So I was thinking, you know when you or your opponent accidentally bumps knocks/tips a ship and you can never really quite get back the original positioning. Sometimes an inconclusive effect happens as a result of the bump. Perhaps a ship is in arc now that wasn't before or vice versa, or a ship may or may not have been on an obstacle. When the decision is so close as to be unclear I have seen people rule it down to a dice roll which is reasonable. However, in the case of an indecision that arises as a result of some kind of bump nudge, I think the ruling ought to go against the player which caused the bump. What say you?

"Caused" ? Both players cause each bump in most cases.

"Caused" ? Both players cause each bump in most cases.

Sorry, when I say "bump" I am not just referring to the event when two ships collide but also such instances when one's hand accidentally hits another ship when measuring ranges etc.. Some times the contact made is certainly caused by a single person.

Fly causal. When both are happy with the replace great. If there is an impass role some dice.

How long are you suppose to "fly casual" ?

I've read thread / articles about 40k players and their ruler battles, that's why I like predetermined measuring devices. Everytime I watch tourney videos and see dice fly across table and hit things, or constant bumps of models.

I assume every milometer counts, let alone having your opponent touch your models and re-position them.

Ah. I thought you meant that a maneuver was attempted and you found that the ship couldn't actually move at all and were trying to get it back to its original place.

If you read the tourney rules it tells you exactly what happens in the situation you're describing. The person who bumped puts it back. The person who didn't bump decides the final resting place of the ship. Fly Casual and all that, and you really should both agree. But in the end the rules say the non-bumper makes the final call.

I had this situation come up at a store champ. My opponent had to take his decimator off the peg, but the peg was still there. Somehow my brain forgot this and when I unconsciously waved my hand through the supposedly empty space above the base I knocked his decimator peg and stand about 15 feet away. I put it back, he adjusted it, per the rules.

I actually agree with this, although I think we should say tipping or jostling instead of bumping to distinguish it from the game term. This would prevent anyone from "jostling for advantage" if they can never benefit from jostling a ship's position on the table.

If both players were at fault for moving the ship or were touching the ships when it got jostled, I'd just do a coin flip.

One trick that I use is that if I suspect that the following measuring using a range ruler or maneuver will be very close (and critical), I ask my opponent, before I do the maneuver, do hold down the miniature or asteroid that could get accidentally nudged. Simple, easy and avoids lots of potential ill feelings

Technically speaking, "bump" is not a game term either. I'm not trying to single you out, Tvboy (because this applies to pretty much everyone on the forums), but the term "bump" has always bugged me. "Overlapping bases" and "touching" are game terms, but not "bumping." If we all used the proper game terms, nobody would have an issue with the original post in this thread.

Those official FFG maps don't help much. not enough texture.

Either ways some local players spray their mats with spray adhesive and then let it dry. The adhesive dries clear and the spray provides enough texture to stop bases from sliding all over the place.

As for bumping tipping and sliding the miniatures it happens. The official ruling is to try and put it back on its place as close as possible. Both players have to agree and if not TO.

How long are you suppose to "fly casual" ?

I've read thread / articles about 40k players and their ruler battles, that's why I like predetermined measuring devices. Everytime I watch tourney videos and see dice fly across table and hit things, or constant bumps of models.

I assume every milometer counts, let alone having your opponent touch your models and re-position them.

If you're bothered too much by this and "fly casual" doesn't answer it, I suggest trying heX-Wing. It gets rid of templates and runs the game on a hex map.

So I was thinking, you know when you or your opponent accidentally bumps knocks/tips a ship and you can never really quite get back the original positioning. Sometimes an inconclusive effect happens as a result of the bump. Perhaps a ship is in arc now that wasn't before or vice versa, or a ship may or may not have been on an obstacle. When the decision is so close as to be unclear I have seen people rule it down to a dice roll which is reasonable. However, in the case of an indecision that arises as a result of some kind of bump nudge, I think the ruling ought to go against the player which caused the bump. What say you?

If you check out the current FAQ on page 6 under 'mistakes' you will find there is already a rule for this:

"If a player knocks a ship over, he must endeavour to replace it exactly as he found it. If there is any disagreement about its placement, the player's opponent has final say over its position, though he must attempt to match the ship's original position."

However, in the case of an indecision that arises as a result of some kind of bump nudge, I think the ruling ought to go against the player which caused the bump. What say you?

Must not which-hunt. Must not which-hunt. Must not which-hunt. Must not which-hunt...

How long are you suppose to "fly casual" ?

I've read thread / articles about 40k players and their ruler battles, that's why I like predetermined measuring devices. Everytime I watch tourney videos and see dice fly across table and hit things, or constant bumps of models.

I assume every milometer counts, let alone having your opponent touch your models and re-position them.

What 40k players do is irrelavant to me, save that I hope they stick to their hobby if they are going to act that way. I've only had friendly times playing X-wing, so that likely biases my opinion. Should you find yourself in a position where your opponent is cheating and you can't just pack up your stuff, then it's probably a tourney and there should be a TO and rules about that sort if thing. If you are playing with friends then Fly Casual should always work. If your friends are horrible 40k stereotypes, I pity you, have a beer.

While it may be nice to say the ruling should go against the person who disturbed something's position that may become very difficult to determine a round or two later. What's more is that it could change where the nudge may give the ship an arc but that same nudge will put the ship on a rock when it should have gone around it.

Mind you, Im not a tournament player yet. If the bump was my fault i take the worst possible outcome of it. Say i bump an opponents ship measuring my range, and if its a question if the ship is range 1 or 2, i always take the range 2 since i cause a bump. No need for dice, ill take the dock. Flying casual and such.

Now on the other hand, i was recently playing a 2 v 2 200 pt game and an opponent knocked one of my ships over big time. After a movement an arc was in question and no reperations were made. My opponent was like nope, out of arc. Next shot.

So not everyone flies casual. But hey. Still a great game

Totally agree with the OP. This is why I also ask players to never place tokens on my ships. Because when they remove them from the ship in a furball this always happens.

In fact, I think if you bump the ship and it's not obvious where it goes back, if there is any question about firing arc and it's close you should automatically gain the arc to shoot the target. Since you might have had him when it was bumped, and now you may not.

eagletsi

I don't think an offical rule needs to be made on the subject. But I think every player should be working to make each game the best game it can be. If you think the ship was out of arc because the player managed a great manuever and then bumped your ship by accident you shouldn't be trying to press that advantage either. Accidents happen. Play a fair and fun game. Screw trying to gain temporary advantage because your opponent is clumsy. That's petty.