Listened to the part of the latest Nova Squadron Radio where they discuss how the Hound's Tooth title and the Pup will affect MOV. They discussed two options

1. The entire points for the YV-666 are still on the table until the Pup is destroyed.

2. The entire points are scored when the YV goes down and the Pup becomes a "point-less" ship.

To me, the only thing that would make sense is this:

3. The Pup itself is worth 6 points MOV and all the other points on the YV are scored when it is destroyed.

Will this be explained in the accompanying rulebook or require day 1 FAQ? How much will this affect your desire to play with or against this title in timed MOV matches?

my prediction for destroying the pup:

already paid for that **** with the title, don't want to pay for it twice

It's way to early to speculate this.

We just need to be patient and I'm certain it will be covered before the release date. Why pull our hair out now?

Also- I'm not so certain the pup is cost less. What if the 6 point title is just the cost for having a ship that will definitely be in play late and has a modified deployment. Just looking at numbers non-objectively, your adding two hull upgrades and two shield upgrades to a ship. That would most likely cost more than just 6 points.

I think you've got the right of it, I really expect the Pup itself to be worth just 6 points (and those 6 come out of the YV cost). It's a pretty straightforward cost, it isn't like we're calculating total health/total points for partial costing per-hit; it's always a six point Title so it's always a six point Headhunter.

I can't really see FFG endorsing a scoring system whereby the total cost of the YV is kept in the one Headhunter, you'd have too much of a lead if it was still on the table at the end of the match (or if it goes to time). 6 points doesn't grant a full win, in case of otherwise-tied scores, so I think that's most likely.

To me, the only thing that would make sense is this:

3. The Pup itself is worth 6 points MOV and all the other points on the YV are scored when it is destroyed.

I hope its something like that. It keeping the whole Hound seems crazy!

It's way to early to speculate this.

We just need to be patient and I'm certain it will be covered before the release date. Why pull our hair out now?

I'm not sure you understand what we do here...

The cost of the Pup is associated with the YV-666. I am almost expecting zero MoV to be awarded until both are destroyed. But I am just guessing.

Well the way I see it, the Pup can contribute to your own MoV, and so should contribute to the opponent's MoV if they destroy it. 41+ points for destroying the Pup seems a bit steep, is the thing.

The cost of the Pup is associated with the YV-666. I am almost expecting zero MoV to be awarded until both are destroyed. But I am just guessing.

This is my guess as well. It provides strong reasons to play the title, which is otherwise kind of meh.(Yes, you get a super cheap Z-95, but it is unupgradeable, and requires the loss of most of your fleet to use. For 6 points it's an upgrade that isn't going to appear in many games, offers no increase in firepower, and is a Z-95. The least it can do is boost survivability some.

It may be that the points are something like 6+Pilot Skill, since the pilot will still be alive

Or,

the MOV system will be killed by the Pup. Together with the Hounds Tooth, there will be a completely new scoring system, with partial points, bonus points for achievements (oneshotting a full health, cloaked phantom with an Academy TIE, fielding only X-Wings (which will fix the X-Wing), ...).

Can I legally claim, that I was the first one who proposed that? Of course, it is really, really unlikely, but if they don't change it, noone will remember my post. But IF they change it, ... (I should've gone betting on a horse racing track, earning money)

...I'm not so certain the pup is cost less. What if the 6 point title is just the cost for having a ship that will definitely be in play late and has a modified deployment. Just looking at numbers non-objectively, your adding two hull upgrades and two shield upgrades to a ship. That would most likely cost more than just 6 points.

You're not adding two hull upgrades and two shield upgrades, though. You're adding another ship, but one that (as noted by Aminar) can't be used until you've already lost a big fraction of your list. And it's a Headhunter, which means we already have a pretty good idea of what its offensive contribution will look like.

So 6 points is either fair or a little on the expensive side. It's going to be a fun upgrade, but I'm not sure it'll be a competitive one.

Remember that the pup is not the same as adding another ship

Its pressence is not guaranteed and the upgrade is worthless if your ship does not DIE (ie literally THE worst thing that can happen). If you get the pup, great! You just handed your opponent 6 more points on a priority target

No word on whether or not its a good upgrade until I can get it on the table. The above is simply my justification for it not awarding MOV.

I think we have to wait and see the "deployment" rules before we can guess.

I think we have to wait and see the "deployment" rules before we can guess.

We don't need to know where on the board it ends up to knkw how it'll balance out for MOV.

what I want to know, is can you put upgrades on it?

I haven't seen anything but guesses as to no

edit:

also, we don't know the exact method, I think it will be: perform a boost from the hounds tooth. but , if you bump and cant perform the boos, do you lose the pup?

what I want to know, is can you put upgrades on it?

I haven't seen anything but guesses as to no

edit:

also, we don't know the exact method, I think it will be: perform a boost from the hounds tooth. but , if you bump and cant perform the boos, do you lose the pup?

The Pup isn't a "ship", it is an upgrade. As such, it scores points when the ship it is on is destroyed, so when the Hound's Tooth blows up it scores all of its points for MoV.

What it does do is let you avoid a full loss until the moment the Pup is destroyed, since you won't have left the table yet, and could even allow you the chance to pull a full win out of the game. It would look odd, a full 5 point win with 100 points (or whatever your list total was) lost vs. 100 points destroyed.

The Pup isn't a "ship", it is an upgrade. As such, it scores points when the ship it is on is destroyed, so when the Hound's Tooth blows up it scores all of its points for MoV.

What it does do is let you avoid a full loss until the moment the Pup is destroyed, since you won't have left the table yet, and could even allow you the chance to pull a full win out of the game. It would look odd, a full 5 point win with 100 points (or whatever your list total was) lost vs. 100 points destroyed.

How would it be worthless? It gives you another ship and gun when the HT is destroyed. If the Pup is not your last ship, you benefit from more shots coming from a ship they are not terribly motivated to destroy. If it is the last ship, they still have to blow it up to get the full 5 point match win (or survive to time). It is an escape ship after all, a last ditch effort to pull victory out. If the HT has gotten some poor shuttle or Deci down to a hull or two the Nashtah Pup could easily be the difference between a loss or a 5 point victory.

If the pilot transfers over to the Pup, this could actually be a pretty dangerous ship. Bossk is a monster, regardless of what he is flying. Even if it only gains the PS (assumed because of the asterisk) but not the EPT or Pilot ability, a PS 7 Z-95 could easily put out some real damage before it leaves the table.

The title is only 6 points after all. It is easily comparable to 6 points of "other" upgrades. The discussion reminds me of the discussion about R4-D6. Folks seem to focus on the low power level, rather than putting it into perspective vis-â-vis its point cost.

How is it worthless? It gives you another ship and gun when the HT is destroyed. If it isn't the last ship, you benefit from more shots coming from a ship they are not terribly motivated to destroy. If it is the last ship, they still have to blow it up to get the full 5 point match win. It is an escape ship after all, a last ditch effort to pull victory out. If the HT has gotten some poor shuttle or Deci down to a hull or two it could easily be the difference between a loss or a 5 point victory.

If the pilot transfers over to the Pup, this could actually be a pretty dangerous ship. Bossk is a monster, regardless of what he is flying. Even if it only gains the PS but not the EPT or Pilot ability, a PS 7 (or whatever) Z-95 could easily put out some real damage before it leaves the table.

The title is only 6 points after all. It is easily comparable to 6 points of "other" upgrades.

If it doesn't affect MOV in a competitive environment ther will be many many better options for those 6 points. Titles are meant to be useful or free. Not expensive and a liability.

The mechanic is fun. In aa non-score setting it'll be a lot of fun.

But in a competitive setting, it'll be worthless.

The Hound's Tooth triggers when the ship is destroyed. When you destroy a ship, you get all of its points added to your MOV.

I don't see how this is causing legitimate confusion. From the tournament rules:

Each player calculates his score by adding together the total squad point value of his opponent’s destroyed ships, including Upgrade cards equipped to those ships.

From the Hound's Tooth:

“After you are destroyed, before you are removed from the play area, you may deploy the Nashtah Pup ship. It cannot attack this round.“

Once the YV-666 is destroyed, it's counted as destroyed along with all the upgrades on it, and the Pup does not count towards MOV.

Now here's the real question. What happens when the Nashtah Pup is the only remaining ship on the board?

Aminar: I see where you are coming from but I disagree with your assessment of its usefulness. I think it would be worth 6 points as I described, no more or less. If it kept your opponent from scoring points as you suggest it would be extremely powerful, much more so than the points would indicate. Running it away to keep your opponent from scoring upwards of 25 points would turn an otherwise even game into a full win for you, by virtue of nothing more than you running your Pup away from the fight.

Edit: Tvboy explains my position exactly as far as rules justification. Whether or not the Pup is "worth" the 6 points operating in this manner is a matter of opinion, since it is very difficult to quantify. Regardless, it will be a fun mechanic.

The Hound's Tooth triggers when the ship is destroyed. When you destroy a ship, you get all of its points added to your MOV.

I don't see how this is causing legitimate confusion. From the tournament rules:

Each player calculates his score by adding together the total squad point value of his opponent’s destroyed ships, including Upgrade cards equipped to those ships.

From the Hound's Tooth:

“After you are destroyed, before you are removed from the play area, you may deploy the Nashtah Pup ship. It cannot attack this round.“

Once the YV-666 is destroyed, it's counted as destroyed along with all the upgrades on it, and the Pup does not count towards MOV.

Now here's the real question. What happens when the Nashtah Pup is the only remaining ship on the board?

And while it would be kind of powerful to let the Nashta Pup count for MOV, it's a Z-95 and you've crippled over a third of your opponents fleet. Mopping up from there should be easy unless your opponent was winning anyway.

Z-95s die fast and cannot run away quickly or effectively. They are not powerful.

Think on it. Whoch would you rather have.

The Outrider title or the Hounds Tooth title?

The Outrider title is wayyy better because it increases your firepower and adaptability through the entire game.(And you cannot include the cost of the cannon, it's worth its points even just for the forward arc.)

Late game effects are rarely worth their points.

How would it be worthless? It gives you another ship and gun when the HT is destroyed.

I did some rough math on it before recording the most recent NOVA episode.

In an untimed game where MoV isn't an issue, it is never going to be worth 6 points. This arises because the combat power of the two ships (Hound and Pup) add linearly, whereas the power of a squad is proportional to the number of ships squared.

The more expensive the mothership, the less attractive the Pup is. On the other extreme, if the Mothership was 0 points and was immediately removed from play and popped out the Pup, then obviously the Pup is a 6 point discount. The hypothetical break-even point where it would be worth adding the Pup would be if the Mothership only costed 9 points.

In this case, all else being equal, the combined combat power of the two ships would be:

(9/12)^2 + 1 = 1.5625

Compared to a single 15 point ship:

(15/12)^2 = 1.5625

The Hound is obviously worth well north of 9 points, so I don't expect the Pup to be worth much on it. You're better off getting 6 points of a cannon upgrade or something equivalent.

Now, in a real game in a timed match with MoV, it could be worth it to get the Pup title. If you are losing but the time is close, fly your ship around the board and don't let your opponent kill it, and you can just win on time instead. Personally I don't like Point Fortresses to begin with, and see that as pure cheese, but it is legal (pending how FFG rules MoV scored of course).