Wing dice not 6 siders.

If video evidence is questionable, and articles aren't enough, then it certainly can't be proven that the "1000 rolls" experiment was performed and successful either, since any video taken of those 1000 rolls would suddenly be suspect. It seems that no evidence provided would ever measure up to the nebulous standards that are apparently required.

Dice controlnis possible.

Nobody in their right mind is going to use it for X-wing when they can use it for real financial gain. And nobody is going to take the time necessary to learn to do so with X-Wing dice because they're so vastly different from 6 siders. I'm sorry. I know the nerd stereotypes. But every single person I know who plays this game is employed or in school. They have families or other hobbies. They do not have the time or energy to learn to manipulate this games custom dice.

Stop being paranoid. Believeing in X-Wing dice savants is about the same as believing in magic. They're equally unlikely. And if they exist. Whatever. Dice don't decide the game. They contribute. But the better smarter player will win more often than the lucly one.

Got it, facts and examples mean nothing against your gut.

You provide actual facts and I'll consider them. So far you've done no such thing.

And again, any proof would have to be with 8 sided dice not 6 sided. That is the standard we've asked for the whole time.

The only moving of goalposts here are on the side of the people who claim it's possible, because they point to "evidence" that doesn't actually apply, and is rejected by a lot of people in the craps community itself.

Thread summary:

Prove it!!!

Prove it!!!

Prove it!!!

Prove it!!!

link

That could totally be faked!

A court case, a casino manager, numerous videos.

Go troll elsewhere.

That could totally be faked!

Yes because we should simply accept a video posted on youtube by someone who is selling something...

A video that doesn't prove anything in regards to this discussion in the first place.

Might as well say that a mangled brown bear pelt is proof of Bigfoot, that can be yours for the low price of $50.