Hello,

During our last game, we had diificulties managing 2 situations involving the Torchbearer. His ability says : "If you are defeated by a creature, you suffer all the penalties but you may immediately attack the creature again, instead of ending your turn. You may only do this once per turn."

1/ The character with the Torchbearer is defeated by the Tuskgore. Its ability says : "If you are defeated, in addition to losing 1 life, roll 1 die and move that many spaces counter-clockwise.". So the character moves, but can attack the Tuskgore again, even if they are no longer on the same space ?

2/ If the character with the Torchbearer is the Amazon, is it true that she can fight in battle up to four times ? Her ability says : "If you are defeated or have a stand-off in battle, you may ignore the result and immediately fight that battle again. Any effects, special abilities, Objects, or Spells used or cast in the first battle remain in effect for the second battle. You must accept the result of the second battle."

The sequence would be :

- First battle is a defeat (or stand-off), use Amazon's ability for a second battle.

- Second battle is a defeat, use Torchbearer's ability for a third battle.

- Third battle is a defeat (or stand-off), use Amazon's ability for a fourth battle.

Thanks in advance !

I'm not sure about the Tuskgore, sorry. My instinct is that to redo the fight, you have to be able to legally initiate the fight in the first place, which would not be the case if you were moved to a different space. I'm going to go with the Torchbearer being incompatible with defeat by the Tuskgore.

As for the Amazon, the answer is debatable but I personally agree with you. The debate is over what happens when a character's ability and cards are both triggered in response to the same thing. Do the cards and ability compete for priority? My view on the debate is that cards compete for priority, but abilities do not (i.e. the ability has either greater or lesser priority than the cards which has to be defined on a case-by-case basis).

For example, the Divine Intervention Spell turns defeat into a stand-off; the Amazon's ability turns defeat into a redo. This is a situation where a card and ability both trigger in response to defeat and appear to compete for priority. One viewpoint is that you may use either the Amazon's ability or the Spell, but not both (equal priority). Another viewpoint, and the one I currently follow, is that the ability and Spell have different priorities. In this case, I think the ability has greater priority.

I believe if she is defeated, she may first use her ability to redo battle; if defeated again, she may cast Divine Intervention (or Preservation, etc). I don't think she has to choose one or the other. Similarly, I think she may choose to redo battle before she uses the Torchbearer - so she may fight, redo, Torchbearer, as you say.

Now even if you agree with that, there remains whether the Amazon may use her ability once again after the Torchbearer. I would say yes, because the Torchbearer doesn't say "you may redo battle" (in which case you could argue that it overrides the Amazon's ability). It says, "you may attack the creature again," which implies it's almost like a fresh encounter.

So I think: fight, redo, Torchbearer, fight, redo is OK. Sorry for the long explanation but it actually has a lot of points buried in the question and is certainly open to discussion!

1/ The character with the Torchbearer is defeated by the Tuskgore. Its ability says : "If you are defeated, in addition to losing 1 life, roll 1 die and move that many spaces counter-clockwise.". So the character moves, but can attack the Tuskgore again, even if they are no longer on the same space ?

It's nonsense, but this is how I would play it following what's written on the cards. You suffer all penalties (including being moved) but you may attack the creature again. But you're not on the same space anymore, so any goodies guarded by Tuskgore cannot be picked up if you defeat it in the second battle.

2/ If the character with the Torchbearer is the Amazon, is it true that she can fight in battle up to four times ? Her ability says : "If you are defeated or have a stand-off in battle, you may ignore the result and immediately fight that battle again. Any effects, special abilities, Objects, or Spells used or cast in the first battle remain in effect for the second battle. You must accept the result of the second battle."

The sequence would be :

- First battle is a defeat (or stand-off), use Amazon's ability for a second battle.

- Second battle is a defeat, use Torchbearer's ability for a third battle.

- Third battle is a defeat (or stand-off), use Amazon's ability for a fourth battle.

I also agree about the Amazon combining her ability with the Torchbearer. Once we used to believe that abilities using "you must" didn't leave any other option but following that instruction. Then, FAQ came with a vengeance and told us that the Prophetess can use the Orb of Knowledge to replace a card she replaced with her ability, even though that ability said "which you must encounter".

I think the Amazon falls under the same category. Torchbearer allows to make a second attack against the same creature, so it's another battle entirely and you might use Amazon's ability again, if needed.